What would entice you to play more in the cities?

Started by Halaster, January 31, 2023, 09:33:39 PM

As the title suggests, I'm curious what would entice people to play more in the cities?

The normal rules about don't talk about specific IC events within the past 1 year, though if it's a major world event that's fine as long as you don't give away specific plot points, characters, etc.  The usual rules.

I'm looking more for suggestions that complaints.  If your reason is "I hate templars" then your suggestion could be "Guide templar players to be less intrusive" or "reduce it to 1 templar instead of 2".  Obviously if you dislike something about city life, speak up, but let's keep it positive.

January 31, 2023, 09:39:31 PM #1 Last Edit: January 31, 2023, 09:52:19 PM by Lutagar
a clan that

A) has no schedule
B) doesn't have a limited number of slots so i didn't oocly feel bad i was blocking other people who wanted the slot/feel like i have to play arm like a job to be deserving of it

so long as schedules/slots remain a thing for 99% of city clans i'd probably sooner stop playing arm than play in a city

Probably not geared towards me, because I often play in the cities, but there are many city roles I don't play, and there are various reasons around that, some mechanics wise, and others just an issue with culture.

Any sneaky characters, being unsure how crimcode works, and what might or might not break hide and having no clue about any of it, makes me not want to play them.

Also sneaky characters, the hate they seem to get for even existing, sucks. The fact that any hint there might be a hidden player around, has everyone standing up and scanning the room.

Also sneaky characters, the fact that the slightest mistake basically makes it so the player base knows your a sneak, is just awful.

I'd love to try playing magickers as well. Not having any idea about what the character starts with mechanics wise, makes it pretty much a waste of time in my mind, to app them. The fact that I have to just app all the characters and have an idea about their base level starting abilities the cost of rolling a magicker obscenely high. This is related to city play, because outside of Allanak I'm not sure magickers interest me.

I've been psyching myself up to play either a stealth character, or a magicker for awhile now. Orginally I was going to do both. I've just about talked myself out of playing any sort of magicker at this point, and leaning towards the stealth character only. There is always a chance by the time I end up rolling a new character I'll just choose combat or crafting like normal because of the above reasons.
21sters Unite!

I found the Garrison strictly nicer to play in than the Byn because:
1) no rule against leaving the walls and
2) very little focus on policing recruits' compliance with the schedule.

I actually like playing in the Byn but I always have to gut check whether I'm ready to stick with the restrictions (or deal with violating them).
<Maso> I thought you were like...a real sweet lady.

The 'leaving the walls' rule for the Byn is an OOC rule and is loosely enforced, let's be honest.

January 31, 2023, 10:32:50 PM #5 Last Edit: January 31, 2023, 10:50:04 PM by Barsook
A tavern closer to the Byn and Merchant Estates in Allanak rather than on the other side of the city. Or shrink Allanak like Tuluk.
i love being a nobles health points

January 31, 2023, 10:39:19 PM #6 Last Edit: January 31, 2023, 10:41:20 PM by Windstorm
Easier access for regular folks to get involved with and drive plots.

I think the higher end of city roleplay is full of life and intrigue but I feel like people on the ground have a harder time finding meaningful day to day type interaction and objectives.

Sometimes it really just takes some leaders in that vein though. If I had a new PC to make I think I could get things of that sort started, and even quickly. But it takes those sorts of driving forces and involving leaders to make that stuff happen.

Right now I think the number of factions in the broader world is maybe taking some of those sorts of players and instead of them being in cities, they're elsewhere.

I'm also not saying that's a bad thing. I'm just saying, a lot of that talent is simply distributed into other places.
Quote from: manonfire on June 30, 2007, 10:59:48 AMI'll go on record and say anything suggested by the OP has my full support.

