T'zai Byn and hunting

[digitaleak]

While a job might offer 50k coin, it might also unnecessarily risk the lives of a Sergeant's entire unit (including their own life) in one fell swoop or affect current IC relationships/deals/etc. The Byn wants to make money, but they also need to stay neutral politically and stay alive for future work. And they are rarely skilled hunters/grebbers. It would be really foolish to ask the combat-oriented clan to skin a rare and/or powerful beast instead of the GMH with masterful hunters. If someone wants the Byns protection and combat prowess, negotiate with the Sergeants and include the GMH or Indie hunters. Come to an agreement that works IC and utilizes the various skill sets of the different clans in the game.

[Lotion]

holy shit the byn are neoliberals

[SpyGuy]

The problem is usually the price of the Byn for folks like the GMH.  Going after megafauna should be expensive because it can wipe a unit. Unless the GMH have a serious need for the items in question and can charge a ridiculous amount for that silt horror or whatever it doesn't make financial sense to hire the Byn.

Smaller jobs, stuff that requires maybe 2-4 decently trained PCs, is much more doable for the current set up of GMH and player clan hunters.  If the mercenaries will accept a few small each for a day then you can get a reasonably safe ride out to wherever, can be lots of fun.  Still need to have a trained up hunter with the authority and interest to hire those mercenaries though for mini-adventures.

[digitaleak]

I do agree the price seems to be what creates a lot of tension between the Byn and players. I'd say that prompts the opportunity for fun IC negotiations that aren't always financial. But the point is the Byn is not a hunting house/clan, it's just not their focus or expertise.

[Brokkr]

To me, the Byn are mercenaries in the sense of the noun, not necessarily the adjective.  Perhaps using the term Soldier of Fortune better encompasses this than does mercenary.  They are soldiers in a private military organization.

My memory is a bit hazy, but if I am remembering correctly, the hard stance on hunting came about due to player actions.  There were a couple of Byn leaders that instead of doing occasional hunting, or taking contracts for hunting, were more or less ignoring requests for normal contracts and instead taking the unit out for hunting and just selling the stuff to shops and making money that way.

[Riev]

It is far easier to punish the group than to correct the single. /sarcasm

In times of 'nothing going on', hunting contracts should be alright. As part of Wilderness Survival training, learning what plants and creatures are worth skinning, etc. Megafauna have always been a Byn's bread and butter, I though, but I guess not in 2023?

[Brokkr]

It is also very, very hard to correct a trend through multiple people that ends up with a couple in a bad place based on seeing the trend in the folks before them through just talking to those couple of people.

[Riev]

Is that a fancy way of saying "People already did it and we didn't correct them in time, so the people afterward continued the bad behavior"?

Because I, for one, am on the side that hunters should he hiring Bynners as hunting partners ALL THE TIME. Talk to the Sergeant, hire a Trooper. Pay them a flat fee, or a cut of the profits. Take them out any time you can. Convince the Sergeant to make them a Mercenary. Do whatever it takes.

But I've also been in the Byn when there was no work coming in and someone wanted to pay for a 'scouting' mission and beast-scraps from anything they found in the area. Denied. Not by the Byn, but by the staff who didn't want them hunting, despite no other contracts being available.

[whengravityfails]

Because I, for one, am on the side that hunters should he hiring Bynners as hunting partners ALL THE TIME. Talk to the Sergeant, hire a Trooper. Pay them a flat fee, or a cut of the profits. Take them out any time you can. Convince the Sergeant to make them a Mercenary. Do whatever it takes.

I used to do this with my hunter about a year ago and skinned my kills and paid the Bynner (a Mercenary) who accompanied me a flat fee. Is this no longer kosher?

[DesertT]

Good Byn Sergeants create contracts for their units.

There's a LOT of potential out there that hunting shouldn't be on the docket.

HELPING a hunter; YES!!

But not hunting by themselves.

[Maso]

I tried to hire the Byn to hunt something for me a few years back and it seemed the distinction was they could absolutely do it if they were accompanying and assisting me in hunting a thing. But I couldn't just send them off on a hunting mission while I sat on my butt in Allanak. Which I think is fine? But also sucked because I didn't want to go because it was scary.

