Discuss your feelings on the changes to the game

[FantasyWriter]

The new season will either reignite the passion, or be my final closure.  Both possibilities are positives to be honest.

Its a giant risk. Its basically swim, or die hail Mary for Armageddon.

Jesus, I could not have summed up my own feelings any better than this.

I am both optimistic that it may help save the game, and ready to walk away with some good closer if it crashes. I often feel a tinge of guilt during my breaks that I could be helping keep it alive when I have other, more important things to do that don't leave me much gaming time.

[WarriorPoet]

After sleeping on things and giving it some more thought, I still hate it. A lot.

Long term, collaborative storytelling. I thought that is what we were doing here all along. I don't want episodes. I want history. There is a chain of stories in the Byn from Sujaal to the 3-hour runner in the latrines today. Stories that we wrote together and put some tears and time into. Those stories all touched each other.  That matters to me. Ten mantis heads and several RL years after we were friends, my nobody aod character held Brand's spear and I smiled at the screen. Vittor had watched Brand swing that spear fifty times. People had passed it along. We kept that story alive. That matters to me. That is a moment I cherish.

To hear that this chain of stories is going to be broken tastes like shit and ashes.

[flurry]

I've been thinking about how to express myself on this topic.

I think the intentions here are good and I applaud the courage to make a bold change. That said, I find the roll-out of this to be perplexing. Maybe I'm misreading things, but this feels impulsive, both because of the recent calls for role applications and the fact that some basic details seem to be TBD. Of course the change may prove to be exactly what the game needs, but getting buy-in from players is hugely important for this to succeed. By not seeking feedback beforehand, and suggesting a mass forced storage is a few weeks away, it feels like the perspectives and experience of players are being disregarded.

Don't get me wrong. I want this to succeed, and I intend to do my part (as meager as it might be) to contribute to that.

[Riev]

I think all the howling from players is hard to take seriously. Many of these players gleefully enjoyed ending another character's story in ways that are wholly callous and arbitrary. And then they complain the loudest when their story needs to end? Give me a break. The hypocrisy is unreal.

Look. I know you said "many" to cover your ass, but I have been directly or indirectly responsible for the death of a PC maybe 6 times over 20 years of gameplay. And I'm being liberal.

Players should be allowed to dislike things without being disregarded and shoved into a group of "callous and arbitrary PKers".

The hypocrisy may exist, but your attitude is piss poor towards your fellow players. Maybe you should apply for staff.

[Kaathe]

I think all the howling from players is hard to take seriously. Many of these players gleefully enjoyed ending another character's story in ways that are wholly callous and arbitrary. And then they complain the loudest when their story needs to end? Give me a break. The hypocrisy is unreal.

Look. I know you said "many" to cover your ass, but I have been directly or indirectly responsible for the death of a PC maybe 6 times over 20 years of gameplay. And I'm being liberal.

Players should be allowed to dislike things without being disregarded and shoved into a group of "callous and arbitrary PKers".

The hypocrisy may exist, but your attitude is piss poor towards your fellow players. Maybe you should apply for staff.

I lol'd at the staff comment.  But yeah. While even one time being murdered for seemingly nothing will hurt and never be forgotten (I've been through 2 and it ruined an entire part of the game for me), I'm not angry at the players about it. They weren't intentionally griefing. Instead I direct it at mistakes, misunderstandings, perhaps some missing  IC context, and ultimately rules/staff allowing frivolous PK. Now let's bring this back on topic before mods show up.

I mentioned in a previous thread before the announcement  that I was on the side of incremental improvement. This is definitely not incremental! It's pretty scary even being part of staff.  I like the game as it is too. I think I'll like seasons. But the transition and the loss of what we have now is scary and saddening. On the other hand, I'm glad the producers are willing to make hard calls for the game's future. About a month or so ago I told Usiku that they do too much admin shit and not enough executive stuff. So maybe this is my fault?? 

[Master Color]

Okay? You're one of the good ones Riev.

