Discuss your feelings on the changes to the game

[zilcho]

I think urging players to play something else was a mistake. If players wanted to play something else, that's on them, and that's fine. But pushing them toward that decision resulted in the few who -wanted- to stick around, to become demotivated.

I did my best for the last 10+ years to avoid players out of game and staff in and out of game as much as possible. I didn't decide to stop playing because of some staff recommendation.

Their choices resulted in me not wanting to login to this game ever again because Seasons might as well be Armageddon: Battle Royale to me. I'm still checking every once in a while hoping that someone with some shred of sanity realizes that the game is all but permanently dead, seasons won't save it, and they've decided to do some sort of reboot or something.

I hardly doubt any players let some staff comment about playing other games actually direct their decisions, it's that a large swathe of us feel incapable of caring about a character with a best case scenario of being stored on staff's timeframes.

[Riev]

Its not even worth responding to, @zilcho
It feels to me that its another way to denigrate the actual playerbase.

It was wrong for staff to tell [the fucking lemming players] to play something else. Had staff not suggested to play a different game, [the mindless wandering playerbase] would have stuck around.

[Malken]

And let's be bluntly honest, no one (aside from Lizzie I guess) buys into the "What you do in the game right now will affect the next season" gimmick.

I love the current staff but I'm far from hyped - maybe they're saving it for after the Holidays.

[CirclelessBard]

Just a friendly reminder to be kind and respectful towards fellow players. No rules have been broken as far as I can tell, but given the recent influx of activity in the thread I want to urge people posting in this thread to:

- Avoid making comments about criticizing current IC events. There are people behind the characters behind those events and they do deserve the same kindness they were afforded when there were more players playing the game. These comments only become more pointed now that there are fewer active players.

- Respect players' choices to play or not play as the game changes. This is just an offshoot of showing respect to community members in general.

Thank you.

[Lizzie]

Just a friendly reminder to be kind and respectful towards fellow players. No rules have been broken as far as I can tell, but given the recent influx of activity in the thread I want to urge people posting in this thread to:

- Avoid making comments about criticizing current IC events. There are people behind the characters behind those events and they do deserve the same kindness they were afforded when there were more players playing the game. These comments only become more pointed now that there are fewer active players.

- Respect players' choices to play or not play as the game changes. This is just an offshoot of showing respect to community members in general.

Thank you.

The rules have been broken. It's my turn on the hate cycle, which you've either chosen to ignore, or sincerely didn't notice.

[Kavrick]

And let's be bluntly honest, no one (aside from Lizzie I guess) buys into the "What you do in the game right now will affect the next season" gimmick.

I don't really believe anything I have ever done has ever effected the game. The only way that you're going to have your character 'change' anything is if you're already doing something a staff member is writing up for their story line.

On a separate note. I wonder if this whole thing with people not wanting to play the game in the last 1-2 months before character's getting stored to the point where there's frequently zero people playing the game will effect seasons. Who's going to want to make a new character or even play when there's only a month left in the season? Has that even been thought about? This all has made it very very clear that most people don't want to play a game with only a month or so before your progress is deleted and started over agian.

[Riev]

And let's be bluntly honest, no one (aside from Lizzie I guess) buys into the "What you do in the game right now will affect the next season" gimmick.

I don't really believe anything I have ever done has ever effected the game. The only way that you're going to have your character 'change' anything is if you're already doing something a staff member is writing up for their story line.

On a separate note. I wonder if this whole thing with people not wanting to play the game in the last 1-2 months before character's getting stored to the point where there's frequently zero people playing the game will effect seasons. Who's going to want to make a new character or even play when there's only a month left in the season? Has that even been thought about? This all has made it very very clear that most people don't want to play a game with only a month or so before your progress is deleted and started over agian.

I've thought of the idea of "what to do when the season is ending". I know more than a few people practically frothing over the idea of "why would you even make a character".

Depending on the overall plot line for the season, I am HOPING there will be an ending HRPT with the standard "app an AoD Soldier and jump right into the action!" sort of thing. Sure, maybe YOUR particular plotline won't see an ending, but you can still participate in what I HOPE is an overall VISIBLE plotline.

