What would entice you to play more in the cities?

[rohenne]

I think the point of rohenne's post (they can correct me if I'm wrong) is that - it doesn't matter how many people are playing and logged in to the game. If none of them are in Allanak, because everyone thinks no one ever plays in Allanak, then the new player who DOES show up in Allanak, will see no one is there, and have no one to RP with.

Even if there are 100 players logged in. A thousand players. Ten thousand players. If they're all playing tribals, then that means they're not playing in Allanak.

If you want to attract new players to the game, you need to be where the new players enter the game. Otherwise they'll see an empty city and not bother to log in again.

that is exactly my point, reading through this I realized that most of these problems would be solved with like 20 extra players and I was thinking it would be cool to have a gaming youtuber or someone do a video on the game and maybe draw in more players, but with nothing happening in Allanak there would be nothing for them to do especially if they have to get north of shield wall to find any fun.  no way a new player is going to do that without dying a few times and they wouldn't even have a way to know that's what they should do to find the fun.  If I remember correctly everything in the character creation process recommends a new player needs to start in Allanak.

I suspect Staff is already aware of this issue which is what this thread is about. 

Ive tried many muds where my entire experience was log in to empty city, walk around and find no one and nothing going on, then leave to try something else.  The reason that Arm became my favorite rp mud was because it was the first mud I ever played where I logged into the dorm for the first time and there was people in the Gaj chatting and within my first 10 mins of game time i was already being picked up by the Byn. 

with things as they are right now I suspect even a veteran player returning after a hiatas would have a hard time finding a place to plug in. 

a lot of times when I'm rolling a new character i wish there was a way to know where people were actually playing because for me i play to roleplay, like the pve mechanics are ok but If i wanted to play a game with no friends or people to talk to and just focus on mechanics i would play an mmorpg.

I realize now there are ways to app into clans and such but a new player i do not expect will have any idea about that.

on my last character i played i went from Tuluk to Luir's to Nak to STorm just searching for anyone to rp with for anything and find not a soul.  I know enough about the game to know there is fun stuff going on its just happening in more private places it just sucks because it seems like it creates a catch-22 where there is not enough players for everything to feel lively as it used to, but the player silence in the cities is going to deter potential new players in this sort of self perpetuating cycle.

[Gunnerblaster]

It would nice to flag new accounts under a certain amount of hours played is flagged, every time they're creating a new PC, or that they receive a generated e-mail stating population statistics in the game, such as "so and so amount of players logged into <region> throughout the past month!"

That way, when a new player is creating a character concept, they have a solid basis for how many players are where, etc.

I don't have any idea what kind of coded statistics the Staff have access to or how they're able to compile it, so I'm just spitballing something that could be impossible.

[Pariah]

It would nice to flag new accounts under a certain amount of hours played is flagged, every time they're creating a new PC, or that they receive a generated e-mail stating population statistics in the game, such as "so and so amount of players logged into <region> throughout the past month!"

That way, when a new player is creating a character concept, they have a solid basis for how many players are where, etc.

I don't have any idea what kind of coded statistics the Staff have access to or how they're able to compile it, so I'm just spitballing something that could be impossible.

this would be awesome, someone could know they are gonna have two dudes in all of red storm or thirty in Tuluk and make their choice.

[betweenford]

I think a more variable crimcode for actions short of treason could be healthy for city criminal play that does not involve the Rinth, especially for the early life of criminal pcs and soldier-murderers.

Getting crimflagged for engaging in actions that do not involve the nobility or templarate could honestly be half or a quarter of the current duration, and the current duration reserved for criminal actions against the upper crust of the cities. It's just too damn long of a time spent not being involved with a decent portion of the city as a criminal, what is it like two hours of being crimcoded?

[Hestia]

Admin, in THIS topic, is looking to improve city play. That is all. If you have ideas about a different topic you're welcome to open a different topic, or participate in other existing topics.