I think all the howling from players is hard to take seriously. Many of these players gleefully enjoyed ending another character's story in ways that are wholly callous and arbitrary. And then they complain the loudest when their story needs to end? Give me a break. The hypocrisy is unreal.

Look. I know you said "many" to cover your ass, but I have been directly or indirectly responsible for the death of a PC maybe 6 times over 20 years of gameplay. And I'm being liberal.

Players should be allowed to dislike things without being disregarded and shoved into a group of "callous and arbitrary PKers".

The hypocrisy may exist, but your attitude is piss poor towards your fellow players. Maybe you should apply for staff.

I lol'd at the staff comment.  But yeah. While even one time being murdered for seemingly nothing will hurt and never be forgotten (I've been through 2 and it ruined an entire part of the game for me), I'm not angry at the players about it. They weren't intentionally griefing. Instead I direct it at mistakes, misunderstandings, perhaps some missing  IC context, and ultimately rules/staff allowing frivolous PK. Now let's bring this back on topic before mods show up.

Player Killing is a choice made by players. It has nothing to do with mistakes, misunderstandings or IC context. Choices were made to end someone else's fun. Fault lies with either the player or the system that enables it.

[betweenford]

I mean, in a system where players are actively being driven to inevitably die or meet some end, it's sort of a bad outlook to see every death as some effort to "end someone's fun".

The intended approach is providing someone's story an gratifying end. Climactic or not. Not every death ends up that way but it's what people should strive for.

Anyhow etc etc these changes to the game don't provide a gratifying or organic end to people's stories.

[papertiger]

The new season will either reignite the passion, or be my final closure.  Both possibilities are positives to be honest.

Its a giant risk. Its basically swim, or die hail Mary for Armageddon.

Jesus, I could not have summed up my own feelings any better than this.

I am both optimistic that it may help save the game, and ready to walk away with some good closer if it crashes. I often feel a tinge of guilt during my breaks that I could be helping keep it alive when I have other, more important things to do that don't leave me much gaming time.

Still immensely strange for me to continue to see people say the game was/is dying. I guess perspective is everything. I joined post mayhem earlier this year. I knew it'd been at a lull but I've seen so many awesome things this year.

[betweenford]

The new season will either reignite the passion, or be my final closure.  Both possibilities are positives to be honest.

Its a giant risk. Its basically swim, or die hail Mary for Armageddon.

Jesus, I could not have summed up my own feelings any better than this.

I am both optimistic that it may help save the game, and ready to walk away with some good closer if it crashes. I often feel a tinge of guilt during my breaks that I could be helping keep it alive when I have other, more important things to do that don't leave me much gaming time.

Still immensely strange for me to continue to see people say the game was/is dying. I guess perspective is everything. I joined post mayhem earlier this year. I knew it'd been at a lull but I've seen so many awesome things this year.

Well, I mean, it's currently in the midst of potentially dying right now after the announcement.

But I joined like 2019 and the numbers pre-change were fairly consistent with what they were then, I'm fairly sure. 30-40 except when an event was happening. 50-70 depending on the scale of the event.

There's alot of factors which contribute to that. From reducing play areas and never going back and fixing them, to a lack of ability for certain parties to influence events in world plot on the ground, failed promises, constantly rotating staff which make it impossible to get certain things done, antagonism in wishes/request when trying to affect the world, etc etc. But that's my list.

[The Pippy Invasion]

How to avoid the  sense of 'it doesn't matter'  which will present in each season as the inescapable, fatalistic end would be ever looming?

Why spend so many hours roleplaying - and sometimes really working hard with a character -  pouring hours, days, weeks into shaping their connections, their friendships, plots, when it will be for nothing and they will be force stored right as you begin to get them in a good position in the gameworld.

It's easy for some to pop out characters every few weeks, with entirely new personas and quickly dip into madness and mayhem (and you guys who are able to do that, are brilliant!) .

