T'zai Byn and hunting

[Krath]

I was wondering folks thoughts on the Byn and not being allowed to be hired to hunt and skin for contracts. As a "mercenary" group, they should be able to take on those contracts. Right now the byn site around and wait for escort contracts 90% of the time. To my understanding, they were not a Pclan, if this is incorrect please correct me.

The documentation does may state that they cannot do hunting contracts, but Why can't they? It does not make any sense, especially so when they are a mercenary company. The caveat that you can kill big game, but you can't skin it for the customer? Why not if they are paying for it.

Ideally, they should be able to take any and all contracts if the price is right..And for the not so savory contracts, accept the repercussions of taking them. If they are not a true mercenary clan, then the name should be changed, T'zai Byn Escorting Service

What are everyone else's thoughts?

Currently They Can only do the following:
1. Guard

Edited to add the following:
Dictionary
Definitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more
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mer·ce·nar·y
/ˈmərsənˌerē/
adjective
primarily concerned with making money at the expense of ethics.

[LindseyBalboa]

the grebbers guild actually negotiated this with the senate like 100-150 years ago in-game. although they've been disbanded and absorbed by House Jal since, House Jal agreed to keep the amendment alive as it falls into line very nicely with their profit margins; they also spend a significant amount making sure that grebbers know about House Jal protecting their livelihoods. Senate/Nobles more than realize that if the Byn started grebbing, skinning, hunting, etc, that the Vrun would empty out quickly and they'd have riots on their hands again because of displaced workers and starvatation.

Back to reality for the guarding part... Byn is 100% allowed to go do violent things on behalf of clients without them there. The Mercenary description lists 'killing for hire' as an option, even. Byn marches off to war without clients there. Byn goes into tunnels and kills shit without clients there, except to wait outside and take the glory.

Byn is defintely one of the clans that thrives with active nobles/GMH, though. They need to be hired.

[Jimpka_Moss]

To my understanding, The Byn can kill anything they're paid to kill. Even big game.

To my understanding, skinning and collecting the raw materials is grunt work, beneath them and not something they can do....

Is this the case or not?

[LetaSpringle]

I interpreted the reason for not skinning that if you fail to collect the parts you were contracted to collect then you don't get paid for the whole mission.  Better to do the killing and make them skin their own stuff. That way you're guaranteed pay.

[Riev]

Staff had statee previous that the reason is the Byn are mercenary SOLDIERS and not hunters for hire. It was a pride thing. I suspect it was also a "they have more opportunity to train martial skills than any hunting clan so force them to leave hunting alone".

The PClan idea of a hunting guild has been attempted and failed to make it a bunch of times, the only one succeeding requiring staff to be directly involved in the clan.

I say maybe review that end of things, and not just "byn can hunt so they should". I see NO reason a hunter cant hire the Byn to help take out exotic beasts, other than exorbitant costs and frustratingly long wait times to schedule with absent staff.

[JohnMichaelHenry]

Thanks Riev. Now I'm ready to go start my loosely connected band of hunters for hire. 

[digitaleak]

I say maybe review that end of things, and not just "byn can hunt so they should". I see NO reason a hunter cant hire the Byn to help take out exotic beasts, other than exorbitant costs and frustratingly long wait times to schedule with absent staff.

I think this is a really important aspect of it. The GMH and nobles can all hire their own hunters, so if a PC wants someone to hunt/skin for them, they have those options outside of the Byn.

[Lotion]

I say maybe review that end of things, and not just "byn can hunt so they should". I see NO reason a hunter cant hire the Byn to help take out exotic beasts, other than exorbitant costs and frustratingly long wait times to schedule with absent staff.

I think this is a really important aspect of it. The GMH and nobles can all hire their own hunters, so if a PC wants someone to hunt/skin for them, they have those options outside of the Byn.

so who should an indie hire to kill a mekillot?
"i am a salt grebber and need protection in the salt flats. Oh no a mekillot! Well, anyways... I think I'll skin it"

[LidlessEye]

I say maybe review that end of things, and not just "byn can hunt so they should". I see NO reason a hunter cant hire the Byn to help take out exotic beasts, other than exorbitant costs and frustratingly long wait times to schedule with absent staff.