[Jimpka_Moss]

The T'zai Byn kill. For profit. I don't think there's any reason to search for broader meaning or debate semantics, it really all boils down to this. The Byn kills things for sid.

It works for every instance that's allowed.

Kill people that try to kill me. (Guard duty)

Kill anything aggressive on my way to X location. (Escort Service)

Kill this guy, but keep it quiet. (Assassination, barely allowed)

Kill this animal. (Hunting accompaniment, and it's only accompaniment because they're not going to carry things for you)

Skin this. Dig that. Greb this. Cut that. Make this. Find this. None of these apply. Only killing. When you join the T'zai Byn, it's because you want to learn how to fight, when you remain in the T'zai Byn, it's because killing is supposed to be easy profit. In the exact right circumstances, it's rewarding to be a Byn Trooper or Sergeant. In other times, there needs to be virtual support because Players can't afford to constantly pay the Byn to kill things on a rate that would reflect realistically 'having a job to do all the time'.

Yeah?

[Trevalyan]

Skin this. Dig that. Greb this. Cut that. Make this. Find this. None of these apply. Only killing. When you join the T'zai Byn, it's because you want to learn how to fight, when you remain in the T'zai Byn, it's because killing is supposed to be easy profit. In the exact right circumstances, it's rewarding to be a Byn Trooper or Sergeant. In other times, there needs to be virtual support because Players can't afford to constantly pay the Byn to kill things on a rate that would reflect realistically 'having a job to do all the time'.

Yeah?

I've never played in an era where the Byn has sergeants who are completely reactive to "higher ranking" players. If players can't afford to pay the Byn for interesting things, interesting things are gonna happen anyways. You can take that to Nenyuk.

[LidlessEye]

The T'zai Byn kill. For profit. I don't think there's any reason to search for broader meaning or debate semantics, it really all boils down to this. The Byn kills things for sid.

It works for every instance that's allowed.

Kill people that try to kill me. (Guard duty)

Kill anything aggressive on my way to X location. (Escort Service)

Kill this guy, but keep it quiet. (Assassination, barely allowed)

Kill this animal. (Hunting accompaniment, and it's only accompaniment because they're not going to carry things for you)

Skin this. Dig that. Greb this. Cut that. Make this. Find this. None of these apply. Only killing. When you join the T'zai Byn, it's because you want to learn how to fight, when you remain in the T'zai Byn, it's because killing is supposed to be easy profit. In the exact right circumstances, it's rewarding to be a Byn Trooper or Sergeant. In other times, there needs to be virtual support because Players can't afford to constantly pay the Byn to kill things on a rate that would reflect realistically 'having a job to do all the time'.

Yeah?

Ostensibly, yes. Bynners are supposed to be killers for hire and if they are making a career out of it, giving up freedom, putting their lives in danger, one should expect to be paid premium rates.
Docs say that the Byn look down on skinning and grebbing jobs, and at the same time are expected to be cheap. Why would someone choose to stay on after a year when they can make much much more hunting, grebbing and crafting from the proceeds and selling the goods thusly derived, in relative safety from the proceeds, if they aren't getting paid a premium?

[Classclown]

Why not just have a hunting division within the Byn? Hunters die regularly, this way you get a steady stream, constantly being trained. They could also handle desert training day and riding lessons for the Runners. They could only deal in volume and/or difficult orders so GMH/independent hunters would still have a purpose. If Troopers leave then you'll still have better trained independent hunters.

[LindseyBalboa]

The T'zai Byn kill. For profit. I don't think there's any reason to search for broader meaning or debate semantics, it really all boils down to this. The Byn kills things for sid.

It works for every instance that's allowed.

Kill people that try to kill me. (Guard duty)

Kill anything aggressive on my way to X location. (Escort Service)

Kill this guy, but keep it quiet. (Assassination, barely allowed)

Kill this animal. (Hunting accompaniment, and it's only accompaniment because they're not going to carry things for you)

Skin this. Dig that. Greb this. Cut that. Make this. Find this. None of these apply. Only killing. When you join the T'zai Byn, it's because you want to learn how to fight, when you remain in the T'zai Byn, it's because killing is supposed to be easy profit. In the exact right circumstances, it's rewarding to be a Byn Trooper or Sergeant. In other times, there needs to be virtual support because Players can't afford to constantly pay the Byn to kill things on a rate that would reflect realistically 'having a job to do all the time'.