[Pariah]

I feel, that the decision to go to Seasons came from a place of wanting to change the game to make it more manageable and worthwhile from staff.  I remember when Halaster kicked it around on the PC, I was for it then, and I'm still for it now.

However, I do think that it feels like the change has been catastrophically bad for the game.  Just the mention of it has sapped the will to play from a seemingly huge chunk of players, myself included.  While I've never been a super social type player, it is a bummer to log in and find two other people logged in but you.  Even though I'm playing the first of a certain type of character this round, that I really wanted to explore, I just can't bring myself to do it via Single Player Armageddon.

If there is one criticism I could levy at staff, it would be that they do not seem to take player desire into their decision making process and tend to be very full steam ahead once a decision has been made.  Like this current one, that I support in theory, it seems to be a blaring failure and has lost quite a few players.

Since some player love to use the unique player count numbers, even thought they are essentially bullshit, I'll refer to them so you have some meter of bullshit-able numbers to go by, three weeks ago 108, two weeks ago 86, this current week 52.

I think and hope that Halaster, Usiku and Brokkr do reverse course on this, because when nobody is playing your game, is it even worth paying for the hosting and shit?

Edit by moderator: Removed rule-breaking content (Community Rule 1)

[The Lonely Hunter]

I don't usually post here, outside of clan boards. I avoid Discord as well - I think OOC communication and the freeflow of game information has hurt the game in ways that it will never recover from. With that aside...

I have been playing since the 90s. I have had the chance to play some very unique and interesting roles. I have played things that people still insist don't/never have existed. I've played roles that shaped Houses and even city politics. I have absolutely made lasting changes in the game with regards to politics, geography, and other areas. Many of these things that I was fortunate enough to work towards and bring forth are visible to the world, even if many players don't realize it. It IS absolutely possible. I know. I've done it. And I am not the only one. Bust most of us aren't vocal on here and don't bicker back and forth. Look for the guys that have been around for decades but have a low post count. Ask their opinion.

As far as my thoughts on seasons...I don't like it. At one time I played characters that lived for less than five days PT on average and then something happened. My PCs started living for RL years, in some cases, and became very enjoyable and engaging. With seasons, I may not be able to do that anymore.

I get my gaming pleasure from a combination of bringing the world to life for other players (by filling a niche, adhering to documentation, and actually trying to play realistically) and by rewards. I love earning titles, accommodations, promotions, and that sort of thing. It doesn't -seem- as if people like me will find much reward in the new system.

However...I am willing to give it a try. I will dig in, like I always do, and play a role that I enjoy and try to both bring the world to life for others and climb my way up the ladder.

Let's sit back and see what Ginka has in store for us now. Who knows - the changes might suck. Or...it might just bring a cool new aspect to the game that we have loved for so many years.

Let's give it a chance. We have little choice regardless, so make the best of it.

Edit by moderator: Removed rule-breaking content (Community Rule 1)

[Dar]

Agree wholeheartedly.

I also begin to think that asking staff to close earlier in order to start up earlier wont work either.  It'll just close earlier and start about the same time it wouldve started anyway.  We dont know their schedule. Some of it might be irl related. 

So play the game if you want to. Or don't. Enjoy sunlight for now get some separation from the game so you are more balanced when you return. And hopefully you'll enjoy the game more if you do return.

[Kavrick]

Reposting this because apparently my entire post was removed for having like 10% of it be response to someone else's post that was edited by moderation.

And again to call back something I've said in the past, the amount of callous apathy in the community has always been a bit of a festering cancer. No one actually cares to understand and empathise with one another, everyone takes shots at eachother and is obsessed with being the one who's 'right'. Anyone who voices concerns is shouted down and any suggestions for change are just demerited with either 'the game has always been like this' or 'you just want the game to be easy'.

As someone who's more recently gotten into MUDs and Armageddon in particular, it's all pretty sad to see. It's very obvious what the causes are but sadly the game is in a bit of a state of lockjaw. The game is very much stuck in the past with an aging playerbase that still wants things to be like they were 30 years ago. Armageddon is a game stuck in the days of 2e Dungeons and Dragons while the majority of the same sort of playerbase that Armageddon should seek to capture is playing 5e. The new player experience is honestly horrific even when compared to other muds and this absolutely archaic obsession with forging quality of life because 'the game is meant to be hard' even though Quality of Life =/= difficulty is just one of the many reasons why this game struggles to attract new players.