January 31, 2023, 10:44:21 PM #7 Last Edit: January 31, 2023, 11:23:54 PM by FantasyWriter
General Suggestions:

1. Shrink Allanak like what was done with Tuluk.  If players don't have access to something and there is no intent for them to in the foreseable future, junk it. Consolidate Bazarr shops. Combine Miner and Stone Carver road or do a complete retconned overhaul of the city. The rinth is just fine :D

2.  More City vs. Wild conflict. (this is WONDERFUL right now, keep it up).

3.  More new/Returning Players
     Speaking for myself on things that drove me away for four or five years: Stop taking play options away/nerfing things/removing magick abilities/items.  It seems like every 9 out of 10 change for "balance"  results in removing/nerfing things which just makes people complain about the next thing down the hate cycle jump to prominence before it gets nerfed/removed. A lot of these things we aren't even allowed to discuss or bring up publicly because rules or are asked HOW DO YOU KNOW THIS!?!!?? if we bring it up in private.

Getting Players that Prefer Non-city RP into the City:

4.  Make the cities SLIGHTLY more hospitable to "undesirables" on an OOC level. These are the least specific examples I can offer without breaking rules:
    A. Have the crime code go away in most areas in the middle of the night.
    B. Make smuggling/sneaking people in and out easier without a wagon (also make smuggling in wagons harder: shipment inspections should be a thing without a significant bribe to a PC or NPC Templar each time you enter the gates or you are stuck inside the walls but cant enter the rest of the city without inspection).
    C. Make some undesirable things punishable only by PC Templars/Soldiers (instead of automatic death by soldier, send a report to templar/lieutenant/sergeant now or next time they log in)

5. DON'T make Redstorm/Luir's/Tribes/Solo Less attractive in an attempt to steers those of us who prefer non-city play in.

6.  Arena Events. (more interaction with city people from different clans and draws people from other places in) Find a way to automate/script arena smaller arena events with unpredictable outcomes like NPC matches.

7.  Public Sparring Areas (more interaction with the people who are there from different clans and unclanned.

8. Allow temporary alts for city events other than the arena games.

9. Allow city alts for specific plot or clan hole needs restricted to certain areas or OOC limitations on character interaction (someone needs an enemy, noble needs a  servant for a event, Salarr needs a decorator/crafter/organizer to clean up their crafting shop, The Byn needs a Drill Sergeant t to train off-peek recruits that never leaves the compound.  Same for AoD, templar wants to hire someone to embarrass a rival).

10. Relax temporary storage roles, limiting them to a certain amount of time before you have to store your temp or perma-store your previous.  Let's players take a break from their role or try something else out for a little while instead of taking a break from the game all together and (possibly) never come back.
Quote from: Twilight on January 22, 2013, 08:17:47 PM
Greb - To scavenge, forage, and if Whira is with you, loot the dead.
Grebber - One who grebs.

I don't know how to fix this, but ever since the "clanned AoD thief that can steal from you without coded repercussions" and "0-karma 2h bludgeon 0-days played dwarf assassins", people do not gather in public any more.

Everything is done behind closed doors. Usually GMH gates, or tribal camps that you have to be invited into or immediately killed.

It seems very rare that people go to bars, regardless of location, to meet new people or try and play the social game. I play arm to be social, because I am not social in real life. There seems to be more social scenes outside of bars and even outside of cities.

If I were to play more in cities, there would need to be more emphasis, somehow, on people gathering in bars without OOCing "AFKish".
Quote from: IAmJacksOpinion on May 20, 2013, 11:16:52 PM
Masks are the Armageddon equivalent of Ed Hardy shirts.

Quote from: Riev on January 31, 2023, 11:27:01 PM
If I were to play more in cities, there would need to be more emphasis, somehow, on people gathering in bars without OOCing "AFKish".

I was following you up til that line.  What do you mean?

I recently played about 20 days in the Byn, and nearly 10 days in a militia clan, back to back, and on one of those characters, there were NPCs to spar with when I was logged in by myself... and that is the clan I decidedly enjoyed playing more in.

