Discuss your feelings on the changes to the game

[FantasyWriter]

I feel... the game has seriously jumped the shark in a wild way. I feel some are delusional about how all this will go down, but I would be fine with being proved wrong.

I've moved on due to having zero interest in "seasons". But every few days I stop in to read the dramas.

I had to look up "jumping the shark," but that was exactly how I felt once I realized it wasn't a joke (I was in denial for a good hour thinking there is no way this could be happening, someone hacked Halaster, etc.).

I hope we are wrong. I will stick around until the game close and make a PC when season one starts to see how it goes.

[Riev]

I still do not mind the idea of Seasons. The theory is good, but the execution so far even in just the announcement is lacking.

It sapped my desire even if I didn't think this PC would last a couple months anyway.

[Pariah]

While I too have sorta lost desire to play, I'm not gonna lump it all as staffs fault.

It's just when I log on and see 5 people playing, I don't have the desire to even do a training loop, for better or for worse you require other people to be playing or it's just not interesting.  I'll swing on time and time again to see if things have picked back up.

But I don't know if it ever will till the seasons thing starts.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I've said it before, I'll say it again:

In an effort to reduce staff workload, staff are adding to their workload and making promises that historically have been difficult or impossible to keep.

I'm not so sure this is the case. I feel you, but in theory, focusing on locales that currently exist, though they be past or future, drastically reduces what has to be built. Allanak could be razed in 100 years, but all you had to do was close some exits and rewrite a few hundred rooms. One person could pull this off in a month (without QC but still). You keep a few clans, and add a few more that are really just a data structure and a copy/paste of a current clan. You need to write maybe 50 new items? Probably less, based on the story taking place in that future version of Nak.

I've written an entire 100-room forest (with little QC to be fair and a lot of copy paste, and some titled but not described animals) and a small 15ish room village in a week of vacation once, along with a few items and shit that fleshed out the policing force for the village (and probably ~10 NPCs too, with arbitrary BGs). If I hadn't had to write from scratch and could have had a basis for a rewrite, I could have done even more faster.

That's by myself. I feel like a future version of Nak could be whipped out in a month and feel decent if a whole team is on it.

[Roon]

I think the concern that some have (myself certainly included) is that all of this is to be done in short order by the same staff that let the game stagnate the way it has. It will require a lot more engagement from them than I've seen signs of in some time, and if they can suddenly do that, it begs the question why they didn't before. It's like a restaurant where ten cooks can't manage to make one dinner in a day, but then they promise they can turn a new leaf and make ten. That task sounds feasible enough, but then why couldn't they even make one?

In the four clans I've been in over the course of the last three years, I have legitimately not seen an animation, an attentive echo, an event initiated, or any other sign that the four different staff members overseeing those clans were even active and putting any time into spicing up the experience for those in the clan. Total radio silence across four different clans, in what will have amounted to something like eighty days of combined playtime. Utep Sun Clan, Valuren, Masterless and Two Moons. Zero animations, zero contact from staff, zero story. Nada. That's to say nothing of the scarcity of general worldwide events to move things forward on a larger scale.

In light of that, I don't think it's unreasonable to be skeptical that there will be a sudden blur of activity to urgently construct a new version of the game. Is the energy and intent there? If it isn't, how will it happen? If it is, where was it up until now? It hasn't felt like staff cared very much about the game as it is. Do you suddenly care a whole lot more now? Now that everyone has quit?

I can definitely see that consolidating the game into a smaller area of play will allow staff to collectively cover more ground. That's simple arithmetics. It makes sense in principle. However, I find that the gamewide effort in the last few years has not been enough to suffice even if Armageddon was reduced to just a single playable location like Allanak. From what I have seen of staff's collective efforts in recent times, across the entire game, it hasn't been enough even for the narrower field that the seasonal model offers. Doubly so if they intend to trim down and rotate staff so that only some are active at a time. Triply so if there also needs to be a whole new chapter built every year or so.

I'd be pleasantly surprised if I'm proven wrong and this all turns out the way it was intended, because the core idea is actually very good- but I can't deny that I would be surprised. For a long time now, playing Armageddon has felt like going to a D&D session where the DM just puts down a map with icons and statblocks for the monsters, tells the players to have fun, and leaves. Then he comes back two hours later to see if the players survived, and if they did, he says well done and see you again next week. It hasn't exactly been inspiring. That hypothetical DM may possess the drive and ability to do much more, but I haven't seen signs of it. I think a lot of players are worried about that.

[Wday]

After learning what most of the staff and players think about me and my gaming here.  I am can not bring myself to log on more the 5 minutes.

