Coded way to discover crafting recipes.

[Pariah]

So crafting here is weird, and I mean that in the most loving sense of the word, but it's fucking weird right?

Anyways, why it's weird, So you can pick up a widget and go craft widget and if you have the proper skill and skill level in that skill the game will show you a list of things you can make from this widget.  That part is extremely simple.

So skins, bones stuff like that, easy level crafting as it's one item and one command.

Now it gets complicated after that, because you start going up in, I believe the word is factorums? (Some math dork can correct me) Anyways, it's multiples of 2, 3, 4 and 5 as the crafting system is only able to do five items.

So when you get up into the higher tier there, the amount of combinations of things if you take the same objects is 125, now multiply that by whatever number of possible items there are that make up craftable goods and it's a monstrous number.

So what does Amos the crafter homie do?  Well of course he can ask his friends, hey you know what I can do with this widget, but chances are they aren't going to have any idea.

So he throws away said widget or just stacks it in a box "just in case".

Now is that a major issue, nah, but without having an item to analyze, and when we do the math of that it's crazy high too, you can't figure out what this one widget is for.

It would be nice if you could do Craft widget and it would output something like:

>craft widget
You can make:
1. A studded groin piercing from that widget.
If you had a piece of bone and toenail of a witch you could make:
A fancy talking robot.

I know the above example is silly, but I hope you get the idea.

What spawned this?  Someone randomly telling me about a few items that created a thing.  Who's ingredients I'd been throwing away for YEARS because I thought they were just useless byproducts and had tried craft thing with every craft ability in the game, only to find out you had to combine the three things together.

In a game where we are encouraged if not outwardly pushed to discover things on our own, why is it so hard to do so?

I think we need a coded way to figure out crafts better.

[mansa]

I agree and posted some suggestions here:
https://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,57472.0.html

[Pariah]

I agree and posted some suggestions here:
https://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,57472.0.html

Damn my GDB search kungfu is bad.

[creeper386]

The crafting system is one of my major complaints of our current code base, and something similar is roughly how I'd go about it, although even then I'm not sure how it'll work when you could make 1000 things with a piece of bone.


Love to see some improvements of this regard. I end up storing every crafter I try due to similar issues. The mechanic pain of the system just becomes too much.

[Miradus]

I do like the Harshlands code base which, if you have the crafting skill, will let you assess an item and tell you what crafts it could be used in.

As opposed to ours where you analyze the finished craft and it tells you what items you need.

Two wildly divergent codebases and we'd never be able to combine best features of both.

[Pariah]

I think I mentioned this somewhere else in the past, or it could have been just a passing thought that I never actually typed into the GDB.

But one way to make the currently analyze to get the recipe more viable.  Allow Analyze to work on shops.

List
1. doohicky
2. another doohicky

Analyze #2
Another doohicky is made with a piece of bone and your mom's toenail.

Cause then you can scour shops of the known to see what is made with what.

[Filthy_Grey_Rat]

When I play 'crafting heavy' chars, whose main focus is selling, trading, and making things, I have a way I go about more 'item discovery'.

First, you'll want to have a decent haggle skill, and some pocket change. When you come across something new in shops, view the item, and try to gather the various versions of ingredients you see included in the item. Sometimes it's too vague, and or you didn't gather the exact right type, but trying all the stuff you gathered usually nets some new recipes. Second, you'll go back with your pocket change, and buy the thing for as cheap as you can get. Once you've analyzed it, you've got the recipe, give yourself two or three days (two - three weeks IC) to try and upsell it to a PC, but if you can't, you can always sell it to the same shop, or another one in a different city, using your haggle to mitigate some of the loss.

I specifically devout some of my coin just to discovering recipes, and this has netted me a lot of mental combos stored in my memory palace. I should probably use a text file to paste them all into, but nearly 19 years ago I looked down on someone for doing that for some reason, I can't recall, and if I go back on that now, I'll be a hypocrite.


Another thing I want to mention: Recipe Discovery is the very bread and butter of Merchant Houses. Not only do they get an expanded list of craftable items, they typically have stores of random items to try combos AND, most importantly, a leader PC who very often has the knowledge you're seeking.

