What would entice you to play more in the cities?

[Kavrick]

One side thing I'd recommend after a foray into playing a criminal character is making it so the sewers count as both city and wilds for forage/stealth skills, would give city characters a place to explore.

[WarriorPoet]

A city version of wild quit for city. There are many players who play rangery types with wild quit in part because you can literally just bounce, without the 1 time in a row lock of quit ooc as it was designed iirc. I know that's a big appeal of it's own.

Good call. I have absolutely had this thought during chargen. Quit ooc is helpful but sometimes you got to go. Now.

[LidlessEye]

The ability to scavenge a far wider range of items from midden heaps and trash piles, than just rotten food and water. Example, a piece of bone here, a long bone there, an arrowshaft, a spear head, a deck of cards etc. And also addition of such midden heaps and rubbish piles to Luir's and Red Storm, with items found varying by location.

Maybe in those you can find spice tube stubs and such.

[LidlessEye]

A city version of wild quit for city. There are many players who play rangery types with wild quit in part because you can literally just bounce, without the 1 time in a row lock of quit ooc as it was designed iirc. I know that's a big appeal of it's own.

+10

[Miradus]

The ability to scavenge a far wider range of items from midden heaps and trash piles, than just rotten food and water. Example, a piece of bone here, a long bone there, an arrowshaft, a spear head, a deck of cards etc. And also addition of such midden heaps and rubbish piles to Luir's and Red Storm, with items found varying by location.

Maybe in those you can find spice tube stubs and such.

I like that idea. I like that idea a lot.

The inability to be a city survivalist WITHOUT criminal enterprise is very difficult.

[Barsook]

The ability to scavenge a far wider range of items from midden heaps and trash piles, than just rotten food and water. Example, a piece of bone here, a long bone there, an arrowshaft, a spear head, a deck of cards etc. And also addition of such midden heaps and rubbish piles to Luir's and Red Storm, with items found varying by location.

Maybe in those you can find spice tube stubs and such.

I like that idea. I like that idea a lot.

The inability to be a city survivalist WITHOUT criminal enterprise is very difficult.

[Windstorm]

Do away with pointless rules and regulations that limit or restrict clans from interacting.

Interaction and the ability to interact should be encouraged. We aren't even allowed to hate each other if we can't even interact. If interaction has to be restricted, that agency should generally fall on PCs and PC leadership.

If cities should have a strength it should be in being able to more freely and safely find PCs to interact with. When NPCs or clan rules prevent that, it's running counter to what should be a strength of city play.

The last thing that rules should be doing is limiting and restricting interaction.

[Riev]

I'll say this so the lurkers in the back can hear me:

Clan Schedules do not limit or restrict interaction. They are made to be broken, and for those who follow them, actively increase intra-clan interaction because you're all supposed to be doing <x> right now.

But if you have a meeting with your spice dealer? Skip.

[DesertT]

I'll say this so the lurkers in the back can hear me:

Clan Schedules do not limit or restrict interaction. They are made to be broken, and for those who follow them, actively increase intra-clan interaction because you're all supposed to be doing <x> right now.

But if you have a meeting with your spice dealer? Skip.

I believe the complaint is when those restrictions are enforced by animation instead via clan PC leadership, letting said leadership make the call on what the will or won't enforce.

I find it interesting what gets let go to be handled IC'ly by players and what requires an animation for corrective action applied to a player/character INSTEAD OF relying on said PC clan leadership.

[Night Queen]

The ability to scavenge a far wider range of items from midden heaps and trash piles, than just rotten food and water. Example, a piece of bone here, a long bone there, an arrowshaft, a spear head, a deck of cards etc. And also addition of such midden heaps and rubbish piles to Luir's and Red Storm, with items found varying by location.

Maybe in those you can find spice tube stubs and such.

I like that idea. I like that idea a lot.

The inability to be a city survivalist WITHOUT criminal enterprise is very difficult.

If you can forage everything with no real problems, why would there be motivation for anyone to do anything risky at all?

A "city survivalist" is not a real thing. That's called being starving and homeless. The cruel mechanism of keeping people poor is very deliberate, and is what is used to bait people into doing the risky things that the other half want done. Why is the citizen with an invincible bank account full of four thousand greb-coins going to want to risk their life for a kill contract for a thousand coins? The idea is to send other peoples' children to war. Or then the nobles start rebelling against their leader.

[Brokkr]

When there are those rules in place, PC Leadership shouldn't be giving carte blanche to ignore them to everyone under them, either.  Those rules are there for the PC Leadership to enforce and give occasional exceptions to.

[DesertT]

When there are those rules in place, PC Leadership shouldn't be giving carte blanche to ignore them to everyone under them, either.  Those rules are there for the PC Leadership to enforce and give occasional exceptions to.