I can only speak from my experience as a new player but I actually want to play the city game and be involved with city stuff but it usually just comes down to people not being in bars. If you're playing anything that isn't a human you're also immediately massively restricted on what clan you can join on top of the fact that GMHs all have a limit on the amount of hunters/grebbers they can have. I've actually icly never been able to join a merchant house because of this which ends up boiling down to "suck eggs, welcome to Armageddon, join the Byn". Which is doubly frustrating because I feel like characters that want to be a GMH hunter aren't the same types of characters that want to be in the Bym.

So this kinda just results in me being forced to be an Indy character that sits in empty bars all night while I play the solo wilderness game in the daytime. I don't know if it's just the way the game is intentionally but staying in the city doesn't result in me getting any more interaction than if I go fuck off and just do mechanical grinding all week.
I was told this game was full of twinks, all I found was power gamers.

I think when you ask these questions, most people commit a simple mistake. They tell you what would make them personally play more in cities. Unfortunately, what they tell you is wrong, because unless adressing their personal concerns bring a large population back to the city for them to play with, even with the proposed change they get bored because no one else comes back because you were just addressing one small group's concern.

If you want to increase the population of a city, you need to hit a broad base, and consistently the best way to do that is to dink around with the code so there are more coded things to do or play with. Take a look at how popular the game got right after you added the new classes. This is despite the fact that people complain about them semi-regularly, but they were new and interesting things to play with and they brought in enough people that even the people that didn't like the classes would play because there were just more people to interact with.

I bet the recent changes to crafting is in the process of inducing a lot more crafters too. You can check on that, but if I'm right, it makes any "how do we increase the population here" question pretty easy to answer. Give some coded crap to play around with. The more the better. Don't wait for people to ask for it either, just dink around and add stuff. Whatever you feel like. You do you. Anything codedly new to play with will draw people, and the presence of the people that want to play with the coded stuff will draw people that are just looking for folks to play with. It's this nice snowball effect that you can ride to your heart's content.

Right now wilderness play has a lot of coded mini-games to play. Hunt the thing, collect the doohickey, survive the freak monster, explore weird areas without being accused of trespassing. Not that the cities don't have a little bit of coded activity you can participate in, but it's just pretty lacking for any class that's not at least criminal adjacent.

So my advice to bringing people to the cities? Ignore everything people are saying on here, come up with some things you think would be fun to code or play around with, then do them. Some of them will flop, but that's fine. Just keep doing stuff you find fun. Even if you're not a coding member of staff, you can combine previously written coded items in fun and unique ways.

A coded festival with NPC-run activities that happens every IG month or so.
A new arm wrestling champion shows up at a local tavern.
Coded gangs that periodically push into more "civilized" areas, just kinda on the regular.
A new forgeable in a difficult to reach location.
NPC merchants hiring folks to mess with other NPC merchants.

The code will bring the players that are into that sort of thing. The players that are into coded stuff will make the city seem busier, which will bring other types of players, and because you don't need a constant high player base to keep the system working it'll be a lot more stable than most other endeavor.

February 01, 2023, 02:05:43 AM #13 Last Edit: February 01, 2023, 02:07:24 AM by LindseyBalboa
Stoked to see responses on this. I play a lot in the city when I do, and it can be long stretches of empty. I don't have any solutions: a lot of the roles that are heavy plot makers in cities seem to be bound to staying inside cities (templars, militia mostly, nobles, criminals to a large degree, byn a lot of the time, GMH depending) some of which are worldwide plot makers as well. But that binds them to playing areas that are sometimes without players.
Fallow Maks For New Elf Sorc ERP:
some of y'all have cringy as fuck signatures to your forum posts

February 01, 2023, 02:48:49 AM #14 Last Edit: February 01, 2023, 02:53:50 AM by Master Color
Just a bunch of problems with no solutions.