I think this is a really important aspect of it. The GMH and nobles can all hire their own hunters, so if a PC wants someone to hunt/skin for them, they have those options outside of the Byn.

so who should an indie hire to kill a mekillot?
"i am a salt grebber and need protection in the salt flats. Oh no a mekillot! Well, anyways... I think I'll skin it"

If they can hire the Byn to take down a Mek, then they can hire some independent hunter to go do the cutting after the beast is dead.

[najdorf]

if they can do it, and its profitable, why not? they are people for hire, whether it is patrol, hunting, construction, grebbing, etc. (as long as they also are ok with it)

[betweenford]

"We're above grebbing and hunter work"

"OH BOY LATRINE DUTY MY FAVORITE. HUP LETS GO SHITCLOAKS WE HAVE A CESS PIT TO CLEAN"

[najdorf]

even in case of preserving dignity, its rarely about such principles. if i m giving 20k to greb some stones outside of nak gates, would you say no? so drop it and get back on your knees bynners, save your pride to afterlife

[Armaddict]

Imagine going to Blackwater or Wagner group and asking them to pick tomatoes or dig ditches for a huge amount of money.

I believe this is just as much about roles in the game as it is about the theme of the Byn.  You don't join the byn if you're just wanting to greb.  You don't join it to search for specific resources.  You join it to train for combat.  You join it to do militarily oriented things.  This is a generalization, of course.  But this feels like its just as much a consideration for the players as it is for the dignity of the company or whatever.

Grebbing, small game consistent hunting, resource acquisition...this has long been the arena of retainer employees, house employees, and indies.  I believe the complaint with the Byn not doing it is it's not as 'easy', but generally speaking, that's also from a lack of trying.  This is exactly why nobles hire aides, why merchants are among the people, etc.  These are the people who it is actually their business to know people capable of this kind of work at all times.  This is their 'shit to do' when they log in.

[Krath]

As someone who worked for Blackwater, in a non-combat based role, you are absolutely wrong. Yes, the main bread and butter IS private security and military based work. There are MANY more services they offer, all for the almighty dollar.

And that is my point. If someone wants to hire the byn to do something, and the price is right, as a "mercenary" organization, they should be able to.

Edited to add: During my time there were no tomato picking jobs

[najdorf]

And that is my point. If someone wants to hire the byn to do something, and the price is right, as a "mercenary" organization, they should be able to.

Especially if they want to. If they dont like it for whatever reason, fine, dont force. whoever wants in unit can join to these secondary out of standard jobs

[Trevalyan]

If you're a Runner, I can definitely see the appeal of any crap job to fill your pocket and become useful. Especially in Tuluk, for a particular side task that also helps the city.

Yet while the Byn can kill and skin animals they come across on contract, they don't take contracts on the most powerful animals, and aren't going to. This is for the best- the GMH's don't need competition, and while some Bynners might craft on the side it's not the point of the group. If you have a problem and some sid, maybe you can talk to a Byn Mercenary (yes, it's a rank) if you're not important enough to talk to a Sergeant.

[Gunnerblaster]

Personally, I like the way it is now. That the Byn can operate as escorts/bodyguards on another Hunter's hunt because they're trained specifically to kill and guard - not in hunting, tracking and skinning animals.

[Krath]

Personally, I like the way it is now. That the Byn can operate as escorts/bodyguards on another Hunter's hunt because they're trained specifically to kill and guard - not in hunting, tracking and skinning animals.

To be clear, I am NOT opposed to this and if staff want that to be the direction then the following should happen.

1. Change the name from a Mercenary Company to a Guarding and escorting organization. Calling them something they are not gives a false pretense. They are NOT a mercenary company.

[LindseyBalboa]

Personally, I like the way it is now. That the Byn can operate as escorts/bodyguards on another Hunter's hunt because they're trained specifically to kill and guard - not in hunting, tracking and skinning animals.

To be clear, I am NOT opposed to this and if staff want that to be the direction then the following should happen.

1. Change the name from a Mercenary Company to a Guarding and escorting organization. Calling them something they are not gives a false pretense. They are NOT a mercenary company.

Elemental temples aren't religious temples. They're still temples in this theme because Zalanthan temples =/= mosques, temples, churches, etc.