If you all keep derailing and sniping at each other it's just going to result in another locked topic, and more disappointed players who are sincerely trying to enjoy the game, and see improvements made.

[Suhuy]

If you all keep derailing and sniping at each other it's just going to result in another locked topic, and more disappointed players who are sincerely trying to enjoy the game, and see improvements made.

If locking a thread disappoints everyone and prevents improvements from being made, why are you guys always threatening to lock threads (when not actually locking them outright?) I don't even see any real sniping going on here anyway.

[Greve]

None of this will matter until there are city-based stories that feel relevant. You can't sustain it with automated quests and progs and a reduction in the focus cost of psionics inside taverns. There have to actually be things going on in cities that make it appealing to play there.

That has been missing for like seven years.

[Tuannon]

To get city based macroplots to work, people need to be conditioned to round table plot points with antagonists and staff in a semi OOC manner. But from what I have seen a good portion of people refuse to take the L because they have a protagonist mindset.

I do not know how to get this to change in a satisfactory and fair fashion, but the sooner people start to do it the sooner the more satisfying city storylines will be.

YES, sometimes you have to make a game vs play decision to make gameplay more engaging for people. Lose that evidence, drop that rumour, release that criminal.. Whatever.

[Hestia]

If you all keep derailing and sniping at each other it's just going to result in another locked topic, and more disappointed players who are sincerely trying to enjoy the game, and see improvements made.

If locking a thread disappoints everyone and prevents improvements from being made, why are you guys always threatening to lock threads (when not actually locking them outright?) I don't even see any real sniping going on here anyway.

I deleted 8 posts after having received several complaints from players. That's why you don't see them. Stay on topic. If you have a problem with moderation, submit a request.

[Pariah]

One thing I've noticed as a follower of this thread is that people seem to be trying to make it a one size fits all type solution.

One will recommend questing and others love it, then someone else will say it will be the end of the world as we know it.

One will recommend city forage spots, and more diverse reasons to be in a city then just "It's night time." and someone else will poo poo that.

I don't think it's going to be a singular change or action that's going to help bring folks back to the city.

I think it's going to take having a lot of options of stuff, some you might hate and never use, some you might.  It's not a competition to see who wins and gets their thing they want added to the game, it needs to be a culmination of various things that get added and give choice to folks.

To me the reason I enjoy the outdoors is because one day I can go hunt, one day I can forage, one day I can explore, one day I can go find herbs, one day I can go do X Y and Z, there are tons of options with outdoors play.

Indoors is sorta lame now and I get it, we gotta make the in city play less...lame.

[Synthesis]

Getting back on topic, I'll add my two cents and echo the sentiment that, as an older person with a real-life schedule and responsibilities, this game takes up way too much time, and the solution is to play roles where I can do what I want, when I want, without having to coordinate with other players.

The way the game is set up, this usually means indie ranger-ish/crafter. Why?

1. The combat skill code has always more-or-less required that you grind on critters to advance beyond middling. (Maybe this has changed recently, since I haven't been playing.)

2. I don't have to rely on coordinating with other players to make money...I can just go get the raw materials myself.

3. No schedule means the only thing putting a limit on what I do is the day/night cycle and storm code, both of which are manageable nuisances.

For example, if I have 1 hour to play, and I log in at high sun in the Byn, I'm fucked. I can't advance a skill. I can't make money. Everyone else logs out or goes semi-afk until the next dawn. I spend an hour emoting the same b.s. I've emoted a million times over 25 years. I go to the Gaj and nobody is interested in me.

If I'm playing a pure crafter with zero combat skill, I can still make money staying in the city, but chances are I need some sort of inaccessible raw material. So I sit around waiting an hour for my 1 or 2 grebber contacts to log in...they never do, and there goes an hour because our playtimes didn't sync up.

If I have 1 hour to play as an indie ranger-ish crafter and I log in at high sun, I can still go out and pursue some goals. If I want to train, I can--and I know that the time will be well-spent, because I essentially can select the difficulty. If I need something, I can just go get it. I don't have to wait on a schedule or for a particular person to log in.