Also, moderators, keep in mind when you ask me 'report rule-breaking posts rather than responding to them', what is an isn't a rule-breaking post on the forums has always been incredibly inconsistent.

[CirclelessBard]

A friendly reminder that this thread is about discussing feelings on the changes to the game. Show kindness and respect to your fellow community members whose feelings may differ from yours. Please do not dismiss other people's feelings as invalid. Many posters here have been able to express a wide variety of their own personal feelings on the game's changes without belittling the feelings of others.

[Pariah]

Sometimes people act irrationally or say silly stuff, it's showing kindness to try and ground them back to reality.

[CirclelessBard]

Sometimes people act irrationally or say silly stuff, it's showing kindness to try and ground them back to reality.

This thread was created with the intention of allowing people to discuss their feelings on the changes to the game. People are doing that. Statements are either attacks, or they are not. You cannot frame an attack as showing kindness. Please review the community rules, particularly Rules 1 and 5.

Per the moderation guidelines:
- Use reports to report posts that violate the rules.
- Submit a Player Complaint via the request tool if you disagree with a moderation action.

Thank you.

[Riev]

Armageddon is a game stuck in the days of 2e Dungeons and Dragons while the majority of the same sort of playerbase that Armageddon should seek to capture is playing 5e. The new player experience is honestly horrific even when compared to other muds and this absolutely archaic obsession with forging quality of life because 'the game is meant to be hard' even though Quality of Life =/= difficulty is just one of the many reasons why this game struggles to attract new players.

I wanted to echo your sentiments that with an aging codebase and a niche environment, we kind of ARE stuck in Second Edition. I say that because I have heard a lot of suggestions from the community that are, essentially, DnD 3.5 'feats' (like random feats to add or subtract from your general template).

There are things I would LIKE to see, but it all revolves around DnD/Tabletop being very narrative focused and Arm has not have an overarching narrative for some time now.

[Kavrick]

I wanted to echo your sentiments that with an aging codebase and a niche environment, we kind of ARE stuck in Second Edition. I say that because I have heard a lot of suggestions from the community that are, essentially, DnD 3.5 'feats' (like random feats to add or subtract from your general template).

There are things I would LIKE to see, but it all revolves around DnD/Tabletop being very narrative focused and Arm has not have an overarching narrative for some time now.

Call me pessimistic but I do feel like it's too little too late. I don't really have any faith due to how slow Arm's development cycle is and the complete lack of reliable communication between development staff and the playerbase. I remember way back when I first started playing, I put in a request for a very simple QoL change that was simply 'could we get a command to check what forage types can be used in an area rather than trying each one individually' and was told that it'd be 'added to the list', that was around 10 months ago.

It took 2+ years (from what I know) to finally give 0 karma players extended subguilds, and with the amount of red tape that goes on I just really don't see the game doing a 180. There are things I could give as great example as as to why, but I'm simply not allowed. But the draconian amount of censorship and communication rules is a completely different topic for another time.

[zilcho]

So was the point of this to ease the workload on staff by shaking loose many or possibly most of the playerbase?

Or was it to grow player numbers?

I think the latter was my assumption, which has been why I've struggled to understand this choice. Because coming back after a like 5-6 year absence I thought that the average logged in numbers were quite good.

Like, do people think that there's some huge untapped vein of gamers who just can't wait to hop into a text-based permadeath RPI with a gargantuan learning curve and shocking amounts of toxicity amongst a playerbase and sometimes staff? A community where some seem unable to express themselves without wildly disproportionate hostility to even the merest of disagreements?

I guess if it was a desire to reduce workload on staff then that at least makes sense and helps explain the invite-only idea.

What a bummer ending for this game.

