Tavern Idlers

[Bestatte]

I do a decent amount of idling at times.  Generally it is in one of those 'away' places where I can still be found if things -do- happen.  Otherwise I may spend 20% of my time semi-afk just observing and 10%afk just waiting/eating/watching TV for a few minutes.  I'm definately not a hardcore tavern idler, but nor do I see a problem with it.  That is, unless, you login just to go afk for...an hour or two all the time.  Typically I like to keep those 'idle' periods short so that I can send little emails or whatever or just relax and still have an opportunity to jump into some RP if something happens.  I really don't see what the problem is with it.  If you find one of my characters idling talk to them and give them something to do  I find that much better than logging in, typing who, then quitting because I don't see anyone.

Read my above post Seph. I don't think ANYONE has a problem with people who sit around idle for a bit here and a bit there. If they do, then I refer you to Torax's post, who expresses his disdain for nitpicky people.

To repeat - yet again: The problem is with people who sit around idle MOST of the time and take up space and don't roleplay in any way, shape, or form for hours and hours and hours in a popular public place.

I'll try that once more..not for Seph since I'm sure he got it in the last paragraph, but for everyone else who feels some need to justify being idle for ten minutes at a time:

No one's talking about you. You're FINE. No one is taking issue with your sporadic AFK moments. The issue is with people who might as well be link dead, because they don't respond until the next crash when they have to log on and sit there until the next crash, doing absolutely nothing at all.

Try the "gone" command like suggested previously, so no one wastes their time trying to interact with a fucking statue zombie. If I wanted to deal with that I'd go back and play Gemstone.

Grrr.

[__Torax__]

You know... I was brought to this MUD by a friend... He used to tell me all the stories of all the things he did and it just amazed me.. I've been playing here for almost 7 months now and I've made some catastrophic mistakes that will most likly never land me any kharma or Immortal help when needed. But I love this game, I just cant get enough of it.. But every time I come to this GDB and read some post, I get so pissed I have to go lay down and cool off because I so badly want to say something to you all. If you all would spend half the time you spend sitting on here talking shit, you would have full kharma by now. My friend told me when I first came here and all I wanted was kharma because I want to play a magicker. He told me, "You play for yourself. You dont play for anyone else in the MUD. Not the Immortals, not the other players. You do what makes you happy and keep to the rules set forth by the ArmageddonMUD." Now, if idling makes this man happy because he doesnt have the time to activly play but wants to see what is happening, by all means do it. I've got absolutly no problem with it. But then we've got the other people that play this MUD who think they are some kind of Gods gift and believe they need to criticize everyone for something they do. I just dont understand why you people cant shut your mouths and play the game for what it is.

With that said, I know an Immortal will most likly remove my post and possibly ban me from this GDB so I'll make it just a bit more easy.. Sanvean, Nessalin.. Whoever Admins this board, please delete this account from here because I will no longer be visiting this board.

[Carnage]

Who says they're not doing things you can't see? Mindbending or contacting people or plotting their next move. You don't know. I think this entire thing is pretty goddamn nitpicky. Boo hoo, so a table is occupied. Write in and ask for more tables or move to another bar. Just because the Barrel is occupied doesn't mean the Gaj is filled up.

[Bestatte]

Who says they're not doing things you can't see? Mindbending or contacting people or plotting their next move. You don't know. I think this entire thing is pretty goddamn nitpicky. Boo hoo, so a table is occupied. Write in and ask for more tables or move to another bar. Just because the Barrel is occupied doesn't mean the Gaj is filled up.

He said so himself. Read back a few posts. He logs in just to be logged in, even though he knows he won't be paying any attention to the game. I'm sorry, but this is a roleplaying game. Being idle for 10 minutes here, 15 minutes there, ain't no thang. Being idle in the most populated tavern in the city for 10 real-life hours is not roleplaying. It's not bad roleplaying, it isn't good roleplaying. It's just not roleplaying at all.