Most accessible skill gains are usually outside.
Most coin making is outside.
City politics is generally opaque and arbitrary with consequences that often lead to losing a character.
Many city leaders are just dangerous to play around.
City clans are often restrictive with punishingly long recruit phases.
Apartments should be a bonus to cities but they will be ransacked regularly.
Luirs is often a better place to find rare/quality GMH goods.
City exploration is often MORE dangerous than wilderness exploration with crit climb fails and opaque rinthi mugging code.
Hidden magicker roles don't really work inside cities.
Rebel/Renegade roles tend not to work inside cities (I don't consider criminal roles renegade)

I wrote in another topic, will do again. Overall system should not punish non cities but reward cities, it always works best like that.
- city room +2 to wisdom, you are enlightened by the presence of city culture. Or assume its Tek / Uteps touch
- scripted npcs that can teach you things
- more shops similar to those in tuluk but with more rewards
- combine 2 above to have something like: you remain in walls for x days and help rat hunt, gain training for slashing weapons
- citizen only shops or serious discounts to citizens
- npc script driven in city quests, special items for citizens upon completion of city tasks

February 01, 2023, 04:20:55 AM #16 Last Edit: February 01, 2023, 07:26:21 AM by Yelinak
The problem: nothing's really going on in the cities, for the most part. There's hardly anyone around, and even when there is, there's not much to do or talk about because nothing's going on. Even when people do meet up, they usually just sit there twiddling their thumbs because unless they can bring something to the table on their own, with (usually) nothing to work with beyond their own imagination and inventiveness, there's just nothing you can use to create roleplay. This means city RP is generally either absent or has this fake veneer of "this is something I came up with out of thin air because I'm super bored." It usually isn't backed up by any 'real' events or in-game realities, because there are none.


Proposed solutions:

1) Make contact/psi cost no focus inside taverns. Yeah, that's a completely OOC construct, but it'll nudge people towards taverns and serve as the first step towards generating interaction. We can handwave it and say taverns are where people to go relax and enjoy themselves, and that gives them more mental relaxation to use psionics. The rationalization isn't what matters. The more important and connected your character, the more you're encouraged to go to a tavern so you can keep up with the Way. Perfect.

2) The process of creating a trading company or minor merchant house is prohibitively arduous. It takes such an insane amount of time and effort that, evidently, almost nobody does it. I think we can easily halve the time/resource requirements for TCs and MMHs that are based inside cities. I don't even know if it's possible to make an MMH that isn't based heavily on a city, but the ones that are expressly designed to be in-city operations should have an easier time getting off the ground.

3) Nobles need to have a stronger presence in the game. For the longest time, at least in Allanak, they might as well not have existed. You hardly ever see them, and even if you do catch a rare glimpse, it feels irrelevant when you've never heard of anything they did or any reason to interact with them. At the moment, the one and only purpose that nobles seem to have is the gemmed/Oash connection. Anything else feels completely dead in the water. I think that each noble application should come with a concise idea for a city-based plot that the player intends to carry out, and nobles who are never seen in public, and who do nothing to justify never being seen in public (e.g. extensive underground plots and intrigue) should be told by staff that they need to shit or get off the pot.

4) There needs to be something for the Byn to do inside the cities besides following their schedule in the compound. I'm not hugely fond of "quest scripts" where you go and tick some box and run some automated routine, but maybe something like that is necessary. I have no idea how strong Armageddon's scripting language is, but on other RPIs, we've had things like that and it tended to work great. Example: you go to a certain place in the bazaar and guard a stall. Sometime in the next hour, an automated theft attempt happens and the script runs some checks to see if you foiled the attempt. If you do, the stall's owner pays you 50 coins.

5) Similar to #4, but for criminals. Opportunities to commit crimes that go beyond stealing random people's stable tickets or whatever you can get your hands on. Randomized scripts that offer opportunities for criminals to go and rob a bazaar stall, mug an NPC merchant scripted to walk from one end of Theyak's Walk to the other, etc. And then the Byn and/or militia can have tasks of preventing it, and while there won't always be both a criminal and a protector there to attend the "quest," sometimes there might and it'll be interesting.

I'm not 100% sold on #4 and #5 because it's definitely more videogamey than what we're used to on Armageddon, but I'm prepared to say that it's worth trying. We had something similar in the past with the raider camps that would spring up in random places, but to my knowledge, it pretty much stopped being a thing after a while. It was interesting while it lasted.