The Byn can still go and kill people for money. They can guard. They can escort. They can march to war. They can fight independently. They can explore tunnels. They can go off and search far lands. They can go toss some ruins. They can take murder-for-hire jobs. They're still mercenary in nature.

Hunting/skinning animals is something the Byn should be wary of doing. It opens them up to aggression from d-elf tribes, human tribals, GMH competition, etc. it's a very hard area to be careful in. Conversely, I've recently (outside of an RL year) seen the Byn negotiate to travel into the tablelands to capture specific animals for Borsail.

Mercenary groups are very much allowed to have their own rules on what contracts they'll accept or not.

[cnemus]

The last time I played a Byn leader was a few years ago so my experience may be dated. A lot of changes have taken place since then and I believe staff would be more open to discussion these days.

I was told by staff at the time the Byn could not hunt big game, even for GMH with no hunters. No guarding locations. No patrols. No exploring. No hunting down bounties. No murder. No fighting raiders. Pretty much the ONLY thing we were allowed to do was escort groups or individuals. I found this very stifling and have not been back to the Byn since.

I think if the money is right, it should be up to the sergeant. If they step on the toes of GMH or [redacted], let the offended party pursue revenge how they see fit. Then it becomes more about relationships and balancing interests than following arbitrary rules.

[Krath]

Hey Lindsey,

1. Elementals Temples are religious, as they do [redacted].
2. The Byn cannot take murder/Assassination contracts, I have request to back this up.
3. They cannot get scouting missions
4. They cannot take Grebbing/Hunting missions at all. As it stands, you can't hire a bynner to kill creature 12345.
    What You can do is hire a bynner to guard you, and if creature 12345 attacks you, they will try to protect you and kill it.

95+% of the work they are allowed to do is guarding and escorting. Scouting happens VERY rarely. Like maybe twice an RL year. If you deal with statistics, something that is done less than 5% of the time is considered a non-factor.

5. They will march to war as GUARDS not antagonist. You cannot, and staff correct me if I am wrong, hire the byn to attack the Mul Outpost, delf tribes etc.

6. Mercenary groups, in the real word, are just that. Mercenaries and you are correct, they have rules about what they will and won't take, the won't take is usuall6 based on international, and National laws. I'm not saying we need to bring RL in, but if I offer a byn sarge 50k to kill and skin a mek, and they and they have the skillet to do both, in a realistic environment they are taking thay job. Especially so on zalanthas.

Edited to add: My experience matches Hazelhomwrecker's

[LidlessEye]

Hey Lindsey,

1. Elementals Temples are religious, as they do [redacted].
2. The Byn cannot take murder/Assassination contracts, I have request to back this up.
3. They cannot get scouting missions
4. They cannot take Grebbing/Hunting missions at all. As it stands, you can't hire a bynner to kill creature 12345.
    What You can do is hire a bynner to guard you, and if creature 12345 attacks you, they will try to protect you and kill it.

95+% of the work they are allowed to do is guarding and escorting. Scouting happens VERY rarely. Like maybe twice an RL year. If you deal with statistics, something that is done less than 5% of the time is considered a non-factor.

5. They will march to war as GUARDS not antagonist. You cannot, and staff correct me if I am wrong, hire the byn to attack the Mul Outpost, delf tribes etc.

6. Mercenary groups, in the real word, are just that. Mercenaries and you are correct, they have rules about what they will and won't take, the won't take is usuall6 based on international, and National laws. I'm not saying we need to bring RL in, but if I offer a byn sarge 50k to kill and skin a mek, and they and they have the skillet to do both, in a realistic environment they are taking thay job. Especially so on zalanthas.

Edited to add: My experience matches Hazelhomwrecker's

The Byn can do scouting missions and patrols now.

As for murder/genocide, the political implications must be considered.

They can bring down megafauna as long as the client, or an employee of the client is along to observe or skin.

[whengravityfails]

Hey Lindsey,

1. Elementals Temples are religious, as they do [redacted].
2. The Byn cannot take murder/Assassination contracts, I have request to back this up.
3. They cannot get scouting missions
4. They cannot take Grebbing/Hunting missions at all. As it stands, you can't hire a bynner to kill creature 12345.
    What You can do is hire a bynner to guard you, and if creature 12345 attacks you, they will try to protect you and kill it.