[Carnage]

He said so himself. Read back a few posts. He logs in just to be logged in, even though he knows he won't be paying any attention to the game. I'm sorry, but this is a roleplaying game. Being idle for 10 minutes here, 15 minutes there, ain't no thang. Being idle in the most populated tavern in the city for 10 real-life hours is not roleplaying. It's not bad roleplaying, it isn't good roleplaying. It's just not roleplaying at all.

The point though? I find that a funny question coming from someone who calls himself an "Armaddict." I'm hooked, and while rl duties do not allow me to play actively, I simply like being able to pull up the window and see how things are rolling in Arm.

I don't understand what all of your problems are. Who fucking cares what he does? It's not hurting your characters. The "best" argument I've seen is "OMGWTFBBQ HE'S TAEKING UP A TAAAABLE!!!!1". Goddamn, just find another place to sit. Or let's just decree that anyone who sits by themself MUST sit at the bar or share. He's playing within the rules of the game, he's not disturbing anyone, I can't comprehend what all of your problems are with this. Grow up and play the fucking game instead of coming to the GDB and bitching about something so minute.

[spawnloser]

Now, if idling makes this man happy because he doesnt have the time to activly play but wants to see what is happening, by all means do it.

As Bestatte said, this is not roleplaying...in a roleplaying game.  If you don't have time to play, don't play.

Second, Torax, if you can't deal with people having differing opinions from yourself, seriously, don't come back.  Do you get up and walk out of work when your boss disagrees with how something should be done, telling him/her to fire you right then and there because you won't be coming back?  Calm down.  Discuss.  Don't take it so personally.

[Angela Christine]

I have to agree with Torax and Carnage, what this guy is doing just doesn't seem that heinous to me.  If Armageddon is a story, this guy is in the audience.  Obviously sitting in an isolated location wouldn't help, because you can't see anything from a private room.

On the other hand, a little courtesy never hurt anyone.  Using the gone command, sitting at a virtual table, and setting your ldesc to something like "sits at a small table here" would clear up most of the complaints without putting the idlers out.  

As for individuals taking up tablespace, I don't see the problem.  There is a PC convention that someone sitting at a table other than the bar "owns" the table, but that doesn't mean it is an IC convention.  There are plenty of historical and cultural examples where empty seats at a public table don't belong to anyone, I've been to picknics and banquets where people could sit at any available seat, regardless of who else was at the table.  Unless the person at the table is a noble, I see nothing wrong with a party sitting down at the "other end" of the table.  Why let some spice-addled drunk ruin your fun?

AC

[God]

I also find all this bitching really ridiculous. Please, stop, you're harrassing me. And I'm not kidding. I'm probably ocassionally one of those tavern idlers. Stop calling me useless.

Really, all these people are doing is hurting themselves. If they aren't doing anything, as Dirr said, they'll run out of food and water soon enough, and then they'll have to do something. Just because they don't feel the need to run around and

spam

their skills doesn't mean they're hurting the game.

Besides this, you're obviously exaggerating the "problem". In all my days here, I have never seen anyone who sits in a spot for days on end without doing -anything-. Usually they're a part of the social RP, and for that, I congratulate them. Some people are more interested in social interaction, or listening to social interaction in the meantime, then running around hunting, pickpocketing, and maxing their skillz.

[God]

*mutters* Meant to bold that spam instead of quote it.

[Armaddict]

Hey hey hey, You people are the ones blowing it out of proportion.  I said it was annoying, and that it would be a lot better if people just wouldn't log in if they were just going to idle for hours on end.

Don't bitch at me because I actually said my opinion.  Bastards.

[mansa]

I think the biggest argument was that...  someone was sitting in the only table in a tavern that seats more than five people, besides the bar.

So.  To those who idle, or even go afk, which is two different things... I say, "move to a smaller table, please, when you do what you do.  let the larger groups use that silly large table"



I'll use an in game example, that I know doesn't happen.

It's like having someone go linkdead, sitting at the broad table in the Bard's Barrel.  And you just walk in there with your clannies, wanting to stay visible to the general population, but it wouldn't be reasonable to sit at the bar.  So..what do you do?
You end up going back to your estate to do a general 'chat' and you lose the interaction with the whole world, and become isolated.

[Callisto]

Don't bitch at me because I actually said my opinion.  Bastards.