But not everyone enjoys doing that and a game base is made out of as many diverse players and styles as it is their characters.

[Dar]

Somehow I doubt (might be mistaken.  I'm not actually reading the rest of GDB) that these seasons will be so short that it would prevent the long lifers from finishing their play. Unless one doesn't think that their story was properly played out unless they went past the 1+ rl yr mark.


I think Arm should survive one season change first, before worrying about multiple

[Fredd]

Somehow I doubt (might be mistaken.  I'm not actually reading the rest of GDB) that these seasons will be so short that it would prevent the long lifers from finishing their play. Unless one doesn't think that their story was properly played out unless they went past the 1+ rl yr mark.


I think Arm should survive one season change first, before worrying about multiple

I think they are walking back on this. They realized another game uses this format, and may emulate them a bit. Giving us longer seasons, and possible chapter breaks. We'll see.

[Miradus]

I think they are walking back on this. They realized another game uses this format, and may emulate them a bit. Giving us longer seasons, and possible chapter breaks. We'll see.

A game NONE of us have chosen to play.

[Malken]

I think they are walking back on this. They realized another game uses this format, and may emulate them a bit. Giving us longer seasons, and possible chapter breaks. We'll see.

A game NONE of us have chosen to play.

I'm the one who proposed to Halaster to do 3 "eras" in a timeline instead of just one shorter season to give players a longer time to affect the world before a wipe. Halaster did not even know what "Legends of the Jedi" was until I proposed that system to him. It's just borrowing one element from other games that have done what they're going for.

[Fredd]

I think they are walking back on this. They realized another game uses this format, and may emulate them a bit. Giving us longer seasons, and possible chapter breaks. We'll see.

A game NONE of us have chosen to play.

Likely because the actual system they have isn't to our taste. We don't want classic mud quests with rpi on top.

We want skills that level with use so growth feels natural, for example.

A format similar to that game could work out well here. And I stand by that.

I also stand by my opinion that this was handled fairly badly. And things would have went smoother with proper timing and preperation.

[zilcho]

Honestly my biggest worry is the reaction of the playerbase, such as those ragequitting or announcing that the game will die. If you don't give Armageddon a chance, of course it's going to die. Are those long-lived characters that many of us never achieve anyway really so important to you?

You might as well ask if permadeath is "so important" that many of us would quit playing versus play in an Armageddon with characters respawning.

For some of us the world, a never-ending, living, breathing world with threats galore and the promise that, short of bugs, your character's fate was in the hands of player agency is absolutely THE draw. The risks and potential harshness were what made my various character's relationships and experiences and successes and failures so deeply meaningful.

You're framing it as a choice but for me, and I suspect others - it isn't. I'm not deciding to stop playing now out of protest. I've stopped wanting to login because I do not find it possible to give a crap about a character I was really starting to enjoy because I now know an artificial end is coming.

I said in the other thread that I think some people fundamentally fail to grasp why a player like myself always held this game in a special place in their heart. I think your question exemplifies that.

[Miradus]

1. We have lost something that, while not perfect, we found satisfactory enough to invest time in.

2. Nebulous promises about what we will get back, and when.

3. A lot of people showing up at the door wanting to steer what we'll get back towards something we never had and was plentiful elsewhere but they never bothered to go get.

I am not hopeful.

[Kestria]

The main blessing of this, I find, is knowing that staff will not be able to play characters during the seasons, thus eliminating being able to abuse the power of OOC knowledge to use IG, which has constantly happened, all the way up to this point.

[Rogerthat]

Honestly my biggest worry is the reaction of the playerbase, such as those ragequitting or announcing that the game will die. If you don't give Armageddon a chance, of course it's going to die. Are those long-lived characters that many of us never achieve anyway really so important to you? Is the idea of being able to play in multiple timestreams and locations not the least bit enticing?