6) The ability to more readily app into city-based clans with pre-generated roles that don't start from the bottom. I'm guessing we can currently spec-app into the AoD as a private, or the Byn as a trooper, but I've never seen it happen. Spec-apps are a finite resource and it feels a bit weird to spend them on something like that. It's also unappealing to wait potentially a week for the answer. Instead, it can simply be an option in chargen. On other RPIs, role postings were popular as they allowed veteran players to bypass the drudgery of recruitment if they weren't interested in doing that for the umpteenth time. These role postings can be taken down if a clan's population rises to the point where they aren't needed anymore. On other games, these would require karma and come with skill boosts, but it's up to staff if that's wanted.

7) The recent events across the world brought a huge spike in activity and general hubbub, although it quickly waned again. Events such as theses should happen more than once in a blue moon, and they should usually be designed to revolve around the cities. I'd go so far as to say that anytime there's a full RL month where nothing has happened that gives soldiers and authorities sweaty palms, the game has failed them. Ideally, players should be able to make this happen dynamically by just choosing to do things that accomplish this goal, but that's kind of a pipe dream. It self-evidently hasn't happened with the kind of regularity required to keep militia play appealing in both cities. In my mind, that's why we have storytellers. Their job is to make sure players in game-defining roles don't die of boredom.

8) Dealing with GMHs needs to be less frustrating. When you order something from them, unless it's something that they just happen to have in the warehouse already, it takes such a ridiculously long time to get your order filled that I must believe it can be handled better. What is it that makes it take so long to have something loaded up? When I order an item that I already know exists, why does it often take upwards of a RL month before the order is filled? What is causing it to take that long? It makes me not want to interact with GMHs at all. It gives me an 'ugh' sensation on a subconscious level.

9) For the most part, playing in the city becomes a question of "do I need this character to be skilled?" If yes, it's hard to justify spending a meaningful amount of time in the cities. Sparring in clans is nowhere near as effective as roaming the world at will, and yes, that even goes for the militia with its (sparsely accessible) sparring NPCs. The 'rinth is an absolute joke in this regard, too. The NPCs there simply aren't skilled enough to get you to a satisfying level of combat prowess, and people will treat you like the biggest cheater in the world if you even try, anyway. In Tuluk, there simply is no place inside the city for anyone to even attempt to become a fearsome crook. Not every character belongs in the Byn, and not every player is interested in going through that treadmill every time they want to play a character that has some moves. There were once select NPCs in the 'rinth that you could actually skill up on to a meaningful extent, even if it was vaguely frowned upon. They were all removed from the game. The place has felt completely dead ever since, because while it might be kind of twinky to go around grinding skills there, it was simply necessary for many 'rinth-based roles.

10) > where
      There are currently 3 players in the Gladiator and Gaj, 1 player in the Red's Retreat.

11) Honestly, can we revert the code that makes it so you can't fucking see anything at night in cities? It's obnoxious.


What's important for city play is the threads that connect characters, or groups of characters. There has to be a tangible reason for interaction. The OOC desire to interact can only take you so far, and not far enough if there's no substance to it. The city-based roles feel empty, propped up by make-believe and documentation that doesn't reflect the in-game realities. Aside from very recent events, what has your typical soldier PC had to care about in the last long while? What is there to do for a criminal? What political maneuvers could one make in the cities that actually yield feedback and results? In my experience, the answer, far too often, is nothing whatsoever. That needs to change, and the first step is to bring characters together so that emergent roleplay is created through sheer proximity. This then needs to be propped up by structures within the game that facilitate and encourage it, and lend it some meaning.

Once the building blocks are in place, the gaps should fill themselves in. If there's a couple of MMHs operating in the city, suddenly there's a basis for criminal roleplay as protection rackets, robberies and other such things become viable. This, in turn, gives law enforcement something to engage with. Nobles and their aides might get involved as well if they've invested in these endeavors, and suddenly there's a whole web of interconnected conflict, interaction and communication. This is what the game lacks. Everyone's just existing on separate islands with nothing linking them together.