He is correct, you are all bastards.

[naatok]

I understand the idea of being idle sometimes...especially during a work day RL.  I do agree one should use the 'gone' command if not able to pay attention to the mud window though.  It's just a courtesy.

As for those voyeurs who walk into the tavern and stare at a few select PCs....well, heh...I've had this silly notion....correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't some of you folk out there who are doing this, doing so to add to your sdesc database?  I mean, c'mon.  Let's say there's six PCs in the tavern and you waltz in and look at one of them.  Isn't that usually because you've not seen that sdesc before?   :evil:

Maybe I'm just a freakin' cynic.  Maybe I'm just miffed 'cause no one stares at my twisted PC who will usually stick a hand in his pants and start fondling himself when someone just walks in and looks at one or two PCs and then turns to walk back out again.   :?

[Stroker]

Second, Torax, if you can't deal with people having differing opinions from yourself, seriously, don't come back. Do you get up and walk out of work when your boss disagrees with how something should be done, telling him/her to fire you right then and there because you won't be coming back? Calm down. Discuss. Don't take it so personally.

Oh believe me, s/he can deal with them. The problem here lies not in the difference of opinions, but in the fact that people manage to bring this up, as though it is important. Apparently, since many replied, it is. What is the importance of this thread and contents?

Some people don't like tavern idlers ... What are reasons for this? They don't contribute to the game, in other words they don't rp, and they take up necessary room.

How do npcs contribute to the game? They just sit there doing nothing. They do, however, add realism. That you are not the only coded entity. This pc adds the same realism. If nothing else, s/he is there. If he manages to squeak in an emote every once in a while, good, the better.

Onto a different part of my post:

Armaddict? Who died and made you a staff member? Why have you decided this character adds nothing to the game? Who are you tell him to leave? Show some god damn decency and respect.

Mansa? You do realize you could just as well use a virtual table with your group of clan members? Good. I thought you did.

I know it's hard to be abstract for you people (damn capitalist pigs), but come on! We're all here to have fun, so let others have fun.

[__Torax__]

Spawnloser, infact I dont ask them to fire me, I usually walk out. Because if it is something as stupid and fucking moronic as what this prick is whinning about, I believe that shows a lack of knowledge, and if its my boss, I'd consider that poor management. So yes, I do leave the place and go work for someone else. Did I take it personal? No, I am just so tired of signing into this GDB and seeing nothing but 'discussions' which is only really morons whinning or bitching about something. The only reason I look on this GDB is because it answers some questions that I have and also because some of the time it'll provide me with some new views or interprotations of certain RP. Having a run through here seeing someone crying about idle players is a little bit annoying.. No infact, its immensly annoying.

[flurry]

Edited to remove my snarky comment.   Sorry.

Seriously, the only thing worse than threads than seem trivial, are people who feel the need to post saying that the topic is unimportant.  

Different people find different issues important.   It's okay, there's lots of room at the GDB for different topics.

[__Torax__]

You do have a point, and if I'm correct in assuming your trying to make a point about one of my earlier posts...

The first one, yes it was out of newbieness because I wasnt exactly sure even though it did say 24 hours. I was trying to make sure my app. got accepted so that I could proceed in playing my next character.

The second, was out of sheer boredom and the act of being stupid. And if you read that post you would surely see it was myself playing stupid throughout the entire post while people believed I didnt know about the 24 hour waiting period, which I explicitly said I did in the very orginal post.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Ok, look. Let it go. That's enough. The idler no longer occupies any of your precious tables. He'll still be there, keeping company with the VNPCs and NPCs and all, but he'll not obstruct your sitting spaces.

Aside from that single inconvienence, there is nothing else to complain about. Let it go. Thank you.

[Carnage]

Alright. I've been seeing the same guy idling in a tavern, just about twenty-four hours a day, -constantly-. He's not linkdead, as I see him actually emote something out maybe once every three hours. My question:

What the hell is the point? What are you doing, trying to rack up hours so that you can say you lived so long? What's the deal? Cut it out.

Either log in and contribute something, or don't log in. If you've got to idle for long time, at least make it somewhere where you aren't going to have people trying to interact with you. It's annoying.

