T'zai Byn and hunting

[Krath]

I was wondering folks thoughts on the Byn and not being allowed to be hired to hunt and skin for contracts. As a "mercenary" group, they should be able to take on those contracts. Right now the byn site around and wait for escort contracts 90% of the time. To my understanding, they were not a Pclan, if this is incorrect please correct me.

The documentation does may state that they cannot do hunting contracts, but Why can't they? It does not make any sense, especially so when they are a mercenary company. The caveat that you can kill big game, but you can't skin it for the customer? Why not if they are paying for it.

Ideally, they should be able to take any and all contracts if the price is right..And for the not so savory contracts, accept the repercussions of taking them. If they are not a true mercenary clan, then the name should be changed, T'zai Byn Escorting Service

What are everyone else's thoughts?

Currently They Can only do the following:
1. Guard

Edited to add the following:
Dictionary
Definitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more
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mer·ce·nar·y
/ˈmərsənˌerē/
adjective
primarily concerned with making money at the expense of ethics.

[LindseyBalboa]

the grebbers guild actually negotiated this with the senate like 100-150 years ago in-game. although they've been disbanded and absorbed by House Jal since, House Jal agreed to keep the amendment alive as it falls into line very nicely with their profit margins; they also spend a significant amount making sure that grebbers know about House Jal protecting their livelihoods. Senate/Nobles more than realize that if the Byn started grebbing, skinning, hunting, etc, that the Vrun would empty out quickly and they'd have riots on their hands again because of displaced workers and starvatation.

Back to reality for the guarding part... Byn is 100% allowed to go do violent things on behalf of clients without them there. The Mercenary description lists 'killing for hire' as an option, even. Byn marches off to war without clients there. Byn goes into tunnels and kills shit without clients there, except to wait outside and take the glory.

Byn is defintely one of the clans that thrives with active nobles/GMH, though. They need to be hired.

[Jimpka_Moss]

To my understanding, The Byn can kill anything they're paid to kill. Even big game.

To my understanding, skinning and collecting the raw materials is grunt work, beneath them and not something they can do....

Is this the case or not?

[LetaSpringle]

I interpreted the reason for not skinning that if you fail to collect the parts you were contracted to collect then you don't get paid for the whole mission.  Better to do the killing and make them skin their own stuff. That way you're guaranteed pay.

[Riev]

Staff had statee previous that the reason is the Byn are mercenary SOLDIERS and not hunters for hire. It was a pride thing. I suspect it was also a "they have more opportunity to train martial skills than any hunting clan so force them to leave hunting alone".

The PClan idea of a hunting guild has been attempted and failed to make it a bunch of times, the only one succeeding requiring staff to be directly involved in the clan.

I say maybe review that end of things, and not just "byn can hunt so they should". I see NO reason a hunter cant hire the Byn to help take out exotic beasts, other than exorbitant costs and frustratingly long wait times to schedule with absent staff.

[JohnMichaelHenry]

Thanks Riev. Now I'm ready to go start my loosely connected band of hunters for hire. 

[digitaleak]

I say maybe review that end of things, and not just "byn can hunt so they should". I see NO reason a hunter cant hire the Byn to help take out exotic beasts, other than exorbitant costs and frustratingly long wait times to schedule with absent staff.

I think this is a really important aspect of it. The GMH and nobles can all hire their own hunters, so if a PC wants someone to hunt/skin for them, they have those options outside of the Byn.

[Lotion]

I say maybe review that end of things, and not just "byn can hunt so they should". I see NO reason a hunter cant hire the Byn to help take out exotic beasts, other than exorbitant costs and frustratingly long wait times to schedule with absent staff.

I think this is a really important aspect of it. The GMH and nobles can all hire their own hunters, so if a PC wants someone to hunt/skin for them, they have those options outside of the Byn.

so who should an indie hire to kill a mekillot?
"i am a salt grebber and need protection in the salt flats. Oh no a mekillot! Well, anyways... I think I'll skin it"

[LidlessEye]

I say maybe review that end of things, and not just "byn can hunt so they should". I see NO reason a hunter cant hire the Byn to help take out exotic beasts, other than exorbitant costs and frustratingly long wait times to schedule with absent staff.

I think this is a really important aspect of it. The GMH and nobles can all hire their own hunters, so if a PC wants someone to hunt/skin for them, they have those options outside of the Byn.

so who should an indie hire to kill a mekillot?
"i am a salt grebber and need protection in the salt flats. Oh no a mekillot! Well, anyways... I think I'll skin it"

If they can hire the Byn to take down a Mek, then they can hire some independent hunter to go do the cutting after the beast is dead.

[najdorf]

if they can do it, and its profitable, why not? they are people for hire, whether it is patrol, hunting, construction, grebbing, etc. (as long as they also are ok with it)

[betweenford]

"We're above grebbing and hunter work"

"OH BOY LATRINE DUTY MY FAVORITE. HUP LETS GO SHITCLOAKS WE HAVE A CESS PIT TO CLEAN"

[najdorf]

even in case of preserving dignity, its rarely about such principles. if i m giving 20k to greb some stones outside of nak gates, would you say no? so drop it and get back on your knees bynners, save your pride to afterlife

[Armaddict]

Imagine going to Blackwater or Wagner group and asking them to pick tomatoes or dig ditches for a huge amount of money.