[Dar]

After learning what most of the staff and players think about me and my gaming here.  I am can not bring myself to log on more the 5 minutes.

Did something particular happen with you for you to understand this?


Its just, I dont know who you are. I have zero opinion about you and your gaming here.

[Wday]

Just mean spiteful stuff and I let it hit me in the feelings right now.  I'll get over I am sure.

[Riev]

I've said it before, I'll say it again:

In an effort to reduce staff workload, staff are adding to their workload and making promises that historically have been difficult or impossible to keep.

I'm not so sure this is the case. I feel you, but in theory, focusing on locales that currently exist, though they be past or future, drastically reduces what has to be built. Allanak could be razed in 100 years, but all you had to do was close some exits and rewrite a few hundred rooms. One person could pull this off in a month (without QC but still). You keep a few clans, and add a few more that are really just a data structure and a copy/paste of a current clan. You need to write maybe 50 new items? Probably less, based on the story taking place in that future version of Nak.

I've written an entire 100-room forest (with little QC to be fair and a lot of copy paste, and some titled but not described animals) and a small 15ish room village in a week of vacation once, along with a few items and shit that fleshed out the policing force for the village (and probably ~10 NPCs too, with arbitrary BGs). If I hadn't had to write from scratch and could have had a basis for a rewrite, I could have done even more faster.

That's by myself. I feel like a future version of Nak could be whipped out in a month and feel decent if a whole team is on it.

Its a lot of "can" and "could", from a team that in my personal opinion needs to prove to the playerbase they "will".

I like the staff leading this. I do. But as an organization, "staff" has broken my trust and confidence a number of times. You, @The7DeadlyVenomz may be able to get this done in a weekend. The current staff in charge maybe could, as well, if they were motivated and had the time.

This is, to me, akin to a middling, decent Video Game Developer having some of their best and brightest spinning off into a new company. They are making great promises about taking what they know into this new direction but historically their best game releases are problematic.

Staff could do this well. And in 2025 when this finally has a soft launch, I will likely try it out. My my personal feelings follow a central chord that sings "The players don't know what they want and are beneath us."

[Armaddict]

my personal feelings follow a central chord that sings "The players don't know what they want and are beneath us."

As a rule, I generally agree with the first part of that song.  Which makes the second part pretty easy to pick up from various sources, as a feeling.

Have you ever seen someone who drives by following the lines like 10 feet in front of their car?  They stay in the lines, but they are a bit swervy, a bit erratic, react slowly, and don't prepare for things ahead.  Versus how the steady driver drives, keeping their eyes up and looking ahead and registering things as they pass a good amount of time ahead of when it happens.

I'd view that as an analogy in separate instances for both players and for staff.

[Riev]

The difference being there's one Officer of the Law on the road for every thousand motorists doing that.
In Armageddon, there's 1 staff for every maybe 20 players.

If they wanted to reward people for driving in the lines, they would. In my experience, the squeaky wheel gets the grease.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

@Riev : (<-- Wow, that's a cool feature) ... I can completely understand wondering if it's possible. I kind of wonder the same too.

But I tend to feel that the amount of stagnation in regards to "new IG stuff" was more about navigating the guidelines rather than a lack of desire on the part of the staff. Junior staff has to jump through nearly the same number of hoops to get something new in-game, as players who have wanted to have a clan or build a statue in the desert or whatnot. To be honest, in terms of retaining players' interest, the stringent requirements to change the world have hurt it so much more than almost anything else over the course of the game's life.

I certainly hope the new work is expedited.

[flurry]

Code Select Expand


who
Immortals
---------

There are 0 visible Immortals currently in the world.

There are 0 players currently in the world, other than yourself.

No joke. That's real at 2:30 pm server time (okay, on Christmas Eve Eve).

However, I will say that although I've seen some shockingly low 'who' number recently, I've been pleasantly surprised to have encountered several other characters around, both familiar and unfamiliar.

[Lizzie]

Code Select Expand


who
Immortals
---------

There are 0 visible Immortals currently in the world.

There are 0 players currently in the world, other than yourself.

No joke. That's real at 2:30 pm server time (okay, on Christmas Eve Eve).

However, I will say that although I've seen some shockingly low 'who' number recently, I've been pleasantly surprised to have encountered several other characters around, both familiar and unfamiliar.

Last night I was saddened to see only 3 others on the who list, at around 8:30pm server time.  Though I honor the rules and won't announce it here, it's probably no secret who I play. I'm one of the players who really wants "something I do" in this game, to carry forward into the Seasons version.  Because of the nature of my role, I probably don't "need" other players. I can use the virtual world. But that's not why I play this game.