In a nutshell, if you aren't into mudsex, directly involved in politics, or spamcasting, being stuck in the city is a boring waste of time.

(I exclude playing miscreants from this, because while other folks seem to have trouble with them, I usually can find something amusing to do.)

The solutions (for players like me, anyway) are a) to make skillgain reasonable within the context of being city-clanned, b) remove clan schedules that dictate what you must be doing at a particular time, c) facilitate char-to-char goods transactions in some manner that doesn't require face-to-face interaction.

[Krath]

Getting back on topic, I'll add my two cents and echo the sentiment that, as an older person with a real-life schedule and responsibilities, this game takes up way too much time, and the solution is to play roles where I can do what I want, when I want, without having to coordinate with other players.

The way the game is set up, this usually means indie ranger-ish/crafter. Why?

1. The combat skill code has always more-or-less required that you grind on critters to advance beyond middling. (Maybe this has changed recently, since I haven't been playing.)

2. I don't have to rely on coordinating with other players to make money...I can just go get the raw materials myself.

3. No schedule means the only thing putting a limit on what I do is the day/night cycle and storm code, both of which are manageable nuisances.

For example, if I have 1 hour to play, and I log in at high sun in the Byn, I'm fucked. I can't advance a skill. I can't make money. Everyone else logs out or goes semi-afk until the next dawn. I spend an hour emoting the same b.s. I've emoted a million times over 25 years. I go to the Gaj and nobody is interested in me.

If I'm playing a pure crafter with zero combat skill, I can still make money staying in the city, but chances are I need some sort of inaccessible raw material. So I sit around waiting an hour for my 1 or 2 grebber contacts to log in...they never do, and there goes an hour because our playtimes didn't sync up.

If I have 1 hour to play as an indie ranger-ish crafter and I log in at high sun, I can still go out and pursue some goals. If I want to train, I can--and I know that the time will be well-spent, because I essentially can select the difficulty. If I need something, I can just go get it. I don't have to wait on a schedule or for a particular person to log in.

In a nutshell, if you aren't into mudsex, directly involved in politics, or spamcasting, being stuck in the city is a boring waste of time.

(I exclude playing miscreants from this, because while other folks seem to have trouble with them, I usually can find something amusing to do.)

The solutions (for players like me, anyway) are a) to make skillgain reasonable within the context of being city-clanned, b) remove clan schedules that dictate what you must be doing at a particular time, c) facilitate char-to-char goods transactions in some manner that doesn't require face-to-face interaction.

+1

[dumbstruck]

In the context of the above two posts, would it be fair to say that attempts to make people more reliant on one another to do things are instead just making sure things aren't happening because no one wants to deal with the hassle of aligning the pieces and the times most days? I cannot speak for other people in such cases but that does echo a tendency to play certain types of roles over other types of roles for me, to some degree at least, and some of the reasoning at least.

[Spiceoflife]

I think city clan sponsored roles should be required to show up in public.. Not hide in compound and way people all day.. Nobles should be in the bars, they should be available.. Sure they run a chance of eating an assassination, but also new players.. militia players and everyone else actually sees someone to interact with.

[rohenne]

i have an idea. something like  'den of wonders' but make it more like a npc automated place  instead of a place pc's have to keep up. could have the npc games that already exist outside of nak like betting or spicerun tables, sparring pit, dart board food and drinks and relatively safe for allanak denizens of all walks of life. like a neutral place almost.  I thought an area like that was really cool and facilitated a lot of players interacting and plots spreading around.

[Supified]

I think any permeant altering action should have rules similar to pking, because losing a char vs losing an aspect of a character can be very much the same thing.

