Re: Mage Social Standing in Ask the Staff

[Windstorm]

I keep trying step away from this but it just gets more and more outlandish in ways.

I feel like a lot of times people read theme shit and go, "How can I get around this..."

Why are you assuming anyone's intent? Can it not be that people just play roles and things develop organically? That some PCs' lives take them places that are separate from the norm? That there isn't some sinister intent to undermine documentation? That you don't know everything about every PC?

[Pariah]

I keep trying step away from this but it just gets more and more outlandish in ways.

I feel like a lot of times people read theme shit and go, "How can I get around this..."

Why are you assuming anyone's intent? Can it not be that people just play roles and things develop organically? That some PCs' lives take them places that are separate from the norm? That there isn't some sinister intent to undermine documentation? That you don't know everything about every PC?

You're right, I don't know your desires at all, I just have my perceptions.  People can have opinions.

[mansa]

In my opinion,

It is hard for those of us who have grown up in western culture to understand social hierarchy, since the philosophy of liberalism is one that is a fundamental of our culture and government.


In the world of Zalanthas, there is no underlying philosophy.


You could consider it this:
There is a great feast being prepared by Merchant House Kadius, with enough food for everyone in the city, in a table that is unlimited in length.  There is the 'head' of the table, which Tektolnes sits at.

Who is announced to the population as a whole, who is next?  And where do they sit?
And you go down the line, for every social group in Allanak.
The full society is watching the protocol announcer - they will announce who is next, and who gets seated where.   And the rest of the society is watching and waiting their turn to sit down at this infinitely long table and eat.   Socially, with everyone together peacefully.  That's the goal of protocol.

Remember, this is the social structure defined by those who run the society - Tektolnes and his templars.  This social structure helpfile is defined from the top down.

[wizturbo]

Remember, this is the social structure defined by those who run the society - Tektolnes and his templars.  This social structure helpfile is defined from the top down.

This is the guiding principle of what "social status" means in Allanak.  If Tektolnes suddenly declared Gemmed to be the new nobility, there would be riots and turmoil, maybe even outright rebellions, but unless there was someone more powerful than Tektolnes to step in...that's the new social status.  Shut up and obey, or burn like the rest of them. 

So with that said, Gemmed's social status (just like everyone else) is 100% defined by what Tektolnes (through his Templars) decides it to be.  Currently, that social status is lower than most citizens, except for the Gemmed they think are important, or the handful of Gemmed that others the Templarate has allowed to have high standing think are important.  And in those cases, their standing is higher, but still not as high as a similarly important person who doesn't wear the Gem.

With that said, how much an individual person likes or dislikes someone based on their social standing varies wildly.  A criminal won't give a shit about social status in most cases.  A tribal may not care what Tek thinks about nobility being more important than soldiers.  Individuals may think magick is rad, because both of their parents were mages who took them on the magick waterslide ride.  There's room for people to play whatever characters they want, and no one on this GDB can tell them what's right for their character's background and perspective on the world.  All they can do is react to their avant garde perspective appropriately...  as all of the perspectives I listed above would probably be met with hostility as deviants. 

If you're looking to earn Karma, by proving you actually understand what the world's norms are, you should probably play characters that follow saids norms rather than the exception.  But if you don't care about that, play whatever you want and be prepared for random internet people to tell you how wrong you are on the GDB, citing documentation written 20 years ago like a bible passage as backup for their opinions.

[Windstorm]

It is hard for those of us who have grown up in western culture to understand social hierarchy, since the philosophy of liberalism is one that is a fundamental of our culture and government.

I'm not certain where liberalism or any idea of "gemmed rights" came into the conversation rather than the idea of personal achievement being something that I wish was even allowed or considered instead of the absolute worst assumptions being leapt to from a lot of people on high horses. Allanakis in general have no rights but what the templarate says they do. I haven't intended to allude to anything opposed at all but I get that OOC communication flourishes in all kinds of unexpected directions and I can't keep track of some of that.

My issue, in short, is with low ceilings, a lack of agency, and a general sense that PCs aren't allowed to do anything in the world that even barely elevates themselves without OOC rage and a constant barrage of hate ensuing.

Officially unplugging.

[wizturbo]

It is hard for those of us who have grown up in western culture to understand social hierarchy, since the philosophy of liberalism is one that is a fundamental of our culture and government.

I'm not certain where liberalism or any idea of "gemmed rights" came into the conversation...

All I think Mansa is saying here is that practically no one who plays this game grew up in a caste society or under any social system where a person's station is rigidly informed based on something other than their own personal charisma, wealth, or capabilities.  The word "liberalism" is a loaded term, and he shouldn't have used it imo.

[Brokkr]

I think he was using it to illustrate that the idea that personal achievement can elevate an individual, at all, is kind of embedded in liberal societies but not really in caste societies.

[wizturbo]

I think he was using it to illustrate that the idea that personal achievement can elevate an individual, at all, is kind of embedded in liberal societies but not really in caste societies.

Yup, agreed.  But by the same virtue, in Allanak at least, the divide between noble and commoner is so enormously wide that the difference between all the commoner level wrungs of the ladder are minimally different at best.   All of the commoner "castes" are so close together, they're largely just bragging rights in comparison to the status differences between them and even the lowest ranking noble child.

A human Private in the Arm has more in common with a Gemmed/Elf/Rinthi/Mutant in status than any commoner achievable status has in common with a real noble.

[Agent_137]

My issue, in short, is with low ceilings, a lack of agency, and a general sense that PCs aren't allowed to do anything in the world that even barely elevates themselves without OOC rage and a constant barrage of hate ensuing.

Play in a wilderness tribe instead of the dystopian mega-caste city-states.

You have 2 games to pick from within this game.  One has what you want. The other doesn't. 

[BadSkeelz]

Or prioritize strength (surely Hal didn't nerf it that badly) and just kill anyone who crosses you. The ultimate win-state of the game.