That's a bit of an exaggeration considering it applies to one person and the IC leadership wasn't given the IC opportunity to correct it.

It's interesting what rules there are which get reported uo and shrugged off and which draw Staff's attention to immediately handle via animation.

[Brokkr]

When there are those rules in place, PC Leadership shouldn't be giving carte blanche to ignore them to everyone under them, either.  Those rules are there for the PC Leadership to enforce and give occasional exceptions to.

That's a bit of an exaggeration considering it applies to one person and the IC leadership wasn't given the IC opportunity to correct it.

It's interesting what rules there are which get reported uo and shrugged off and which draw Staff's attention to immediately handle via animation.

If you are talking about a specific incident, I have no idea what it is.  I assumed you were talking in general, and my comment is meant in general.

[DesertT]

When there are those rules in place, PC Leadership shouldn't be giving carte blanche to ignore them to everyone under them, either.  Those rules are there for the PC Leadership to enforce and give occasional exceptions to.

That's a bit of an exaggeration considering it applies to one person and the IC leadership wasn't given the IC opportunity to correct it.

It's interesting what rules there are which get reported uo and shrugged off and which draw Staff's attention to immediately handle via animation.

If you are talking about a specific incident, I have no idea what it is.  I assumed you were talking in general, and my comment is meant in general.

My Bad!!

It didn't help that I am right now working on the wording for a complaint listing this very thing.

It feels that all too often, animations occur for corrective or disciplinary (negative) purposes, especially within the Cities. 

To your point though, if PC Leadership isn't enforcing the rules as they should be, then that should be handled at the leadership level, should it not?

Bypassing the PC leadership to handle a disciplinary issue undermines the PC leadership and disrupts character development.

In the military, if I tell my Soldiers or Marines that they can violate a certain rule, then I am the one who takes the punishment/correction.  My leadership doesn't bypass me and punish my folks.  They punish me!!  The person who authorized them to violate the rule.

This should be the case IC'ly.  If a leader allows a rule to be broken, then that leader should be held responsible for it.  If that leader's superior is an NPC, then fair game!  Let there be an animation.  But if that leader has a PC leader, file that down to that player/character to handle.

This goes to a larger issue where rules are posted but then the person filing a report about someone breaking a rule gets told, "Meh, nobody really cares about that rule."

Another example:  a room has a searchable door that cannot be picked; I file a bug about the door and get told that it's intentionally non-pickable.  I then find a more interesting door and discover that it's lockable,, then promptly get chastised harshly for picking said door.

Anyway, my main point is to please utilize IC leadership to enforce IC rules rather than Staff Animations that bypass said leadership, undercutting them and undermining their IC authority.

[LidlessEye]

The ability to scavenge a far wider range of items from midden heaps and trash piles, than just rotten food and water. Example, a piece of bone here, a long bone there, an arrowshaft, a spear head, a deck of cards etc. And also addition of such midden heaps and rubbish piles to Luir's and Red Storm, with items found varying by location.

Maybe in those you can find spice tube stubs and such.

I like that idea. I like that idea a lot.

The inability to be a city survivalist WITHOUT criminal enterprise is very difficult.

If you can forage everything with no real problems, why would there be motivation for anyone to do anything risky at all?

A "city survivalist" is not a real thing. That's called being starving and homeless. The cruel mechanism of keeping people poor is very deliberate, and is what is used to bait people into doing the risky things that the other half want done. Why is the citizen with an invincible bank account full of four thousand greb-coins going to want to risk their life for a kill contract for a thousand coins? The idea is to send other peoples' children to war. Or then the nobles start rebelling against their leader.

Without going into detail, there are automated systems in place, in both cities where with even middling forage skill you can comfortablly make like 200-300 coins an RL day. As these already exist, PCs already have the means to live comfortably.

Furthermore, I think to entice people to play more in cities, perhaps crafts/goods can exist that can only be made by city/general classes? That might give people a reason to both live in and visit cities, for things other than just apartments and water.

The goal is not to give City PCs more coins, rather, it is to reward City play. On classes which are able to forage well and also find food in the wilderness, it is very entertaining to collect various herbs, fungi, tiny worms and making things from them. I want the same experience on a City PC, where I can get excited about what shiny new stuff I can scavenge up. A leather cord? a piece of bone? An old helmet? A moss which I found growing under the rubble of a collapsed building that is poisonous?

[LidlessEye]

In Tuluk for example, the ruins can be a good place for finding such things, being exposed to risk. Furthermore, city foraging system I am suggesting lets you find things randomly and most of the times these are parts of a recipe, like a spearhead or an arrowhead, that you can either assemble, if you have the skill, or sell off to someone else, as opposed to hunting, where you get raw goods.

What I am aiming for, is to easily have fun without needing a wilderness subclass on my city PC who is not a crafter. Granted, not all may share my view.