So, you said you weren't reading the replies, but to clarify for anyone else... it does? Like, you need consent to disfigure or dismember. OOC consent. Like, not only do you need to request OOC consent to do a torture scene, you also need to request separate OOC consent if you want to disfigure or dismember someone in any permanent fashion, and if they say no, there's absolutely nothing you can do about it, you just have to not disfigure them. This applies for everyone, including templars.

Maybe you stopped playing before this was implemented? I'm not even sure if there was ever a time that wasn't in place. The rules are definitely not grey on that matter, they're very black and white. If you violate this somehow (which is essentially impossible to do under any circumstance but essentially one, since staff or the player in question need to directly implement the disfigurement themselves) the punishment is very harsh, up to forced storage and beyond if I'm not mistaken.

Then the rule is just fing ignored because I stopped playing only a handful of months ago and no longer staff had no problem doing this without any ask of my consent.

[Brytta Léofa]

I think any permeant altering action should have rules similar to pking, because losing a char vs losing an aspect of a character can be very much the same thing.

So, you said you weren't reading the replies, but to clarify for anyone else... it does? Like, you need consent to disfigure or dismember. OOC consent. Like, not only do you need to request OOC consent to do a torture scene, you also need to request separate OOC consent if you want to disfigure or dismember someone in any permanent fashion, and if they say no, there's absolutely nothing you can do about it, you just have to not disfigure them. This applies for everyone, including templars.

Maybe you stopped playing before this was implemented? I'm not even sure if there was ever a time that wasn't in place. The rules are definitely not grey on that matter, they're very black and white. If you violate this somehow (which is essentially impossible to do under any circumstance but essentially one, since staff or the player in question need to directly implement the disfigurement themselves) the punishment is very harsh, up to forced storage and beyond if I'm not mistaken.

Then the rule is just fing ignored because I stopped playing only a handful of months ago and no longer staff had no problem doing this without any ask of my consent.

By my reading of help consent, dismembering requires consent but disfiguring does not.

- Forcible tattooing is specifically called out as something not requiring consent.
- "In the case of mutilation, an action that would cause a character to lose their ability to function in some way, the victim may request that they be killed by the procedure."

I'm unsure whether things like cutting off fingers/toes or docking ears would require consent: although they are "mutilations" I would think that they are allowed without consent because, unlike e.g. hand/foot amputation, they don't impose a hard loss of function on the level of "now you can't run" or "now you can't etwo." Obviously all of these things require staff involvement since there's no command to do it.

I would hope that everyone here would honor a request for PK instead of disfigurement even if the rules don't require it.

(That's just to say what I think the consent rules currently are, not what they should be. I do think the current rules are about right; if I could change one thing I would take a slightly harder line against sexually-tinged torture/mutilation. I do understand that people enjoy the game in different ways and that being disfigured is worse than PK for some of us.)

[Supified]

I personally disagree.  Lets look at some of the rules.  I am pretty sure staff for example, arn't supposed to go around killing characters.  But are they allowed to remove limbs? 
So you're allowed to request a PK instead of losing limbs. Seems like an awfully huge loophole which is kind of my point.  I suspect a lot of the abuse was handled via using these sorts of loopholes and what was the results?  No one wants to play in cities where this sort of thing happens.

Hey templars need to be scary, but you can't go pking all the time.  How about we just pmaim that will be okay right?  Then players voted with their wallets (ie by not playing there) and now there is a thread wondering why.

Anyway, whatever,  we can just bury our heads in the sand about how players feel about character with ultimate power over them acting in this manner, I'm sure it won't have any consequences to the game.

Sorry, I'm still bitter.

[LindseyBalboa]

i have an idea. something like  'den of wonders' but make it more like a npc automated place  instead of a place pc's have to keep up. could have the npc games that already exist outside of nak like betting or spicerun tables, sparring pit, dart board food and drinks and relatively safe for allanak denizens of all walks of life. like a neutral place almost.  I thought an area like that was really cool and facilitated a lot of players interacting and plots spreading around.