Yeah?

Ostensibly, yes. Bynners are supposed to be killers for hire and if they are making a career out of it, giving up freedom, putting their lives in danger, one should expect to be paid premium rates.
Docs say that the Byn look down on skinning and grebbing jobs, and at the same time are expected to be cheap. Why would someone choose to stay on after a year when they can make much much more hunting, grebbing and crafting from the proceeds and selling the goods thusly derived, in relative safety from the proceeds, if they aren't getting paid a premium?

kinda derailing but imo because it doesn't matter to the butcher what the grocer gets paid. if someone is leaving the byn after a year to go hunt, greb, or craft, they weren't lifelong Byn mercenaries. they were crafters, grebbers, or hunters.

[Trevalyan]

Why not just have a hunting division within the Byn? Hunters die regularly, this way you get a steady stream, constantly being trained. They could also handle desert training day and riding lessons for the Runners. They could only deal in volume and/or difficult orders so GMH/independent hunters would still have a purpose. If Troopers leave then you'll still have better trained independent hunters.

Never going to happen. The T'Zai Byn have very active and engaged admin support in both Allanak and Tuluk, possibly because so many players enter the clan. Most of the debate about what they are for is irrelevant: if you can find a Byn Sergeant, what's really going to matter is how much coin you have, more than any high-minded principle. If the Sergeants know the coin isn't worth their officers being mad at them, they'll tell you so.

Many people who enter the clan aren't classed as Heavy Combat Warriors, so while they might choose to train their skills out on patrol I guarantee you that the NPC Byn officers will come down like a ton of bricks on whoever proposes an actual hunting unit.

[Classclown]

I'm talking about a full division Sergeants, Troopers, sanctioned by the NPC leaders who see how much coin they're losing by not having their own hunting units that they can charge GMH and maybe nobles a lot of sid to go kill stuff. It's practically free sid with their training. Why would they turn it down?

[Trevalyan]

Look, setting aside the merits of the idea and whether it would compete with normal hunters and the GMH, the admin in charge of the Byn would kick their asses and the Sergeant would be lucky to not get fined. I'm usually okay with people having suggestions for the Byn, but some ideas are ones the admins have dismissed repeatedly over the years. They will never approve it, and have said so fairly recently.

[ShaiHulud]

In the Byn, play a Byn role. Skirting is fine but is handled icly. Back in the day Byn Kurac...etc...execution for breaking rules. Nowadays, you get a slap o the wrist. What the fuck happened?

[LidlessEye]

Deleted by self.

[MarshallDFX]

Lets try to keep this thread constructive

[Krath]

In the Byn, play a Byn role. Skirting is fine but is handled icly. Back in the day Byn Kurac...etc...execution for breaking rules. Nowadays, you get a slap o the wrist. What the fuck happened?

It still happens

[Inks]

EDIT: I misread this post. Yes Byn should be able to do more sorts of contracts within reason.

But due to numbers they would steamroll a lot of concepts if they were allowed to go full beastmode which wouldn't be great or realistic within the virtual world.

[Master Color]

It is also very, very hard to correct a trend through multiple people that ends up with a couple in a bad place based on seeing the trend in the folks before them through just talking to those couple of people.

Just make expectations clear with concise communication and you've solved 95% of the problem. I don't understand why this is always so hard for staff.

"You can hunt occasionally but please keep in mind you're supposed to be making contracts. Do NOT turn down contracts and then go hunting." There, easy.

And finally, make sure  that the communication is at an ooc level. Staff do this ALL THE TIME. If you animate Copper just to tell your sergeant not to hunt, that's not good communication. The player might reasonably assume that's still okay to hunt behind Copper's back. Animating npcs to yell at players doesn't just miscommunicate expectations, it is also a great way to demoralize the player.