Scanning:X-posted from RP Discussion

[Clegane]

Reposting this here because I don't really want to derail an overly-lengthy thread already building in the RP Discussion forum.

Personally..and for what little my opinion is worth, I rather feel that the Scan echo should be removed from the game entirely.

Its not like hunting where you're crouching down and scouring over tracks. Its not as though you're suddenly standing up and turning over tables and knocking aside barrels and shit to 'seek out' someone hidden behind them.

Its a -perception- skill reflective of the gradual honing of an instinctual ability to notice something that a 'less trained' eye would fail to observe.
I've never really been able to figure out how and why Scan was so -obvious- and easy to detect.

Many years ago, Listen used to give a room echo, as well. They removed it (thank christ), but kept the scan echo in for reasons I still don't quite fathom. I'm also not entirely sure why one must stand up to scan, as though it were completely impossible to observe a room from a seated position. Again, Listen used to require standing, as well..but they augmented that.

I assume there's a good reason somewhere for making Scan so clunky...I just can't sort out what it is.

[Agent_137]

ever play thief?

Notice when the guards are "scanning" they are looking around corners and looking hard into shadows?

it's noticeable, while listen might only include turning your head some.

At least, that's how I envision it.

If it didn't echo, everyone could spam scan...which would be lame.

[Armaddict]

I agree with Agent.

While it is spammy, I picture scan as an easily recognizeable look around the room.  He's -obviously- searching.  Not the subtle glance at a dark corner or anything like that.

[Clegane]

I guess that's a disparity between my perceptions and others', then.

I always viewed Scan as more the equivalent of making a D20 Spot check. It represents a natural state of heightened awareness developed over the course of long-time exposure to threatening situations.

The game already HAS a Search skill that represents taking a longer, more analytical assessment of the room.

I never really viewed Scan as being any different from Listen, really.

[Lazloth]

As an advocate for reducing spam (I further believe look echoes should be removed), I'm all for Clegane's idea.

[Seeker]

I fall in the middle territory, and have stayed there since the last time this topic was discussed in detail.

I don't see the scan echo as out of line.  I can see it as being a noticable, active operation, but I don't agree with the necessity of having to stand to begin it.

I think it has been agreed upon that it is -not- as if you are tossing the room, flipping chairs over and pulling down the tapestries.

Currently, it works as a type of code oddity.  Many people start their scan in some out of the way place, furtively, before entering a more busy scene.  Its kinda like sneaking off to rip a juicy one before returning casually back to the party.

[Agent_137]

Currently, it works as a type of code oddity.  Many people start their scan in some out of the way place, furtively, before entering a more busy scene.  Its kinda like sneaking off to rip a juicy one before returning casually back to the party.

to me, this screams code abuse, not code oddity... but i'm no staffer.

[Tamarin]

Since scan already has a penalty to use it (you have to be standing), I really don't think it deserves an echo.  You are -not- searching the area, despite what anyone says.  You are making a quick visual scan of your surroundings, not romping around like a shadow-chasing maniac.

[Bestatte]

The one thing that really gets me - annoys me some days, amuses me others:

Is when NPCs auto-scan. Like in certain shops, when you type LIST and have 3 pages worth of stuff to mull through, but before your eyes manage to get down to #5 on the list, the NPC has scanned three times already and you have to type LIST all over again.

I'd love to know - WTF is he looking for, and why does he keep scanning? And - if he DOES find something - who's he gonna tell? He's an NPC for crying out loud, and I don't know of any PC who has a command that will order him to report his findings.

That's also a pet peeve with the guard exit NPCs. You guarded it twice already - no one went through. MY scan is good enough that if someone got through I'd have noticed - I'm tellin ya - there's no one there damnit, so stop guarding and unguarding the damned door.

I don't really have any major issue with the scan skill echoing. I just wish NPCs who -can- scan, be totally maxed out with permascan running so they don't have to spam the room every 20 freaking seconds.

[Delirium]

I agree with the scan-echo removement.

Besides, nothing screams "I'M A VERY SPECIFIC TYPE OF CLASS" (even though they aren't the only ones that get it) than "so and so scans the area intently."

[jmordetsky]

I'm thinking the solution is to only echo to the user who scans and to change the echo to:

You begin scanning the area. OOC: Please note this command *should* be followed with an emote suitable to your current environment.

And if IMMS see abuse...start making little marks on the account. I just hate this particular canned emote. Scan seems to have different meanings to different people, as it should. This would allow to express interpretations.

If you are standing up and tearing through a crowd of people searching for the hooded person who slipped away...emote it. If you are quietly observing faces while seated in the Gaj, don't...or do...

And make an hemote.

[wizturbo]

I think scan should echo.  But I think there should be a scan <emote> so that when using the command you can have an emote replace the current scan auto-emote.

[Callisto]

I was once shadowing a someone who worked for Borsail.

He went to a house in the commons where a cloaked woman was waiting and they both went inside. I expected some of that behind the scenes action and some juicy secrets, but what I got was some raunchy mudsex emotes.

This is where it becomes relevant to the discussion.

Just after his glorious entrance to her tunnel of bliss (his term), he stood, scanned, rested and they continued on as if nothing had happened.

This one of the many reasons I'm fine with the scan echo.

[Agent_137]

roffles!

[Delirium]

I think scan should echo.  But I think there should be a scan <emote> so that when using the command you can have an emote replace the current scan auto-emote.

I think this is a very reasonable compromise.