I believe this is just as much about roles in the game as it is about the theme of the Byn.  You don't join the byn if you're just wanting to greb.  You don't join it to search for specific resources.  You join it to train for combat.  You join it to do militarily oriented things.  This is a generalization, of course.  But this feels like its just as much a consideration for the players as it is for the dignity of the company or whatever.

Grebbing, small game consistent hunting, resource acquisition...this has long been the arena of retainer employees, house employees, and indies.  I believe the complaint with the Byn not doing it is it's not as 'easy', but generally speaking, that's also from a lack of trying.  This is exactly why nobles hire aides, why merchants are among the people, etc.  These are the people who it is actually their business to know people capable of this kind of work at all times.  This is their 'shit to do' when they log in.

[Krath]

As someone who worked for Blackwater, in a non-combat based role, you are absolutely wrong. Yes, the main bread and butter IS private security and military based work. There are MANY more services they offer, all for the almighty dollar.

And that is my point. If someone wants to hire the byn to do something, and the price is right, as a "mercenary" organization, they should be able to.

Edited to add: During my time there were no tomato picking jobs

[najdorf]

And that is my point. If someone wants to hire the byn to do something, and the price is right, as a "mercenary" organization, they should be able to.

Especially if they want to. If they dont like it for whatever reason, fine, dont force. whoever wants in unit can join to these secondary out of standard jobs

[Trevalyan]

If you're a Runner, I can definitely see the appeal of any crap job to fill your pocket and become useful. Especially in Tuluk, for a particular side task that also helps the city.

Yet while the Byn can kill and skin animals they come across on contract, they don't take contracts on the most powerful animals, and aren't going to. This is for the best- the GMH's don't need competition, and while some Bynners might craft on the side it's not the point of the group. If you have a problem and some sid, maybe you can talk to a Byn Mercenary (yes, it's a rank) if you're not important enough to talk to a Sergeant.

[Gunnerblaster]

Personally, I like the way it is now. That the Byn can operate as escorts/bodyguards on another Hunter's hunt because they're trained specifically to kill and guard - not in hunting, tracking and skinning animals.

[Krath]

Personally, I like the way it is now. That the Byn can operate as escorts/bodyguards on another Hunter's hunt because they're trained specifically to kill and guard - not in hunting, tracking and skinning animals.

To be clear, I am NOT opposed to this and if staff want that to be the direction then the following should happen.

1. Change the name from a Mercenary Company to a Guarding and escorting organization. Calling them something they are not gives a false pretense. They are NOT a mercenary company.

[LindseyBalboa]

Personally, I like the way it is now. That the Byn can operate as escorts/bodyguards on another Hunter's hunt because they're trained specifically to kill and guard - not in hunting, tracking and skinning animals.

To be clear, I am NOT opposed to this and if staff want that to be the direction then the following should happen.

1. Change the name from a Mercenary Company to a Guarding and escorting organization. Calling them something they are not gives a false pretense. They are NOT a mercenary company.

Elemental temples aren't religious temples. They're still temples in this theme because Zalanthan temples =/= mosques, temples, churches, etc.

The Byn can still go and kill people for money. They can guard. They can escort. They can march to war. They can fight independently. They can explore tunnels. They can go off and search far lands. They can go toss some ruins. They can take murder-for-hire jobs. They're still mercenary in nature.

Hunting/skinning animals is something the Byn should be wary of doing. It opens them up to aggression from d-elf tribes, human tribals, GMH competition, etc. it's a very hard area to be careful in. Conversely, I've recently (outside of an RL year) seen the Byn negotiate to travel into the tablelands to capture specific animals for Borsail.

Mercenary groups are very much allowed to have their own rules on what contracts they'll accept or not.

[cnemus]

The last time I played a Byn leader was a few years ago so my experience may be dated. A lot of changes have taken place since then and I believe staff would be more open to discussion these days.

I was told by staff at the time the Byn could not hunt big game, even for GMH with no hunters. No guarding locations. No patrols. No exploring. No hunting down bounties. No murder. No fighting raiders. Pretty much the ONLY thing we were allowed to do was escort groups or individuals. I found this very stifling and have not been back to the Byn since.

I think if the money is right, it should be up to the sergeant. If they step on the toes of GMH or [redacted], let the offended party pursue revenge how they see fit. Then it becomes more about relationships and balancing interests than following arbitrary rules.

[Krath]

Hey Lindsey,

1. Elementals Temples are religious, as they do [redacted].
2. The Byn cannot take murder/Assassination contracts, I have request to back this up.
3. They cannot get scouting missions
4. They cannot take Grebbing/Hunting missions at all. As it stands, you can't hire a bynner to kill creature 12345.
    What You can do is hire a bynner to guard you, and if creature 12345 attacks you, they will try to protect you and kill it.

