Force Feed Mansa

[mansa]

I think it would be a neat addition to the code, if you could force people at a 'critical' position to eat and drink items.

'Critical' is when your hit points range from 0 to -10.

It would help those who manage to find someone who's mostly dead, starving, and they wish to give them some water, but the mostly dead person can't drink themselves, because they are in a critical position.

Or to give someone bad poisons to kill.

[Bestatte]

YEAH! See, I always said, Mansa is a genius. Crazy, but a genius.

SMOOCH

[Cameron0202]

Force feed Mansa.... What would I feed Mansa? Umm okay force feed Mansa banana.


Umm I don't think this code would bring much to the game because if someone is dying let em die. And if you could force feed poison we might have twinkies run into a tavern and throw pills into templars mouths. I dunno, I don't see it being worth the codeing. Yet I suppose it would be kool to be able to save someone who is like almost dead on the street by giving water... I just don't see it as a NEED!

[mansa]

If you could force people at a 'critical' position to eat and drink items.

I said CRITICAL!  CRITICAL!

: wacks you with a ruler.

READ!

[flurry]

Drink, yes.   Eat, no.

[wizturbo]

Pour <liquid> <person>

Have the code check to make sure the person is in critical condition, otherwise you can't do it.

[Carnage]

I like this idea. It covers situations ranging from discovering a cure in your back pocket as the person is just about to die to giving them water as they're ready to become a corpse.

Normally, I'd think to just wish up, but poison can work fast, perhaps faster than a storyteller trying to get permission from a highlord or whoever to intervene and save the day. And ressurrections aren't easily handed out.

[Lazloth]

Reference the past.
http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=365

[Kalden]

I like the idea, but the additional ability to forcefeed an unconscious people would be nice. However, I'm not sure about the realism of that. Wouldn't the incapitated person just choke?

[Cenghiz]

Yes! Forcefeeding if someone's unconscious in some way, sleeping, stunned, coma, -hp, even subdued if coders can would rock!

>emote walks to ~noble who's held by ~elf
>say (raising ~vial, grinning) This is poison, merchant.. It kills you with spasms, with pain that you can't even imagine. I'll pour it down your throat if you don't tell us where the damned steel katana is.
The noble fancypants shakes his head frowning.
>say (letting out a sigh) OK.. It's your choice.
>emote holds %noble chin pressing, forcing ^noble mouth to open
>emote pours ~vial down %noble throat
>feed noble vial
>get tablet belt
>say (raising ~tablet between his two fingers) OK.. You see the antidote.. We'll see how much you can stand pain, Lord Fancypants...

... also when nosave is on, for some foreplay..

>emote puts ~slice in %woman mouth
>feed woman slice
The woman grins, her eyes closed, her breathing becoming faster..
>say -grinning Yeah baby.. eat these, then I'll eat you up...

[Gilvar]

Maybe have a chance to inadvertantly choke them.

You attempt to cram a piece of crusty bread into Mansa's gaping unconcious mouth, but manage only to lodge it deep in his throat.

Mansa's face turns blue.

Mansa dies.

[Pungee]

You killed Mansa!

[SpyGuy]

Well, maybe not insta-death if it fails but a chance of failure makes sense.  You run out of water as they spit it up, waste your last tablet or fail to get them to swallow that poison.

I also like the idea of delivery while someone is subdued but I don't know if that would be too open to unfair play.

[X-D]

I also like the idea of delivery while someone is subdued but I don't know if that would be too open to unfair play.

What could possibly be unfair play on that? No, really, think about it, nothing would be the answer, Only thing it would do is open up more RP options for things and be supported by code, the person doing the subduing could not forcefeed, it would need be somebody else, and if one person has you subdued and he has a friend and they want you dead or out cold, then dead or out cold you will be, with or without the ability to force feed.

Course I think you should be able to take stuff off people who are subdued also, sorta annoying to have to stop a torture or something, OOC hey, could you remove that pack, release, wait till pack removed, subdue and continue. Also would allow for a correct feeling to play when the pc militia/templar decides to search your char, your char would be and feel helpless, just as they should/would if real.

Anyway, I like the idea, specialy with a chance of failier.

[Northlander]

Soon Kali Ma will rule the world!

I'm still not sure how often a situation where this is needed comes up, and how big a coding issue it is. If it's rather rare, and troublesome to code, wishing up for an imm's help might be a more staff-efficient way of dealing with the issue.

Have you ever been in a situation where you'd want to codedly feed someone unconscious food, or make them codedly drink water, where it can't be solved with emotes? If a critically hurt person died of either dehydration or starvation, and wishing up failed to get you any help, I think it'd make sense to play it as if their body simply wasn't in any shape to pull through it, no matter how much you emoted feeding them.

