Tavern Idlers

[John]

My point was that a PC stuck in NPC mode for hours on end is negatively affecting the game as much as an NPC .... This is one of those times where someone else's conduct truly does not affect your play and therefore should be let be.

Well actually. Why is one type of NPC type behaviour allowed (sitting there not emoting and not interacting with anyone) whereas another type of NPC behaviour not allowed?

I can't remember WHO said it, and it's been deleted, but I remember last year I made a post in Helpful Hints that went something along the lines of "I just realised when you have to do the same repetitive task again and again and again, it's helpful to set up an alias or two for emotes to help you save time but to still add to the game" and I was jumped on quicker then anything. Several people said "if your going to use canned emotes don't bother at all."

Now I don't see how this is any different, except I was being more active (I actually had to read the screen to type out the alias's) but I saw people didn't like this sort of behaviour and I saw they had valid points so I stopped it (despite there being a few people saying "eh, let him be") and I think I've become a better player for it. Now apparently we can't do that anymore. If we think something is poor roleplay we're elitist.

Where?

I can't be bothered trying to see if a staff's opinion has been re-posted on this subject since the new board, so here is the particular post I was talking about. After re-reading it (after all, the last time I read it was well over a year ago) I see it was only Halaster's personal opinion and Zagren mildly disagreed with him

Now if I can remember so much about old posts on the GDB, why can't I remember where I put my keys an hour ago?  :roll:

[Anonymous]

Well actually. Why is one type of NPC type behaviour allowed (sitting there not emoting and not interacting with anyone) whereas another type of NPC behaviour not allowed?

I can't remember WHO said it, and it's been deleted, but I remember last year I made a post in Helpful Hints that went something along the lines of "I just realised when you have to do the same repetitive task again and again and again, it's helpful to set up an alias or two for emotes to help you save time but to still add to the game" and I was jumped on quicker then anything. Several people said "if your going to use canned emotes don't bother at all."

Who said canned emotes were not allowed?  I've never seen anything from the staff about it.

Do I like canned emotes?  No, they become so repetitive as to irritate.  Do I like it when PCs login for hours and hours without doing anything worthwhile?  No.

Will those things stop me from playing with them?  Probably.  But that's my choice.  Just like it's his or her choice to go on doing what they are doing be it canned emotes or logging in and doing nothing.

What it boils down to is I don't feel that I, you or anyone not on staff has the right to tell a player they should stop doing something that gives them enjoyment unless it is cheating or abusive.

Presumably this person logs in, works for a living and every once in a while checks in on what is going on.  I don't think their privilege to login to this game is contingent on whether or not they are entertaining you or I so let them have their fun.

Besides, just what is so damn hard about ignoring them?

[John]

Besides, just what is so damn hard about ignoring them?

Doesn't bother me none as I almost never play up north, I was just speaking of the situation in general and providing arguments on why it's not good.

[Rindan]

I don't think anyone is 'demanding' that people stop AFKing for days on end.  You can't really demand anything unless you are staff.  Pointing out that demands can't be met is pointless as I think everyone understands this.  That said, people can express their displeasure with it and say what they prefer.  I personally think that people who dislike it have a valid point.  

I find it more disruptive then an NPC because NPCs generally don't interact.  They are atmospheric and generally you can assume that it is not the same Byn dwarf in the Gaj at all times.  For the most part, nothing ever involves generic Byner #2 or generic patron #4.  PCs can be involved.  I think the example guest gave is a good example of this.  As was pointed out, unlike an NPC, a PC can't be animated.  We suspend our disbelief for a lot of things, NPCs include.  I personally prefer not to have to continue to extend it any farther then it needs to go.  If I RP with an NPC I don't RP expecting a response, so I keep all of my RP centered around having no verbal response.  When I RP with a PC, I RP expecting a response.  When I don't get when, it turns into an awkward moment where I have to decide if they are typing slowly, going to respond in a few moments, or not there.  Certainly a guy sitting in a tavern AFK can be RPed around, but it is something I would rather avoid as it almost always ends up being awkward.

I really don't think that wanting to keep an eye on the tavern is a good reason to stay AFK.  It is one thing in my mind to spend days on end there active and able to respond to the world around you, it is another to basically open up the MUD just to keep a log of a single room.  They might as well set up a ghost account so that people can just sit there and watch but not even have the potential to interact.

If you are in a role that you can't do anything in other then idle in a tavern, then you probably have found a role that is not right for you.  Plenty of people who could fall into the category of tavern idlers have managed to lead active lives despite this.  This isn't a commentary on one's RP abilities, just on how they are handling a role.  It might be best to find a role where one can be more active and let other people who can be active in the role currently being idled have that role.  I would rather see two active roles then one role that is just acting as a glorified NPC.

I don't have a problem with people being semi-AFK.  It happens.  There have been times when I have had to leave the computer and gone idle for a while to take care of pressing RL business.  It is okay to perhaps be less then attentive at times because things are simply slow.  That said, I would rather people not make it a habit of simply leaving the game on then going off to do something else for the above reasons.  There is a difference between swapping back between the MUD and a web page every few seconds and going into the other room to watch TV.  Hell, I don't even care if you go completely AFK often if you are in a private room.  The issue is when people do this in a public place.  People expect PCs to behave like PCs, and when they don't it leaves an awkward moment where you need to decide to either wait longer, or come up with an excuse for the AFK player.  This is going to happen from time to time, but it is something I would much rather see avoided.

And for clarities sake so I don't have to listen to mindless flames about my elitist RP demands, these are not demands.  This is my opinion and what I would prefer.

[Cuusardo]

If a person is just sitting there being useless, I tend to ignore them.  No skin off my back.

[Angela Christine]

So this PC and me are somewhere, and something really horrible happens. We both witness it, it's traumatic.

[snip]

After three real-life days of seeing him sitting there, there's still no response. None at all.

OMG, he's got post-traumatic stress disorder and has fallen into a catatonic state.  

Seriously, if it is a problem, and the player won't change, then deal with it IC.  In some organizations if someone goes link-dead or non-responsive on an outdoor mission a common response is to say the person is krath-struck, lead them to the safest conienient location (preferably someplace indoors and lawful like a stable, but sometimes just someplace shady if time is short) and leave them there.  We all know the person doesn't really have sun stroke and that is an OOC problem, but we deal with it IC if possible.

If a PC is causing a real IC problem (rather than just an OOC pet peeve) then you should deal with it IC.  Maybe he has narcolepsy, is being attacked by a mindbender, or has fallen into a catatonic coma.  Who knows?  Realistically, what would you do if someone was sitting at a table, apparently not moving and unable to respond for a couple days straight?  Do that.


I still prefer my auto-log out after 1 hour idle solution, because it addressess more problems than inconsiderate voluntary idling, but I can't force the staff to code that for me.  

AC

[Wintermute]

Thank you for reiterating my point, AC.

People, PC's don't leave the game world when the player logs out.  Aren't you forced to make similar excuses when someone's logged out?

Deal with it IC.

If whatever you decide to do seems harsh, well then that's just too bad for the idler.  No free lunches, remember?