95+% of the work they are allowed to do is guarding and escorting. Scouting happens VERY rarely. Like maybe twice an RL year. If you deal with statistics, something that is done less than 5% of the time is considered a non-factor.

5. They will march to war as GUARDS not antagonist. You cannot, and staff correct me if I am wrong, hire the byn to attack the Mul Outpost, delf tribes etc.

6. Mercenary groups, in the real word, are just that. Mercenaries and you are correct, they have rules about what they will and won't take, the won't take is usuall6 based on international, and National laws. I'm not saying we need to bring RL in, but if I offer a byn sarge 50k to kill and skin a mek, and they and they have the skillet to do both, in a realistic environment they are taking thay job. Especially so on zalanthas.

Edited to add: My experience matches Hazelhomwrecker's

The Byn can do scouting missions and patrols now.

As for murder/genocide, the political implications must be considered.

They can bring down megafauna as long as the client, or an employee of the client is along to observe or skin.

What Lidless said is certainly true, at least within this past year. That leaves a lot of options open besides just guarding/escorting. As far as calling themselves a Mercenary company, who cares? When has anything anyone has called themselves ever had to be a hundred percent true, especially in the subjective eyes of one person?

[JohnMichaelHenry]

This statement is what I personally believe to be true. I have no RL experience with mercenaries, but I am an old soldier. 

Mercenaries in RL are/were traditionally soldiers who fight for the side that pays the most, and it's all about the money, no moral compass needed.  Some individual mercs take on assassination contracts.

In OUR world, I'd say let the byn decide if they want to take on ANY job if the price is right. Mostly because it would boost gameplay, and make being in the byn more fun. RL definitions are fine for guidelines, but it sucks to have to adhere to them in our fantasy land.  I do think Sarges should not make Runners come along on these sorts of contracts. Probably should be more voluntary than escorts. IMHO.

[Inks]

Everything is subjective, really. I've seen the Byn take assassination jobs in the past, and bank the coins under a less suspicious job name. The Byn can't be seen to be doing assassinations though, for political and peace reasons. Eventually it will come around to bite them if they are open about it. That being said if a bounty rides up to your group...why not?

Most of the time on my antagonist PCs, my experience is the Byn doesn't want that smoke, which makes sense IC.

The Byn can take more sorts of jobs than they used to. Or maybe they can't. Find out IC.

[digitaleak]

While a job might offer 50k coin, it might also unnecessarily risk the lives of a Sergeant's entire unit (including their own life) in one fell swoop or affect current IC relationships/deals/etc. The Byn wants to make money, but they also need to stay neutral politically and stay alive for future work. And they are rarely skilled hunters/grebbers. It would be really foolish to ask the combat-oriented clan to skin a rare and/or powerful beast instead of the GMH with masterful hunters. If someone wants the Byns protection and combat prowess, negotiate with the Sergeants and include the GMH or Indie hunters. Come to an agreement that works IC and utilizes the various skill sets of the different clans in the game.

[Lotion]

holy shit the byn are neoliberals

[SpyGuy]

The problem is usually the price of the Byn for folks like the GMH.  Going after megafauna should be expensive because it can wipe a unit. Unless the GMH have a serious need for the items in question and can charge a ridiculous amount for that silt horror or whatever it doesn't make financial sense to hire the Byn.

Smaller jobs, stuff that requires maybe 2-4 decently trained PCs, is much more doable for the current set up of GMH and player clan hunters.  If the mercenaries will accept a few small each for a day then you can get a reasonably safe ride out to wherever, can be lots of fun.  Still need to have a trained up hunter with the authority and interest to hire those mercenaries though for mini-adventures.

[digitaleak]

I do agree the price seems to be what creates a lot of tension between the Byn and players. I'd say that prompts the opportunity for fun IC negotiations that aren't always financial. But the point is the Byn is not a hunting house/clan, it's just not their focus or expertise.

[Brokkr]

To me, the Byn are mercenaries in the sense of the noun, not necessarily the adjective.  Perhaps using the term Soldier of Fortune better encompasses this than does mercenary.  They are soldiers in a private military organization.