How about a situation where you'd want to codedly feed poison to an unconscious person? There are poisons designed for other things than killing, so I suppose this does come up a bit.

Feeding antidotes to an unconscious person I can see coming up quite often, and I see that as the main argument for this idea.

Would it work on sleeping and stun-loss unconscious as well as those critically injured? And, Indiana Jones aside, would the extra work required to let you force-feed subdued be worth it?

[Cenghiz]

Would it work on sleeping and stun-loss unconscious as well as those critically injured? And, Indiana Jones aside, would the extra work required to let you force-feed subdued be worth it?

Hey! I'm planning of a character Senoj Anaidni after this one dies! He will need the skill for the situations he'll be stuck into.
Let's become serious: Also brawl code does nearly nothing except Olah the Drunken Dwarf work. Plant skill does nearly nothing except Mask the Unseen work. But they're both in game for extreme situations.. Kidnapping is not easy in ARM.. Especially because it's not that HUGE RP.. You hold the person, release him into a cage or a half-giant.. torture him.. bla bla.. *yawn* Forcing some grishen or peraine would be funny, and the half-giant would be able to hold his weapons. You just would force feed him when needed, and some more poison to be sure, till you arrived at the destination.
Forcing loosetongue? Yey! It would be great! He would tell all the secrets in seconds, and you wouldn't mess with torture.

Note: Hmm.. nothing IC.... help poison.. Please don't start flaming me before reading all.

[spawnloser]

You killed Mansa!

You bastard!

No, seriously...I like the idea.  What a couple people seemed to miss was that we aren't talking about feeding someone capable of feeding their own damn self.  I'm all for feeding those that are already screwed to try to help/hinder them a bit.

[Carnage]

What could possibly be unfair play on that? No, really, think about it, nothing would be the answer, Only thing it would do is open up more RP options for things and be supported by code, the person doing the subduing could not forcefeed, it would need be somebody else, and if one person has you subdued and he has a friend and they want you dead or out cold, then dead or out cold you will be, with or without the ability to force feed.

I've been subdued in certain clan compounds before by other members, in the non-sparring areas.

To kill me, all someone will need to do is get a friend, subdue me, and forcefeed me poison and they can get away with it, crimcode free. Unless then you want to make forcefeeding crimflag, at which point you're going to open up another can of worms, such as when someone tries to save their best buddy.

[sacac]

I am all for this idea.

This is really a great idea, and would give those assasin/thugs something to use a bit more

[spawnloser]

Subduing gets you crimflagged as well, Carnage.

[flurry]

Has anyone here ever actually fed an unconscious person before?   That just strikes me as seriously unrealistic.  Even for poison cures it seems like a stretch, although with a large chance of failure I could buy that somewhat.

[Ghost]

I've been subdued in certain clan compounds before by other members, in the non-sparring areas.

Subduing gets you crimflagged as well, Carnage.

If you are subdued by your clan members, you dont get crim flag. I gess Carnage was referring to that.
The solution might be that you get crim-flag even if you are in your clan buddies, but try subdue in non-sparring area.
Or...
You put a different code for subdued forcefeed.  For example, you forcefeed something to an unconcious poor by "Forcefeed water poor guy"

And you forcefeed poison to a subdued guy by:

"stick poison subdued guy"

I like the dea of forcefeed, and applying it to a subdued one as well.

[Angela Christine]

Near death or stunned?  Yes.  

Merely asleep?  No, if some grubby Zalanthan sticks his fingers in my mouth then I'm going to wake up (or maybe not, since I don't wake up when he steals my pants).  

Subdued?  Hmm, maybe, but with a very high chance of failure.  Have you ever tried force feeding pills to a cat?  It can be done, but there is a significant chance that the cat will spit out the soggy pill, sometimes -minutes- after you thought he had swallowed it.      

Liquids easier than solids, but it depends on how solid the solid is.  Trying to forcefeed a mekillot steak would be almost impossible, because no one could swallow something that big without chewing it even if they wanted to.  If you want to help someone dieing of starvation kumiss might be a better choice.  Tablets are solid, but the thing about tablets is that they disolve.  Stick the tablet under his tongue and it should disolve and be swallowed unless he is actively trying to prevent swallowing it and moves it up between his gum and cheek with his tounge.  Although Brew is unfinished, I think you can brew cures in vials.  So perhaps you can only forcefeed liquids, so an unconcious poisoned person could only be helped by a liquid cure, and those are generally more expensive, rarer, and more difficult to transport than tablets.  But it would give people a reason to bother brewing and buying vials.


AC

[Cenghiz]

if some grubby Zalanthan sticks his fingers in my mouth then I'm going to wake up (or maybe not, since I don't wake up when he steals my pants).