So a message to those folks who "would" play, who want to play, who are disheartened, and sad because when they log in they don't see anyone on the who list and give up...

Please don't do that.  Please stick around. My role, with my PC, is to facilitate the stories of others. Let me do that. Help me do that, by showing up, and not logging out minutes after you type WHO.

I'm not on staff anymore, haven't been since March. But I've been playing since 2002, and unlike some, am fine to "roll with the punches" and continue enjoying this game. I CAN do it alone. But I really don't want to.

[Inks]

Merry Christmas everyone!

I certainly am not surprised by the low logins. Didn't take a psychology degree to predict that was going to happen. The seeming disregard for players was really palpable to me.

But again, I wish those that remain all the best.

To all you others, hit me up if you want to chat etc. I check this board every week or so now.

[Cowboy]

Bah!  Humbug!

[zilcho]

So a message to those folks who "would" play, who want to play, who are disheartened, and sad because when they log in they don't see anyone on the who list and give up...

Please don't do that.  Please stick around. My role, with my PC, is to facilitate the stories of others. Let me do that. Help me do that, by showing up, and not logging out minutes after you type WHO.

Maybe staff should disable hunger and dehydration so people can idle hours common areas.

[ShaiHulud]

So a message to those folks who "would" play, who want to play, who are disheartened, and sad because when they log in they don't see anyone on the who list and give up...

Please don't do that.  Please stick around. My role, with my PC, is to facilitate the stories of others. Let me do that. Help me do that, by showing up, and not logging out minutes after you type WHO.

Unless it has been disabled, this exists already. Or did.

Maybe staff should disable hunger and dehydration so people can idle hours common areas.

[roughneck]

The low player counts do make me wonder what the game lifespan threshold is for engaging folks to play. Is it 6 months, 12 months? At what point does the termination date of the game discourage players from creating a PC.

It seems important to know if we're switching to a model where there is going to be a timer counting down in the backround.

I've been logging in because I was hoping it would cause people to play recklessly wild PC's in these last weeks, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

[Lizzie]

The low player counts do make me wonder what the game lifespan threshold is for engaging folks to play. Is it 6 months, 12 months? At what point does the termination date of the game discourage players from creating a PC.

It seems important to know if we're switching to a model where there is going to be a timer counting down in the backround.

I've been logging in because I was hoping it would cause people to play recklessly wild PC's in these last weeks, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

Unfortunately, the staff urged players to go ahead and play other games while plotlines were being finished up for players who had plotlines. Unfortunately, many of those plotlines kinda needed other players.  So many of those plotlines are completely dead, and what's left are plots that are really just staff and sponsored role plots.  But the sponsored role characters have nothing to do, and no one to do it with, if staff isn't around.

I think urging players to play something else was a mistake. If players wanted to play something else, that's on them, and that's fine. But pushing them toward that decision resulted in the few who -wanted- to stick around, to become demotivated.

[Dar]

Lizzie. People are not cattle.   "Encouragement" can only go so far. Unless 'lack of encouragement' is a froth at the mouth, eye bulging opposition type of lack of encouragement.


I haven't played the game in years due to certain disagreements. And even I began to keep a closer eye at Arm due to their seasons thing. But I definitely did not bother to create a character in this Arm epoch.  You can't blame others for choosing not to do it either.


People will return when season one opens. Even if it's a bust and nothing actually gets improved, or changed. People will still return. To give it one last try.

[Riev]

I cannot bring myself to play anything in the first place, but in the second place I would not want to play my current PC risky and wild only to die and ... app a new character when the game has 4 players and one month left.

I'd rather finish my character's story in my head. There, it is satisfying.

[Roon]

Maybe if these supposed plotlines were readily apparent to regular players, more would have stayed.

Nobody really cares much about Lady Longskirt's latest festival.

[Riev]

And I really like(d) where my character's story was going but it was kind of riffing off what was happening with other people.

In my headcanon, they are going to "acquire <x> power" and "basically sacrifice themselves to hurt <y> clan". In my head, its done. If I tried to do it in game, it wouldn't be as satisfying.

But also agreed... if there are 'loose end plotlines' to be wrapped up, I get the sneaking suspicion there are about 10 people still playing that would be fine having a RL month to be part of a pre-established plotline that needs assistance. Rather than "Apply today! survive the month of January!"

[Miradus]

I think urging players to play something else was a mistake. If players wanted to play something else, that's on them, and that's fine. But pushing them toward that decision resulted in the few who -wanted- to stick around, to become demotivated.

THAT'S the mistake, was it?