What's going on right now is a great example of something super good, but I fear that it'll last a couple of weeks and then it's over, and what follows is a year of total nothingness where people die of boredom IRL. I hope to be wrong about that, but for me to trust that I am, I think the aforementioned changes will prove necessary.

Playing a city-based combat class is... Extremely difficult to keep interested in, even worse if you're lacking crafting capabilities to keep yourself entertained with. I'm not sure where or how this current PC will end up, but I'm determined to never play another combat class lacking in wilderness skills and/or crafting capabilities. Being eager to get back into the game probably prompted me to create a character rather quickly instead of taking more time to consider the roleplay vs actual entertainment factor behind their skill set design.
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My own mother.

February 01, 2023, 08:54:30 AM #18 Last Edit: February 01, 2023, 08:57:27 AM by Pariah
As some others have mentioned, the rules of "Don't go outside" in any clan is a bummer.  Yes I realize why it's there, and I'm sure the day it went away if ever, you'd have five new corpses on the pile in no time, but survival of the fittest, good luck next time!

If there was some reason to goto the Gaj or whatever bar at night time, other than "The gates closed" it would draw people together probably.  I know some games have done various things with taverns like, shows, contests, competition etc etc.  Now do I know how we would do something like that in Arm?  No fuckin idea, which is probably why it's never been done.

Everyone has their goals on their dude, so if you're a crafter, you're looking for materials, if you're a hunter, you're looking to offload said materials, grebbers etc.  Maybe if the gathering spots like Gaj, Reds etc had some type of flea market (Stole this from Escape From Tarkov) where you could offer your scrab shell up for say 30 coins, and someone else could come search the flea market and buy it, then later you come back and collect what you're owed minus a fee to nenyuk of course, that would get me on the majority of my characters to have a reason that would benefit me, while allowing me to brush shoulders with folks.

My least favorite thing is selling to NPCs because I have to run around the whole big ass city to find the one or two guys who buys X.  If there was a more centralized way to sell things and buy things, I'd even pay more to do it.

The other idea would be more city based jobs, right now there is shit shovelling and that's it, people need busy work, even if they don't need the sid, I'd rather go do something than sit around alone in a bar.

The trick with bar sitting too is that most people go sit there for a few minutes and go, fuck nobody is here, and log off a split second before another dude walks in.  There is no incentive to idle in the bar waiting for interaction.  Maybe if there was a command that let you know where things were going on.  Like some games have a WHERE command, so they will type where in a city and it says, "There is quite a few people at the Gaj." "Nothing is going on right now in any established gathering spots."

The current who is not very helpful because it will tell me 20 people are playing, but then I run between Arboretum, Gaj and Reds and go, fuck they aren't here in town.

Also, I've played in some clans where the leaders would kick you out of the clanned compounds at dusk.  (I had a great Byn Sergeant who did this) because there was no reason for your to spend dawn to dusk there, and then all night.

This forced folks to go to the Gaj or someplace and that allowed interaction.  Right now I'm sure there is a ton of folks who might do whole play sessions behind their impenetrable clan compound's gates, and nobody can interact with them unless they way them.  Should be treated more like RL work.  I can't go to my job with a sleeping bag and work 8 hours then just chill out on the floor of my office.  Why do we let folks do it in the game?
"This is a game that has elves and magick, stop trying to make it realistic, you can't have them both in the same place."

Quote from: Halaster on January 31, 2023, 11:32:08 PM
Quote from: Riev on January 31, 2023, 11:27:01 PM
If I were to play more in cities, there would need to be more emphasis, somehow, on people gathering in bars without OOCing "AFKish".

I was following you up til that line.  What do you mean?

This is just a personal gripe of mine. Sometimes you walk into a bar/tavern, and there is a PC sitting at the bar. You come in, you emote a little, sit at the bar.
Then they send an OOC chat "AFKish".