My memory is a bit hazy, but if I am remembering correctly, the hard stance on hunting came about due to player actions.  There were a couple of Byn leaders that instead of doing occasional hunting, or taking contracts for hunting, were more or less ignoring requests for normal contracts and instead taking the unit out for hunting and just selling the stuff to shops and making money that way.

[Riev]

It is far easier to punish the group than to correct the single. /sarcasm

In times of 'nothing going on', hunting contracts should be alright. As part of Wilderness Survival training, learning what plants and creatures are worth skinning, etc. Megafauna have always been a Byn's bread and butter, I though, but I guess not in 2023?

[Brokkr]

It is also very, very hard to correct a trend through multiple people that ends up with a couple in a bad place based on seeing the trend in the folks before them through just talking to those couple of people.

[Riev]

Is that a fancy way of saying "People already did it and we didn't correct them in time, so the people afterward continued the bad behavior"?

Because I, for one, am on the side that hunters should he hiring Bynners as hunting partners ALL THE TIME. Talk to the Sergeant, hire a Trooper. Pay them a flat fee, or a cut of the profits. Take them out any time you can. Convince the Sergeant to make them a Mercenary. Do whatever it takes.

But I've also been in the Byn when there was no work coming in and someone wanted to pay for a 'scouting' mission and beast-scraps from anything they found in the area. Denied. Not by the Byn, but by the staff who didn't want them hunting, despite no other contracts being available.

[whengravityfails]

Because I, for one, am on the side that hunters should he hiring Bynners as hunting partners ALL THE TIME. Talk to the Sergeant, hire a Trooper. Pay them a flat fee, or a cut of the profits. Take them out any time you can. Convince the Sergeant to make them a Mercenary. Do whatever it takes.

I used to do this with my hunter about a year ago and skinned my kills and paid the Bynner (a Mercenary) who accompanied me a flat fee. Is this no longer kosher?

[DesertT]

Good Byn Sergeants create contracts for their units.

There's a LOT of potential out there that hunting shouldn't be on the docket.

HELPING a hunter; YES!!

But not hunting by themselves.

[Maso]

I tried to hire the Byn to hunt something for me a few years back and it seemed the distinction was they could absolutely do it if they were accompanying and assisting me in hunting a thing. But I couldn't just send them off on a hunting mission while I sat on my butt in Allanak. Which I think is fine? But also sucked because I didn't want to go because it was scary.

[Jimpka_Moss]

The T'zai Byn kill. For profit. I don't think there's any reason to search for broader meaning or debate semantics, it really all boils down to this. The Byn kills things for sid.

It works for every instance that's allowed.

Kill people that try to kill me. (Guard duty)

Kill anything aggressive on my way to X location. (Escort Service)

Kill this guy, but keep it quiet. (Assassination, barely allowed)

Kill this animal. (Hunting accompaniment, and it's only accompaniment because they're not going to carry things for you)

Skin this. Dig that. Greb this. Cut that. Make this. Find this. None of these apply. Only killing. When you join the T'zai Byn, it's because you want to learn how to fight, when you remain in the T'zai Byn, it's because killing is supposed to be easy profit. In the exact right circumstances, it's rewarding to be a Byn Trooper or Sergeant. In other times, there needs to be virtual support because Players can't afford to constantly pay the Byn to kill things on a rate that would reflect realistically 'having a job to do all the time'.

Yeah?

[Trevalyan]

Skin this. Dig that. Greb this. Cut that. Make this. Find this. None of these apply. Only killing. When you join the T'zai Byn, it's because you want to learn how to fight, when you remain in the T'zai Byn, it's because killing is supposed to be easy profit. In the exact right circumstances, it's rewarding to be a Byn Trooper or Sergeant. In other times, there needs to be virtual support because Players can't afford to constantly pay the Byn to kill things on a rate that would reflect realistically 'having a job to do all the time'.

Yeah?

I've never played in an era where the Byn has sergeants who are completely reactive to "higher ranking" players. If players can't afford to pay the Byn for interesting things, interesting things are gonna happen anyways. You can take that to Nenyuk.

[LidlessEye]

The T'zai Byn kill. For profit. I don't think there's any reason to search for broader meaning or debate semantics, it really all boils down to this. The Byn kills things for sid.

It works for every instance that's allowed.