Hey hey hey, You people are the ones blowing it out of proportion. I said it was annoying, and that it would be a lot better if people just wouldn't log in if they were just going to idle for hours on end.

No. You told them to "Either log in and contribute something, or don't log in". You didn't ask, you demanded.

Armaddict? Who died and made you a staff member? Why have you decided this character adds nothing to the game? Who are you tell him to leave? Show some god damn decency and respect.

Bolded because Dirr is right fucking on.

[crymerci]

Does "gone" actually work?  I've never seen it do so.

[Bestatte]

Yeah, if you try to talk to someone who's "gone" you get a message saying they're gone. I think it also works when you try to whisper to them. Just "tell" and "whisper" though as far as I know. I don't know about the Way, but I do know you can still target them in emotes and that kind of thing.

[spawnloser]

It doesn't give a message when a 'gone' person is 'way'd to.

[Rindan]

I think you people all need to chill and stick to debate.  One of the GDBs functions is to serve as a place for debate.  The GDB is often the only way to discuss certain types of behavior because OOCing in game is inappropriate, and e-mailing the staff about things that are not technically illegal is annoying and likely to result in inaction.  That leaves the GDB as the only other medium left.  The original poster might have found a more tactful to bring the issue up, but the fact that the issue was brought up is not a bad thing, regardless if you age or not with the original posters conclusion.

The behavior of others is not a taboo subject on the GDB.  If anything, it is probably the most widely discussed subject simply because it is one of the few things anyone can change without having an imm character.  This "shut up and stop commenting on other people" attitude is ridiculous in my opinion.  It certainly can be done more tactfully in the future, but the act itself is not some how bad or wrong.  

I like comments on behavior because some times they are commenting on my behavior.  While it might offend some that people have an opinion on their behavior, I find it useful.  Many times I completely disagree with comments on my behavior and happily ignore it.  Some times the comments instantly register with me, I see something I had not seen before, and change my behavior.  Some times after long debates I slowly refine my opinion into something new or something more defined.  This is a good thing.  While there is much that can be learned through pure observation, it doesn't hurt to have the occasional peer point out something that I might not have noticed.

This thread is no different in my mind, except that people started taking it personally from the beginning.  In an ideal world no one would be emotional when writing criticism and everyone would respond to that criticism in an unemotional way.  This is not an ideal world.  One of the greatest attributes that I think it almost essential throughout all of life is the ability to take criticism without taking it personally, even in instances when it is worded in such a way to personal.  If you can't not take criticism personally, I would highly suggest avoiding the GDB like the plague.  If you can avoid getting emotional over such things, then I think you will find the GDB to be a powerful tool.

[Wintermute]

What is your problem, people?

What if I wanted to play a character that didn't want to interact with any of yours, but still liked sitting in taverns for whatever the hell reason?

Why don't you just treat the tavern idler ICly - he's simply ignoring you.  Wow, all of a sudden he's part of the game again.  If you're a noble and your character is a pretentious, pompous ass, have the guy dragged out and killed.  If you're a lowly commoner, do what you will - if you want to drag him out and kill him yourself, well hey there's code to support you doing exactly that.  Unless they've used the gone command, there really isn't much of an excuse - they're simply not responding to whatever you're doing to them, same as if they were sitting ready at their client prompt not responding to whatever you're doing to them, resulting in their character ICly not responding to you.

If someone wants to log in with their character and idle, power to them.  If someone wants to log in with their character and emote scratching at a pus-filled scab on their face every three seconds, power to them too.  I honestly don't see the difference here.  And don't give me that table crap - if you're really that desperate to not have your conversation broadcast to the tavern by talking a) standing around or b) as someone suggested sitting at a virtual table of your own, why are you in there in the first place?

[Anonymous]

I'd just ignore their PC or roleplay that they are busy in a conversation.  What's wrong with someone wanting to idle and spectate while they are doing something else?

It's a fun 5 second diversion for someone who sounds busy.

I think the suggestions about sitting at a virtual table or the bar or a small table make sense, but not this 'roleplay or get out' junk.