[Diesel]

If the majority of your playerbase is against the current direction of the game, why wouldn't you pause to reevaluate your plans? Opening up higher roles and giving players access to more control/authority within the game world could have taken stress off staff, more so because there wouldn't be a need for closing off areas or writing changed ones. Automated systems, like the Byn hiring one was a great improvement, the change to analyze another, more qol things like that would have been enough for me. The game should be easy to play as a player, but a challenge for your character.

[Lizzie]

If the majority of your playerbase is against the current direction of the game, why wouldn't you pause to reevaluate your plans? Opening up higher roles and giving players access to more control/authority within the game world could have taken stress off staff, more so because there wouldn't be a need for closing off areas or writing changed ones. Automated systems, like the Byn hiring one was a great improvement, the change to analyze another, more qol things like that would have been enough for me. The game should be easy to play as a player, but a challenge for your character.

I never liked the auto-recruit option. What point is there in joining a combat-oriented clan that has no one to train with, no one to give orders, no one to tell you how you're doing, no one to take you on contracts, no one to pay you, and no one to roleplay with?

Even if there is a PC Sergeant who has a crew he works with. If you are never logged in when the Sergeant and the rest of the crew is logged in, all of the above is still true. You're a lone clan member with nothing to do and no one to do it with.

[Pariah]

I feel like you missed the point entirely of his post.  It wasn't about the byn auto joining he just mentioned it as an example.

[Diesel]

If the majority of your playerbase is against the current direction of the game, why wouldn't you pause to reevaluate your plans? Opening up higher roles and giving players access to more control/authority within the game world could have taken stress off staff, more so because there wouldn't be a need for closing off areas or writing changed ones. Automated systems, like the Byn hiring one was a great improvement, the change to analyze another, more qol things like that would have been enough for me. The game should be easy to play as a player, but a challenge for your character.

I never liked the auto-recruit option. What point is there in joining a combat-oriented clan that has no one to train with, no one to give orders, no one to tell you how you're doing, no one to take you on contracts, no one to pay you, and no one to roleplay with?

Even if there is a PC Sergeant who has a crew he works with. If you are never logged in when the Sergeant and the rest of the crew is logged in, all of the above is still true. You're a lone clan member with nothing to do and no one to do it with.

A Sarge player has rl time to take his crew out on a desert survival ride or sit with one wannabe runner to interview/ give tour. Which would you choose? Also, offpeak Bynners can train together, so you'd at least get the benefits of being in the Byn and have people to spar without having to stay up waiting for a peak sarge.

[papertiger]

I miss Aesira and Pathian and whoever did that really cool scene for me with the things that happened with the stuff where I got to go to the place and then meet that one person and use the stuff that did that thing. (Oh heck don't ban me)

Also I miss the scary Templars because this game does scary Templars great ♡ (insert 900 player tears here)

And hot grebbers who die on you after buying you a drink. And the rinth. And the bad guys. And the gemmed that my characters hate but are jealous of. And the pirates I never got to meet.

There were a lot of fun things and I miss that ♡ The game felt a bit impenetrable at times, but I always figured that was because I was a newb but I was just happy to be there. Maybe it was for a lot of reasons. It would be cool if that feeling changed in Seasons with a smaller world for the staff to govern and less wiggly bits to keep from slipping through the cracks.

/feelings

[Kavrick]

There's so much to miss and knowing it's not really coming back kills my desire to play more than anything. Although recent staff action has pretty much cemented me not playing seasons, sometimes I still log in to see my clan compound be a complete ghost town after all the time and effort I put into playing in the clan. It's fucking sad but this is the bed that Armageddon has made despite all the protest.

[Miradus]

My sadness for its current state has been tempered by recent revelations that almost all of the foils for my antagonism for the past 2 years have been either a staff alt or someone being fed inappropriate secrets and support by someone on staff.

Yeah, yeah. I know you fired all those people. But it still is a problem for me.

[650Booger]

current feeling: thankful for the good times I had and optimistic that there may be more in the future.

I'm playing Arma 3 again, meanwhile.  I like to get semi-drunk and fly osprey VTOLs beyond the limits of their design specs.  but I do hope Arm comes back.

smooches!
Anhelda Borsail
Filibarth Fale
Stanislaw Sath
and many more...