Kill people that try to kill me. (Guard duty)

Kill anything aggressive on my way to X location. (Escort Service)

Kill this guy, but keep it quiet. (Assassination, barely allowed)

Kill this animal. (Hunting accompaniment, and it's only accompaniment because they're not going to carry things for you)

Skin this. Dig that. Greb this. Cut that. Make this. Find this. None of these apply. Only killing. When you join the T'zai Byn, it's because you want to learn how to fight, when you remain in the T'zai Byn, it's because killing is supposed to be easy profit. In the exact right circumstances, it's rewarding to be a Byn Trooper or Sergeant. In other times, there needs to be virtual support because Players can't afford to constantly pay the Byn to kill things on a rate that would reflect realistically 'having a job to do all the time'.

Yeah?

Ostensibly, yes. Bynners are supposed to be killers for hire and if they are making a career out of it, giving up freedom, putting their lives in danger, one should expect to be paid premium rates.
Docs say that the Byn look down on skinning and grebbing jobs, and at the same time are expected to be cheap. Why would someone choose to stay on after a year when they can make much much more hunting, grebbing and crafting from the proceeds and selling the goods thusly derived, in relative safety from the proceeds, if they aren't getting paid a premium?

[Classclown]

Why not just have a hunting division within the Byn? Hunters die regularly, this way you get a steady stream, constantly being trained. They could also handle desert training day and riding lessons for the Runners. They could only deal in volume and/or difficult orders so GMH/independent hunters would still have a purpose. If Troopers leave then you'll still have better trained independent hunters.

[LindseyBalboa]

The T'zai Byn kill. For profit. I don't think there's any reason to search for broader meaning or debate semantics, it really all boils down to this. The Byn kills things for sid.

It works for every instance that's allowed.

Kill people that try to kill me. (Guard duty)

Kill anything aggressive on my way to X location. (Escort Service)

Kill this guy, but keep it quiet. (Assassination, barely allowed)

Kill this animal. (Hunting accompaniment, and it's only accompaniment because they're not going to carry things for you)

Skin this. Dig that. Greb this. Cut that. Make this. Find this. None of these apply. Only killing. When you join the T'zai Byn, it's because you want to learn how to fight, when you remain in the T'zai Byn, it's because killing is supposed to be easy profit. In the exact right circumstances, it's rewarding to be a Byn Trooper or Sergeant. In other times, there needs to be virtual support because Players can't afford to constantly pay the Byn to kill things on a rate that would reflect realistically 'having a job to do all the time'.

Yeah?

Ostensibly, yes. Bynners are supposed to be killers for hire and if they are making a career out of it, giving up freedom, putting their lives in danger, one should expect to be paid premium rates.
Docs say that the Byn look down on skinning and grebbing jobs, and at the same time are expected to be cheap. Why would someone choose to stay on after a year when they can make much much more hunting, grebbing and crafting from the proceeds and selling the goods thusly derived, in relative safety from the proceeds, if they aren't getting paid a premium?

kinda derailing but imo because it doesn't matter to the butcher what the grocer gets paid. if someone is leaving the byn after a year to go hunt, greb, or craft, they weren't lifelong Byn mercenaries. they were crafters, grebbers, or hunters.

[Trevalyan]

Why not just have a hunting division within the Byn? Hunters die regularly, this way you get a steady stream, constantly being trained. They could also handle desert training day and riding lessons for the Runners. They could only deal in volume and/or difficult orders so GMH/independent hunters would still have a purpose. If Troopers leave then you'll still have better trained independent hunters.

Never going to happen. The T'Zai Byn have very active and engaged admin support in both Allanak and Tuluk, possibly because so many players enter the clan. Most of the debate about what they are for is irrelevant: if you can find a Byn Sergeant, what's really going to matter is how much coin you have, more than any high-minded principle. If the Sergeants know the coin isn't worth their officers being mad at them, they'll tell you so.

Many people who enter the clan aren't classed as Heavy Combat Warriors, so while they might choose to train their skills out on patrol I guarantee you that the NPC Byn officers will come down like a ton of bricks on whoever proposes an actual hunting unit.