And lastly, recipes are a little like that guarded, occult information that stonemasons and the optometrists guild hold onto and hoarde. We do it ICly, not revealing knowledge because that leads to others' profit and lessens ours, so in the game world, this is kind of the same thing. You want to know the secrets? Join the 'guild' that is hoarding them, or, alternatively, use this as an opportunity to get into the corruption, betrayal, murder aspect of the game. Bribe, steal, or con your way into that knowledge if you don't want to join up. Pay another to break that basket-weaver's legs for his hexagonal basket recipe, because f* that basketweaver. We'll all have a good time, mostly.

[Dar]

I still remember I accidentally stumbled onto clearly someone else's hidden mastercraft as my own merchant.


I literally had a room with 5 pcs of ... EVERYTHING.

I didn't write a script, I just went idiot Savant keyboard jockey craziness typing out a methodical item per item combo search and struck gold!!!

[Inks]

When I play a MCer and make a cool item the last thing I want is someone easily copiable by other crafters.

I still put all the materials in the item desc though. I wouldn't want a coded command to just insta copy-paste the materials needed by looking at it though. It rewards merchants putting in that extra work under current system.

[Pariah]

There is still a need to source the materials.  While I understand your mastercrafted steel longsword that glows might be a sekret recipe.

The shiny knobby staff that requires two branches and some esoteric ingredient are not.

I think for fear of extremes like the MC argument, we are gatekeeping so many things behind OOC knowledge and not IC knowledge.

Because who is gonna wanna sit there and play the craft item1 item2 item3 item4 item5 125 times?

So what happens is that the player who got lucky enough to have a more experienced player once in their life who knows this crazy combination of things make a warsword or whatever is at a higher advantage than the newbie who's playing the game as intended which is with no ooc knowledge.

I used to write down every recipe of poisons and brews, I recently trashed that myself because it was essentially me making up knowledge that spicy and tangy makes weed or whatever and I shouldn't have known that on every character.  Crafting in the same way, every character shouldn't know everything they learned on previous characters and should have an ic way to find the answer to what makes what.  Currently we don't.

[LindseyBalboa]

I hate the crafting system and think it should have crafting recipes available at every skill level upon reaching a higher skill level.

I don't have to guess how to use combat skills or any other skill. My character achieved a level of skill and should have the accompanying knowledge of how to use that skill; and in addition there is no way my crafter should be less able than a less experienced crafter character whose only advantage is OOC knowledge.

[Pariah]

I hate the crafting system and think it should have crafting recipes available at every skill level upon reaching a higher skill level.

I don't have to guess how to use combat skills or any other skill. My character achieved a level of skill and should have the accompanying knowledge of how to use that skill; and in addition there is no way my crafter should be less able than a less experienced crafter character whose only advantage is OOC knowledge.

[Brytta Léofa]

When I play a MCer and make a cool item the last thing I want is someone easily copiable by other crafters.

straightforward from here
- when you submit a mastercraft you can request the recipe be made "secret"
- if it's "secret", the recipe has two extra fields set: created-by and date-created
- the recipe is invisible/unusable by anyone except the character who submitted it until 9 RL months after date-created
- after 9 RL months anybody can discover and use the recipe. it's long enough to make a baby, you should have made your fortune by now.
- also lol if you died and made another MCer; secret recipe is still secret.

[Halaster]

I do like the Harshlands code base which, if you have the crafting skill, will let you assess an item and tell you what crafts it could be used in.

As opposed to ours where you analyze the finished craft and it tells you what items you need.

Two wildly divergent codebases and we'd never be able to combine best features of both.

Oh yeah?

EDIT:  This post by Miradus is what got me to push for this change

[Pariah]

I wanna thank everyone who participated in this thread.  Look at the great thing you've done in a few weeks.

[dumbstruck]

I do like the Harshlands code base which, if you have the crafting skill, will let you assess an item and tell you what crafts it could be used in.

As opposed to ours where you analyze the finished craft and it tells you what items you need.

Two wildly divergent codebases and we'd never be able to combine best features of both.

Oh yeah?

EDIT:  This post by Miradus is what got me to push for this change

Thank you for putting in the change. Kudos sent.

[Agent_137]

awesome!!!

So the take away is  if you want a cool feature, just challenge Halaster's coding ability.

[Dracul]

Yaay!

claps