Absolutely is important to me. I have played 20+ years and always take risk, I've never really had a super duper long lived PC besides 40 days and a couple 15 20 day pcs. With that said, these changes for me atleast gave me a lose of hope to achieve a long lived PC on my current PC. Playing a PC and becoming long lived is 'rare' like you said so yes, why wouldn't people who can achieve long lived be unhappy about this change. I personally don't want to invest my time into something where 'seasons' change and now you lose your PC. I have hardly enough time as it is to log in for fifteen minutes and practice a few things then log out. I think because you are on the other side of not having somewhat long lived pcs you only see it from your perspective which I personally think is a bit indifferent about such. I enjoy arm because I can come back to my PC at anytime, that is why there is a age limit on pcs so they die off etc. Not every PC lives forever. But taking away that ability to achieve long lived? For me at least and I'm not trying to be negative here I'm just being real, it isn't a game I'd stick around playing. For me that is what kept me around, I could take a month or two or even a year off and come back and say 'peek a boo' I still live!

[Tuannon]

The idea of not being strapped into the trans Siberian railway to entropic heat death of the Known is also something I'd like to remain an idea, also. I expect about 3% of anything said in this thread will eventuate in anything, as with the other shopping chain style slight variations on the Seasonal thread. It's great people are getting it out of their system but history has proven discussion and arguing is a waste of time.

[EvilRoeSlade]

Honestly my biggest worry is the reaction of the playerbase, such as those ragequitting or announcing that the game will die. If you don't give Armageddon a chance, of course it's going to die. Are those long-lived characters that many of us never achieve anyway really so important to you? Is the idea of being able to play in multiple timestreams and locations not the least bit enticing?

Absolutely is important to me. I have played 20+ years and always take risk, I've never really had a super duper long lived PC besides 40 days and a couple 15 20 day pcs. With that said, these changes for me atleast gave me a lose of hope to achieve a long lived PC on my current PC. Playing a PC and becoming long lived is 'rare' like you said so yes, why wouldn't people who can achieve long lived be unhappy about this change. I personally don't want to invest my time into something where 'seasons' change and now you lose your PC. I have hardly enough time as it is to log in for fifteen minutes and practice a few things then log out. I think because you are on the other side of not having somewhat long lived pcs you only see it from your perspective which I personally think is a bit indifferent about such. I enjoy arm because I can come back to my PC at anytime, that is why there is a age limit on pcs so they die off etc. Not every PC lives forever. But taking away that ability to achieve long lived? For me at least and I'm not trying to be negative here I'm just being real, it isn't a game I'd stick around playing. For me that is what kept me around, I could take a month or two or even a year off and come back and say 'peek a boo' I still live!

That's a little presumptuous. I've played nobles and templars from creation to their deaths in battle or assassination, as well as a common warrior who clocked in at 40 days by the time they died. On the other side of the equation, some of my fondest memories are of characters that never cleared 10 days. Through it all I've found that a character's death is very rarely entertaining or interactive, it's the life that they had before that makes it all worth it.

Agree to disagree I guess.

[RogueGunslinger]

Callous and indifferent. Maybe a tinge of hope. Mostly bewildered at the response from the community. I think im too far from it all to see it clearly. I thought I loved this game but some of you are like those people who have been passionately speedrunning a single game for decades.

I will never love this game like you do, and frankly I find your passion a little intimidating and overwhelming to be around.

[mansa]

I moved a bunch of posts that were not talking about their feelings from the upcoming changes to the Seasons to the moderated posts section, but derailing the conversation to speak about specific community members.

Remember:
Be polite.
Be respectful.
Show kindness.
Keep the conversation on topic.
Keep personal information private.
No NSFW content.
Don't bash other community members.

[Patuk]

I heavily feel like the way people conduct themselves is the issue and that failing to address this is a non-starter.

[Inks]

I feel... the game has seriously jumped the shark in a wild way. I feel some are delusional about how all this will go down, but I would be fine with being proved wrong.

I've moved on due to having zero interest in "seasons". But every few days I stop in to read the dramas.