Which basically means "I am here playing, but have no intention of interacting with you." or "I am waiting for someone else to log in so I am just idling here and will not be responding."

As a bar/tavern enthusiast, it is frustrating to see someone sitting at a tavern (a sure sign of wanting to interact with other players) only to be given the "You're not a person I want to play with right now".
Quote from: IAmJacksOpinion on May 20, 2013, 11:16:52 PM
Masks are the Armageddon equivalent of Ed Hardy shirts.

Right now, the only reason to be city-bound is if your clan is forcing you to, which naturally for me means I refuse to play clanned unless it's a position that specifically requires my character to be outside - maybe on paper, it's fun to emote sweeping shit with no one around, or going to sit at an empty tavern for 20 minutes before you have to head back in for some sparring before logging off to play RimWorld. You're very limited in activities in a city, and barsitting, "wine sip rp" or ERP can only get you so far.

I think the Byn is fine how it is, you just need to find a few more players to pad out numbers so Indy crews of hunters who subcontract out for the GMHs are viable and so on.

I don't think the GMHs should have military or hunter branches anymore, just make a pool of hunters / grebbers and work with them to get supply contracts done. The Luirs police force / army should be also third or fourth party but more static in Luirs itself.

The reverse to the non-interaction in bars is the person who immediately gets offended when people don't show positive reactions to their breed/dwarf/nilazi mutant gemmer. That's just as bad. It's not discrimination (it is actually), it's a responsible social reaction to a lesser creature.
"After victory, tighten the cords of your helmet."
-- Ieyasu Tokugawa

Quote from: Riev on February 01, 2023, 09:40:08 AM
Quote from: Halaster on January 31, 2023, 11:32:08 PM
Quote from: Riev on January 31, 2023, 11:27:01 PM
If I were to play more in cities, there would need to be more emphasis, somehow, on people gathering in bars without OOCing "AFKish".

I was following you up til that line.  What do you mean?

This is just a personal gripe of mine. Sometimes you walk into a bar/tavern, and there is a PC sitting at the bar. You come in, you emote a little, sit at the bar.
Then they send an OOC chat "AFKish".

Which basically means "I am here playing, but have no intention of interacting with you." or "I am waiting for someone else to log in so I am just idling here and will not be responding."

As a bar/tavern enthusiast, it is frustrating to see someone sitting at a tavern (a sure sign of wanting to interact with other players) only to be given the "You're not a person I want to play with right now".

The follow up description could be more of a problem of IC/OOC. You can totally ignore another character ICly and emote, do your own thing, talk to the bartender, and ignore the half giant.

Emote goes up to bar, not even glancing at the blood covered dwarves

As far as being logged on and afkish in a potentially safer area, would you rather they be logged off? I've been in situations where I'm working, or the house is quiet, but then someone just arrives...maybe I'm cooking dinner but keeping my eyes on the screen...maybe I just hope to listen and observe.

I like to use change long description to something like change ldesc is nodding off in the corner, barely awake.
Veteran Newbie

Quote from: Riev on February 01, 2023, 09:40:08 AM
Quote from: Halaster on January 31, 2023, 11:32:08 PM
Quote from: Riev on January 31, 2023, 11:27:01 PM
If I were to play more in cities, there would need to be more emphasis, somehow, on people gathering in bars without OOCing "AFKish".

I was following you up til that line.  What do you mean?

This is just a personal gripe of mine. Sometimes you walk into a bar/tavern, and there is a PC sitting at the bar. You come in, you emote a little, sit at the bar.
Then they send an OOC chat "AFKish".

Which basically means "I am here playing, but have no intention of interacting with you." or "I am waiting for someone else to log in so I am just idling here and will not be responding."

As a bar/tavern enthusiast, it is frustrating to see someone sitting at a tavern (a sure sign of wanting to interact with other players) only to be given the "You're not a person I want to play with right now".