I requested this and it was denied but I am going to +1 this forever. It is such a needed part of the city experience that it shouldn't be left to PC hands. There is a huge problem with people inside cities not finding RP - this idea allows rinth and southern PCs to interact in a 'safe' ish environment. Especially if it's not in a lawful area as there's no reason for templars not to arrest criminals, but criminals very much can self-police through violence if there is an area where plying trades is 'off-limits' - the one caveat being it should definitely be lawful-adjacent to make the trip there 'safe.'

[SpyGuy]

The Den was such a fabulous place for Allanak.  It's sorely missed.  I wouldn't mind seeing it be rebuilt in some capacity.  For most players in clans and out of them that is the useful side of the city.

Some form of a where command would be nice.  Allanak and Tuluk both have too many taverns and gathering places that it can make bumping into someone hard.  It's a good thing for navigating IC social barriers but hurts finding interaction

[whengravityfails]

The Den was such a fabulous place for Allanak.  It's sorely missed.  I wouldn't mind seeing it be rebuilt in some capacity.  For most players in clans and out of them that is the useful side of the city.

Some form of a where command would be nice.  Allanak and Tuluk both have too many taverns and gathering places that it can make bumping into someone hard.  It's a good thing for navigating IC social barriers but hurts finding interaction

Both of these things. The Den was special because it was far more than just a bar - it was an actual hub of activity that generated a lot of RP on its own which meshed well with many different plots. Losing it was a serious blow that still hurts, I truly wish it would return in some way. A lot of my enjoyment playing in Nak died with it.

A where command - opt-in or not - could only help matters.

[Supified]

The loss of the Den is a prime example of the sort of things that makes people not want to play in cities, and the fact that the things that caused that to occur ( of which I blame primarily staff and policies both unfollowed and not in existence) is also root cause.

I still say this thread is proof of changes needed and a refusal to make those changes.  People voted with their time, they said they don't want to play here and the things since this started happening is so far no change.  No attempt to reign in powerful enforcer pcs, create new rules, or enforce existing which have loopholes big enough to drive a truck through, add more also policies that mean damage done stays done, no matter how it is done and why it was done. 

Why would anyone want to build something special in a place it will be destroyed on a whim and for the love of torture porn.  Nothing I've seen even remotely addresses this and if you think people didn't leave because they were sick of playing out one sided abuse over and over again than I suspect the people who left arn't even being asked.

[Tuannon]

If the player numbers in Allanak get above 5 again during prime time, a neutral speak easy may be a worthy investment. But until that happens it isn't.

This is essentially what the Atrium should be.

[Wday]

1. More open to play other then being stone wall harsh. ( yes it's a harsh world but almost to point very little Rp with anyone City Noble or highborn.)
2. Open up cities! So a player can roam around find plots and not just limited to a few rooms. (meaning live there, rent a place make a life)
3. Game itself needs a welcome come play and flesh out more.  To me.. It seems more like a log on kill someone or be a asshole to them right off.  Run off any rp because you know it's a mean game world and who wants to play with others here right?  But that just how I am feeling with it.  MDC is fine when a reason is born and fleshed out.  Otherwise it's hacking and slashing with a emote here and there.

Game itself has become the too harsh to talk to others (icly) or reason to rp with the characters.  Yes we can be hard and desert rough.  But like Tuluk there is little to no reason to go there if you are not from there to find fun length rp.  Allanak same routine, start get mauled by highborn then thrown in the arena.  Cities for last some years has become a hide and play in area other then a play and city growth. By the players I mean!  From watching the game last few years no merchant or highborns are out much.  Its a log on post a rumor in the tavern and wait in the wagon or compound to someone ways you type rp or play..however you want to call it.

[Armaddict]

If the player numbers in Allanak get above 5 again during prime time, a neutral speak easy may be a worthy investment. But until that happens it isn't.

This is essentially what the Atrium should be.

I don't see either how this new thing behaves differently than any other meeting place or how this remotely fits Atrium's description/purpose.