[creeper386]

A leather cord? a piece of bone? An old helmet?

Ooh man. If I could find old gear and repair it up some to practice armor repair, or sell it to someoen to repair. That'd be cool.

[Brokkr]

Toss me a request with your ideas.

City forage is generic.  Meaning any rsector "city" room in, you can forage from the generic table.  So if you thinks something should be able to be city foraged in any city room, please be specific.

I can also make it so that specific items might be able to be foraged in specific rooms.  Again, please be specific (this specific item in this specific room).

[LidlessEye]

Toss me a request with your ideas.

City forage is generic.  Meaning any rsector "city" room in, you can forage from the generic table.  So if you thinks something should be able to be city foraged in any city room, please be specific.

I can also make it so that specific items might be able to be foraged in specific rooms.  Again, please be specific (this specific item in this specific room).

Will do.

[roughneck]

Player collaboration often deters me away from playing in populated areas where PC's have any coded

Your PC kills a low level thug Celf in a labyrinth gang, then decides to lay low on the other side of the known world until shit cools off, and then within 24 RL hours you're being arrested and executed in a closed room by a human guard.

With a small player base I guess it's expected that PC's will communicate and cooperate with who's available, so I'm not really complaining, just recognizing the situation.

If IG organizations cooperated less, and fucked each other over more, I'd be playing in cities more regularly.

As it is, if your PC has any kind of heat on them from any organization, unless you're part of a clan, best to sit in caves or in Red Storm.

[rohenne]

One thing that really concerns me about this conversation is that Allanak is essentially the new player experience.  Years ago when I started playing Allanak was fairly bustling, so as a new player I was able to connect with others fairly easy and find the fun parts of the game, did the byn, had a really cool guild boss introduce me to the criminal underworld RP in the rinth. (thanks Butcher Brons)

But if allanak is not bustling, if there is no byn there, no cool rinth bosses having stuff going on that people can get involved in,  if everyone is hiding in clan compounds, no one there to offer work to new players,  there may well be potential new players coming in, walking around an empty allanak for a while and then just leaving never to return.


its great fun to be off in outposts and wilderness having a grand old time outside of Tek's gaze, and I'm as guilty of that as anyone,  but its not very sustainable for new players coming into the game and learning how to play they will almost never make it to where the fun is and if they can't find the fun they will leave.

[Pariah]

One thing that really concerns me about this conversation is that Allanak is essentially the new player experience.  Years ago when I started playing Allanak was fairly bustling, so as a new player I was able to connect with others fairly easy and find the fun parts of the game, did the byn, had a really cool guild boss introduce me to the criminal underworld RP in the rinth. (thanks Butcher Brons)

But if allanak is not bustling, if there is no byn there, no cool rinth bosses having stuff going on that people can get involved in,  if everyone is hiding in clan compounds, no one there to offer work to new players,  there may well be potential new players coming in, walking around an empty allanak for a while and then just leaving never to return.


its great fun to be off in outposts and wilderness having a grand old time outside of Tek's gaze, and I'm as guilty of that as anyone,  but its not very sustainable for new players coming into the game and learning how to play they will almost never make it to where the fun is and if they can't find the fun they will leave.

Agreed, Allanak is definitely the place most newbs start.  I started there forever ago and remember getting roped into some crazy shit right out the dorms, but that was back when we had 60-70 players on average.  It's a different world now.

[Hestia]

I think the point of rohenne's post (they can correct me if I'm wrong) is that - it doesn't matter how many people are playing and logged in to the game. If none of them are in Allanak, because everyone thinks no one ever plays in Allanak, then the new player who DOES show up in Allanak, will see no one is there, and have no one to RP with.

Even if there are 100 players logged in. A thousand players. Ten thousand players. If they're all playing tribals, then that means they're not playing in Allanak.

If you want to attract new players to the game, you need to be where the new players enter the game. Otherwise they'll see an empty city and not bother to log in again.

[Lutagar]

put a sparring pit in the gaj and you'd see the empty city problem go away overnight

[Pariah]

I think the point of rohenne's post (they can correct me if I'm wrong) is that - it doesn't matter how many people are playing and logged in to the game. If none of them are in Allanak, because everyone thinks no one ever plays in Allanak, then the new player who DOES show up in Allanak, will see no one is there, and have no one to RP with.

Even if there are 100 players logged in. A thousand players. Ten thousand players. If they're all playing tribals, then that means they're not playing in Allanak.

If you want to attract new players to the game, you need to be where the new players enter the game. Otherwise they'll see an empty city and not bother to log in again.

We should have a newbie alert when they join in the city you're in.

[Newbie] A new player has joined the game for the first time in Allanak!

Then everyone can run to the Gaj and go take their boots, I mean roleplay with them.