OOC: afkish

I use this fairly often. To me, it means I am playing, I want to play and interact, but RL is not letting me devote 100% of my attention to a virtual world, so please forgive any delays in response.
If I only played arm when I could give 100% of my attention to the game, I would not be able to play at all. Part of many of us "aging out".
Quote from: Twilight on January 22, 2013, 08:17:47 PM
Greb - To scavenge, forage, and if Whira is with you, loot the dead.
Grebber - One who grebs.

When I returned to the game back in August of 2019, three out of my first four characters back were all assassinated within "city" walls.  Tariq was Templar'd after 77 days of play.  Gink was killed for OOC reasons but they used "law enforcement" to do it.  My third was assassinated in an apartment (Templar directed, first supposed offense).  Between them, I had nearly 120 days of play.  This isn't a staff issue.  It's a player issue.  Players who "invent" reasons or exaggerate excuses for pk are the guilty parties here.  Why would I want to continue to play in this sort of environment where my characters' lives who I heavily invest in are at the constant mercy of multiple other players?  We talk about using "other methods" instead of pk, but Tariq could've been exiled, could've been maimed or branded, could've been fined, could've been a few things but wasn't.  The go-to was pk.  Gink was pk'd for OOC reasons, a character that I heavily invested in just to have locked in the Garrison cells and killed by his own Byn Sergeant who was then stored after I filed a complaint.  The third, I at least appreciated the assassin who ended them because they gave me closure on who it was and why, still, the go-to was pk.  No attempt to collect tribute or even mention of it.  No other avenue pursued.  Just pk within 24 hours.

So again I ask, why would I want to continue to subject myself to an environment such as this?

This isn't a staff issue or a gameplay issue.  It is strictly a player issue.

I will say though, that I haven't experienced this in clans outside of the Cities.  I rolled a delf awhile back and they never had anything anywhere close to the above.  Not once.

I've also heard the comment "they've been around long enough" when referring to a character's longevity.  That's the wrong mindset.  That's an OOC mindset.

It's like people think it's some badge of merit to end a long-lived character.  Do we need this type of validation?

They also target specific role calls.  It's not enough to kill an NPC AoD Sergeant.  You have to kill THE PC AoD Sergeant.  THAT'S Meaningful!  You can't just pk an NPC Noble, you have to pk THE PC Noble.  You know, the one that someone is actively pouring themselves into and trying to enhance gameplay for a certain area of the game.  A content creator/provider.  We target leadership positions who are providing content and fun for players in a certain area, then wonder why an area is dead.

Tariq stood in the Gaj and had every single container on him opened.  We complain that we want nobles to be more visible, but then we go through every single container they have while they're sitting there trying to be social and contribute to gameplay, then we turn around and complain that they're not public and contributing.  It's a player issue.

As for what can staff do to entice my return to city play?  I imagine a few things would be neat.  Back in a day, you use to be able to over-hunt an area.  That's not an issue anymore.  In the cities though, you can over-steal/pilfer an area.  The one NPC with the nice knife on their belt, you can only steal once.  Then you wait until next reboot/reset.  It'd be neat if there were NPC nobles that walked around with guards on occasion like the randomized spider nests, jakhal dens, and raider encampments.  What if once a month, a heavily guarded Nenyuk agent made their way around to the Merchant House estates?  What if NPC nobles moved in and out of their own noble estates every so often?  What if once an IC year, there was a big spice haul or dust runner delivery to the rinth?  What if random apartments were rented by NPCs and some items of value were left within (obviously depending on the quality of the apartment complex).  What if we further had apartments patrolled by either militia or a security guard?  They don't have to be omnipresent, but if they could at least move every other IC hour, develop a pattern for thieves to observe and work around.

We only give PC thieves a miniscule amount of options as compared to what the outdoorsy types have.  Same with burglars.  The environment within a city is more PvP than PvE whereas outside the walls, there are LOADS of PvE opportunities that continue to re-populate.

Maybe if we provided more PvE opportunities in the cities, that would help.

Overall though, I still feel it's more of a player issue than a gameplay or staff issue.

I feel like I could go on, but this post is long enough.
The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.