[Classclown]

I'm talking about a full division Sergeants, Troopers, sanctioned by the NPC leaders who see how much coin they're losing by not having their own hunting units that they can charge GMH and maybe nobles a lot of sid to go kill stuff. It's practically free sid with their training. Why would they turn it down?

[Trevalyan]

Look, setting aside the merits of the idea and whether it would compete with normal hunters and the GMH, the admin in charge of the Byn would kick their asses and the Sergeant would be lucky to not get fined. I'm usually okay with people having suggestions for the Byn, but some ideas are ones the admins have dismissed repeatedly over the years. They will never approve it, and have said so fairly recently.

[ShaiHulud]

In the Byn, play a Byn role. Skirting is fine but is handled icly. Back in the day Byn Kurac...etc...execution for breaking rules. Nowadays, you get a slap o the wrist. What the fuck happened?

[LidlessEye]

Deleted by self.

[MarshallDFX]

Lets try to keep this thread constructive

[Krath]

In the Byn, play a Byn role. Skirting is fine but is handled icly. Back in the day Byn Kurac...etc...execution for breaking rules. Nowadays, you get a slap o the wrist. What the fuck happened?

It still happens

[Inks]

EDIT: I misread this post. Yes Byn should be able to do more sorts of contracts within reason.

But due to numbers they would steamroll a lot of concepts if they were allowed to go full beastmode which wouldn't be great or realistic within the virtual world.

[Master Color]

It is also very, very hard to correct a trend through multiple people that ends up with a couple in a bad place based on seeing the trend in the folks before them through just talking to those couple of people.

Just make expectations clear with concise communication and you've solved 95% of the problem. I don't understand why this is always so hard for staff.

"You can hunt occasionally but please keep in mind you're supposed to be making contracts. Do NOT turn down contracts and then go hunting." There, easy.

And finally, make sure  that the communication is at an ooc level. Staff do this ALL THE TIME. If you animate Copper just to tell your sergeant not to hunt, that's not good communication. The player might reasonably assume that's still okay to hunt behind Copper's back. Animating npcs to yell at players doesn't just miscommunicate expectations, it is also a great way to demoralize the player.

[Master Color]

In the Byn, play a Byn role. Skirting is fine but is handled icly. Back in the day Byn Kurac...etc...execution for breaking rules. Nowadays, you get a slap o the wrist. What the fuck happened?

It still happens

This has always been pretty stupid. I can see harsh penalties for treason, fucking about and endangering people during outings etc.

Killing your runner because they wandered into the rinth or they foraged two rooms outside the gate? Fuck off with that.

[Kaathe]

Docs say that the Byn look down on skinning and grebbing jobs, and at the same time are expected to be cheap. Why would someone choose to stay on after a year when they can make much much more hunting, grebbing and crafting from the proceeds and selling the goods thusly derived, in relative safety from the proceeds, if they aren't getting paid a premium

The byn are supposed to be cheap? I'm not byn staffer or even on that team but I've been around and never heard that.

Why would a hunter played by a player who enjoys the solo sid grind more than mercenary RP stay a  trooper? I don't expect they would nor should they.  Grebbers surviving and getting rich is something PCs do not vnpcs so it's not a question of "realism" as much as what kind of RP you want.

[Inks]

Nice one Kaathe. I have also never heard of this. Full disclosure I once a few years at least ago assassinated a mindworm as a Bynner for a 20k bounty, and handed 2k to my Sargeant (without telling my Sargeant any details or just how much I had made, other than it was blood money) who misreported it to her commander as something else, everyone got paid and staff didn't flip out or anything, because it was done professionally and if it doesn't cause the Byn dramas and nobody knows did it ever happen?

The same Sargeant kicked me out from the Byn later for taking assassination contracts (it was just that one and she had asked me to moonlight doing that) when I discovered some other shady stuff she was involved with, which is perfectly ic well executed politics.

In terms of wasting stuff in the terrains, I mean if you are doing that all the time and not contributing your Sarge or NPC commander can and should boot you to the curb. If you make yourself useful enough to the company for your Sargeant to blind eye some stuff now and then then that's IC between your PC and them.

I like the way Byn cant go rekking big critters without a client present paying for it, after all Byn are fulfilling an important RP role of hired goons, and if a goon goons in the forest and nobody is there to goon for did they goon at all?