In other words, I like it.

[X-D]

So, I was going to post, but Clegane sums it up.

I guess that's a disparity between my perceptions and others', then.

I always viewed Scan as more the equivalent of making a D20 Spot check. It represents a natural state of heightened awareness developed over the course of long-time exposure to threatening situations.

The game already HAS a Search skill that represents taking a longer, more analytical assessment of the room.

I never really viewed Scan as being any different from Listen, really.

Oh and.

Besides, nothing screams "I'M A VERY SPECIFIC TYPE OF CLASS" (even though they aren't the only ones that get it) than "so and so scans the area intently

Amen, All my chars scan someplace else just for that reason.
I know that a staff member or even other players would get annoyed if my char walked around saying "Oh, Hey, I'm a (insert guild)" all the time, and it's the same thing with scan echo.


And Lazloth had to get his two cents in on look echos...so, I will too, I think look echos should go away except for the looker and the lookee, I see no reason why the person being looked at would not notice.

Oh, um and Adjacent room combat echos...grin.

[jhunter]

Yep, I don't think scan echoes belong...no standing to scan either (If your really looking that hard then you should see them exactly how they look right off and not *A shadow is here.* or blur, and it shouldn't stay in effect while moving.)
Look echoes only to the looker and the lookee...I also agree with that one as well.

[Ghost]

I vote for both scan echo remove, and need to stand remove.

Adjacent room combat echoes would ruin the sparring halls.

[wizturbo]

To add to my previous idea:

If you scan with an emote that obviously doesn't indicate your looking at anything, and you get caught, you should be warned and then possibly have the skill removed.  This would prevent abuse, only reason i worry about this, is I believe a popular non-karma guild might have access to scan.

For instance:

Acceptable scan emote: scan looks over the tavern with a watchful eye.

Unacceptable scan emote:  scan scratches his ass.

*grins*

[Quirk]

My main gripe with removing the echo is that as things are, scan is very frequently poorly roleplayed, and the echo lets you have a good idea of which people are trustworthy with it and which are not.

If you're seated with your buddies knocking back a beer, you should *not* have your scan activated and be searching the shadows. Whether we decide scan requires moving round the room looking people over or is merely a state of heightened awareness, neither case is consonant with the eye contact demands of normal conversation. I rather dread seeing anyone using scan in a tavern who's not there as either an important person's guard or a militia member, as usually it's the prelude to them embarking on a course of RP completely incompatible with what they're codedly doing. If scan was a momentary thing that let you peer into the shadows for a scant second or so and then cut out, the RP might be justifiable, but that's not the way it works.

Your body language is going to change when you're giving the darker crevices of your surroundings your full attention. Ideally, that would be discernable through a changed ldesc or something to anyone who wandered past you. But as people throw little more than a passing anodyne emote out to indicate a cursory glance before kicking back with their buddies, I'd rather have some indication that they were in fact scanning the room than having none at all.

Quirk

[sarahjc]

I also agree with Clegane on this.. Why echo looking around? Because that is what you are doing, just checking around briefly, not everyone is going to notice.

But if scan does not echo, I think it would get spammy and difficult for the sneaks out there.  So. I say, take off the echo.. But either make scan a less effective tool, or make hide and sneak stronger ones.  

Also I would limit scan to once every two-three minutes or so. Perhaps with a message when you try to hit it again that says, "You just looked around, maybe you should search the area if you are trying to find someone you didn't see." I mean if you are constantly looking around like a paranoid freak, people will take notice.  With the search command, you can emote accordingly and have a better chance at looking for someone.

Could work something like this

For scan:

No emote
/scan

Or

emote walks into the room and glances over the nearby tables as she walks to the bar.
/scan


For Search:

Emote before taking a seat at the bar, me takes a noticeably careful look around the tavern, paying close attention to several of the darker corners and hooded figures before settling onto a stool.

/search

Or

Emote storming into the tavern with a look of furious anger,  me begins almost immediately to search the room, pulling hooded individuals to their feet and ordering the men flanked around her to search behind doorways and darkened halls.  

/search

[Angela Christine]

As far as I know, Search doesn't look for hidden people, just hidden doors.

AC

[sarahjc]

New use for the search command?

[mansa]

As far as I know, Search doesn't look for hidden people, just hidden doors./quote]

New use for the search command?

Why have two commands that do the same thing?  I don't think search should change from it's function of finding those 'sekret' and 'hidden' exits and trapdoors and rooftops to include finding hidden people.

I'm sort of leaning on the side of people saying that it shouldn't echo.  I always consider it like 'listen'.  Perhaps, it could be modified to have the same flags as 'listen', in that you can "SCAN ON!" and "SCAN OFF!"

I'd also like to bring up..  I'd like "SCAN" to be accessable through a subclass, much like "LISTEN" is now.

I'd also like it, if "SCAN" was affected by the room type.   Then again...  the percentage of success isn't variable, it only is set when you type the skill.  So, it's not likely that it will be changed in that aspect.  At least, to my knowledge.

I remember, back in the day you had to be standing to 'barter' with people.  I think...I would like 'scan' to be a 'standing room only' skill.  It just seems iffy when you can be sitting at the bar and notice someone under a table on the other side of the room.

[MSM]

I think scan should echo.  But I think there should be a scan <emote> so that when using the command you can have an emote replace the current scan auto-emote.

I think this is a very reasonable compromise.

In other words, I like it.

I dig this as well..

And ROLF Callisto.