Haven't you ever stayed in a dormitory? just slightly close the nose.. He will automatically open his mouth.. and you WON'T wake up if you're not an uber light-sleeper. I did it a million times in dormitory jokes. And you CAN have someone sleeping eat something.. the toungue reflexively pushes the thing you stuck into the open mouth to the right channel. I also tried this last of times. Our body's not that idiot, killing us every time when something's stuk into our mouth. It just thinks one of it's primary defences, the gastric acid, and swallows.

To kill me, all someone will need to do is get a friend, subdue me, and forcefeed me poison and they can get away with it, crimcode free.

Yes! This ir right! Here's Zalanthas.. And you're not easily caught when you poison someone lightning fast. It's baddie that your character dies but it's realistic. No evidences around... little time passed for people aroung to understand even what you're doing.. If they can, a few ones probably will. I repeat, here's Zalanthas, please don't tell me that you're afraid of a little bit more danger.

I don't like the phrase "This will kill people." Scrabs kill people too. Please use the phrase "This will kill people UNREALISTICALLY." if it suits, because then we may believe that there's a problem.

[Saikun]

I'm not sure how well this would work, as has been pointed out above. There is a piece of cartilage called the epiglottis that keeps food and drink from entering the respiratory system. When at rest (such as when a person is not conscious) the epiglottis closes off the path to the stomach, and leaves the path to the lungs open. The epiglottis covers the path to the lungs through the conscious act of swallowing. Forcing food or drink down an unconcious person's throat would lead it into the lungs, which would probably kill them faster by drowning, rather than help them.

So no, this wouldn't work for food or drink to save starving people.

That being said, there may be some wiggle room for poison antedotes, assuming it was not in the form of a potion. A tablet or paste of some kind could feasibly be absorbed through the mucus membranes between the cheek and gum without killing the person, although it would be dangerous, as they may aspirate some of the paste. The safer route is putting the paste in the person's anus, as the membranes there are very absorbant. This is actually an accepted method of reviving an unconcious diabetic who needs glucose. We're not allowed to give it orally, due to the risk, and if we don't have a person able to give it via an IV, then you flip the person over, and give it anally. That person will be up and talking to you, wondering where the hell they are, in about a minute.

Sooo... if Ness wanted to code it so you could give poison antedotes (not bananas) to Mansa anally... I'd say it was a medically realistic option.

-S

[Gilvar]

But who in zalanthas would think to do that! ShaLeah excluded of course!

[Saikun]

But who in zalanthas would think to do that! ShaLeah excluded of course!

Well, nobody really. I was just contributing to the general intellectual benefit of the playerbase. Well, and also setting up a Mansa-gets-a-banana-in-the-butt joke. I would say the anal mucus membranes would not be something that is common knowledge.

The number of off-color jokes I want to make right now is simply overwhelming.

-S

[Seeker]

Sooo... if Ness wanted to code it so you could give poison antedotes (not bananas) to Mansa anally... I'd say it was a medically realistic option

Would we still have to wait for that damn inconvenient "being unconscious" part?


Seeker

[mansa]

So, this has festered for a while in the backpages of this thread, and I'm going to restate it.

When people are dying of hunger and thirst, (and that doesn't happen much, but it does happen), and they are in the 'critical' stage of life, being below 0 hit points, how can people help them?

Must they wish up for assistance, or would there be some 'command' that can be introduced into the game to make it available for us to not bother the immortals?

[sarahjc]

Yeah, a whole code addition doesn't seem so necessary for something that you can normally just wish up for or play out along the lines of the fact that they were too far gone to get any help.

[Agent_137]

anytime something simple can be coded to replace a wish i'm all for it.

let's idea this in game and hope a coder takes a liking to it.

[Dalmeth]

I'm pretty sure if you place something small and solid along the part of the tongue in the back of the mouth and hold the mouth shut, you swallow by reflex.

Make more advanced actions, like feeding large objects and liquid substances dependent upon your bandaging skill.

[Jherlen]

Here's the problem about wishing up: it takes time, sometimes.

Not too long ago I was rushing to help a PC who had been poisoned. My character had the antidote in a vial, but by the time I got to the poisoned guy, his poison had already made him collapse into a critical state where he couldn't drink the vial anymore.

I wished up, but it was an off-peak time and nobody was able to respond before the unfortunate PC died while I stood there and watched. And even if there had been imms on, it's not fair to expect them always to be able to respond fast enough anyway.

I really do think something like this would be helpful.

[Forest Junkie]

I have been involved in a situation similar to yours, Jherlen. I found the staff quite responsive and helpful in the matter. It -was- during peak hours though, so that is a factor.

I'm for the skill. For now though, I think wishing up for help is appropriate until the skill itself is added.

[O]

Edited for irrelevance.

[Ritley]

I can see it working yeah. Great idea Mansa.

[path]

I love this idea.