95+% of the work they are allowed to do is guarding and escorting. Scouting happens VERY rarely. Like maybe twice an RL year. If you deal with statistics, something that is done less than 5% of the time is considered a non-factor.

5. They will march to war as GUARDS not antagonist. You cannot, and staff correct me if I am wrong, hire the byn to attack the Mul Outpost, delf tribes etc.

6. Mercenary groups, in the real word, are just that. Mercenaries and you are correct, they have rules about what they will and won't take, the won't take is usuall6 based on international, and National laws. I'm not saying we need to bring RL in, but if I offer a byn sarge 50k to kill and skin a mek, and they and they have the skillet to do both, in a realistic environment they are taking thay job. Especially so on zalanthas.

Edited to add: My experience matches Hazelhomwrecker's

[LidlessEye]

Hey Lindsey,

1. Elementals Temples are religious, as they do [redacted].
2. The Byn cannot take murder/Assassination contracts, I have request to back this up.
3. They cannot get scouting missions
4. They cannot take Grebbing/Hunting missions at all. As it stands, you can't hire a bynner to kill creature 12345.
    What You can do is hire a bynner to guard you, and if creature 12345 attacks you, they will try to protect you and kill it.

95+% of the work they are allowed to do is guarding and escorting. Scouting happens VERY rarely. Like maybe twice an RL year. If you deal with statistics, something that is done less than 5% of the time is considered a non-factor.

5. They will march to war as GUARDS not antagonist. You cannot, and staff correct me if I am wrong, hire the byn to attack the Mul Outpost, delf tribes etc.

6. Mercenary groups, in the real word, are just that. Mercenaries and you are correct, they have rules about what they will and won't take, the won't take is usuall6 based on international, and National laws. I'm not saying we need to bring RL in, but if I offer a byn sarge 50k to kill and skin a mek, and they and they have the skillet to do both, in a realistic environment they are taking thay job. Especially so on zalanthas.

Edited to add: My experience matches Hazelhomwrecker's

The Byn can do scouting missions and patrols now.

As for murder/genocide, the political implications must be considered.

They can bring down megafauna as long as the client, or an employee of the client is along to observe or skin.

[whengravityfails]

Hey Lindsey,

1. Elementals Temples are religious, as they do [redacted].
2. The Byn cannot take murder/Assassination contracts, I have request to back this up.
3. They cannot get scouting missions
4. They cannot take Grebbing/Hunting missions at all. As it stands, you can't hire a bynner to kill creature 12345.
    What You can do is hire a bynner to guard you, and if creature 12345 attacks you, they will try to protect you and kill it.

95+% of the work they are allowed to do is guarding and escorting. Scouting happens VERY rarely. Like maybe twice an RL year. If you deal with statistics, something that is done less than 5% of the time is considered a non-factor.

5. They will march to war as GUARDS not antagonist. You cannot, and staff correct me if I am wrong, hire the byn to attack the Mul Outpost, delf tribes etc.

6. Mercenary groups, in the real word, are just that. Mercenaries and you are correct, they have rules about what they will and won't take, the won't take is usuall6 based on international, and National laws. I'm not saying we need to bring RL in, but if I offer a byn sarge 50k to kill and skin a mek, and they and they have the skillet to do both, in a realistic environment they are taking thay job. Especially so on zalanthas.

Edited to add: My experience matches Hazelhomwrecker's

The Byn can do scouting missions and patrols now.

As for murder/genocide, the political implications must be considered.

They can bring down megafauna as long as the client, or an employee of the client is along to observe or skin.

What Lidless said is certainly true, at least within this past year. That leaves a lot of options open besides just guarding/escorting. As far as calling themselves a Mercenary company, who cares? When has anything anyone has called themselves ever had to be a hundred percent true, especially in the subjective eyes of one person?

[JohnMichaelHenry]

This statement is what I personally believe to be true. I have no RL experience with mercenaries, but I am an old soldier. 

Mercenaries in RL are/were traditionally soldiers who fight for the side that pays the most, and it's all about the money, no moral compass needed.  Some individual mercs take on assassination contracts.

In OUR world, I'd say let the byn decide if they want to take on ANY job if the price is right. Mostly because it would boost gameplay, and make being in the byn more fun. RL definitions are fine for guidelines, but it sucks to have to adhere to them in our fantasy land.  I do think Sarges should not make Runners come along on these sorts of contracts. Probably should be more voluntary than escorts. IMHO.

[Inks]

Everything is subjective, really. I've seen the Byn take assassination jobs in the past, and bank the coins under a less suspicious job name. The Byn can't be seen to be doing assassinations though, for political and peace reasons. Eventually it will come around to bite them if they are open about it. That being said if a bounty rides up to your group...why not?

Most of the time on my antagonist PCs, my experience is the Byn doesn't want that smoke, which makes sense IC.

The Byn can take more sorts of jobs than they used to. Or maybe they can't. Find out IC.