Recent Poison Updates Questions

[mansa]

The first set of changes for Poison went live today as per: https://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,58086.msg1078862.html#msg1078862

I have a couple questions:

Can I now "brew" a poison mash for Grishen, and then apply that mash to weapons?
Can I now "brew" a poison vial for Grishen, and then apply that vial to weapons?

[Halaster]

Can I now "brew" a poison mash for Grishen, and then apply that mash to weapons?

You have always been able to brew a mash for grishen.  But no, mashes cannot be applied directly, they must be crafted into a paste form.

Can I now "brew" a poison vial for Grishen, and then apply that vial to weapons?

The 'vial' form of poison works on poisoning food/water.  To poison a weapon you must get it in a paste form.

[Halaster]

Question:  I first get some grishen, and make a mash. Then i get more grishen and make paste?

You get the herbs to make the mash.
You then get the wild grishen poison item (say a animal gland) plus the mash to make the advanced stuff

Question:  What about items we had poisoned with grishen before the update?

They're going to default to the lowest potency level

[Halaster]

Question:  For the mash for pastes, is it a specific old mash for the poison, a new mash; or any mash but certain ones REALLY help potency

The existing, old mash

[Halaster]

Question:  How do the existing poison affects stack up against the new advanced poisons?

It's a case-by-case basis.  The old existing effect of grishen is a mid-range potency, so you can craft grishen poisons that are more dangerous than before, and less so.

With some of the others, such as peraine, the existing affect will be the absolute top-tier pinnacle of advanced poison crafting.

[Fredd]

Will my level in Poisoning matter, or is it just a flat bonus for having the skill?

Ie: If I have Master poisoning, will it help more then if I had Novice?

[Halaster]

Will my level in Poisoning matter, or is it just a flat bonus for having the skill?
Ie: If I have Master poisoning, will it help more then if I had Novice?

Your level will matter.

[mansa]

Do applied poisons degrade on weapons?

[Dresan]

There will be no such thing as a total saving throw to completely resist a poison, but successfully saving against one will dramatically reduce its effects.

I just have a question about this part. I know this is still in the works but does this mean the failure we currently see when trying to apply poison to someone is going away? For example, you shoot your blowgun at a dwarf, it success hits, but currently there is a good chance this will have no effect at all, wasting your poison attempt. I hope it is going away, given how many more steps are now involved in aquiring and successfully crafting poison.

I also just have a comment about ingredients. My impression has always been unless you have max master skin, your chances of getting peraine glands are almost none, and even with this level of skill I remember it would still regularly fail. This was kinda needed before to combat successful farming parties being formed and flooding the market with peraine poison that would never decay on weapons or blowdarts. Much of that will now change and while I don't mind acquiring some ingredients having a high level of difficulty but its another story if they are locked behind what seems to be multiple maxed out skill caps.

Finally a small comment on recipes, I was somewhat disappointed with miscreant level brew because it would not allow me to figure out the recipes of a few cures i had acquired. As for poison recipes at the time i didn't even bother. I really hope poison recipes can be learned from having enough level of skill and perhaps some testing rather than OOCly through friends or needing to join a clan and hoping the staff member running likes you enough to tell you some recipes. 

[Halaster]

Do applied poisons degrade on weapons?

Yes.

[Halaster]

I just have a question about this part. I know this is still in the works but does this mean the failure we currently see when trying to apply poison to someone is going away?

Not entirely, as there's different mechanics at play here than just a saving throw vs poison, but the total failure will be less frequent.

[Brokkr]

Finally a small comment on recipes, I was somewhat disappointed with miscreant level brew because it would not allow me to figure out the recipes of a few cures i had acquired. As for poison recipes at the time i didn't even bother. I really hope poison recipes can be learned from having enough level of skill and perhaps some testing rather than OOCly through friends or needing to join a clan and hoping the staff member running likes you enough to tell you some recipes.

Which cures and poisons you can brew is dependent on brew skill level, just like being able to even try a badass chest plate is dependent on armor making level.  Miscreant has access to nearly all the recipes though.

As for figuring it out, just like the introduction of this brew system catered to people who like to figure it out rather than be told stuff by the system, this will too.  But given my brief playing with Grishen, it will be much safer to do so than cures were.

[Dresan]

Not entirely, as there's different mechanics at play here than just a saving throw vs poison, but the total failure will be less frequent.

Let me just say I am glad you are making these changes. It really adds another fun dimension into the game which felt fairly binary before. Thank you. While you have a lot on your plate, at some point maybe that mechanic can be looked at to have skills like poisoning (and stats? on the other end) influence success/failure rate.

Which cures and poisons you can brew is dependent on brew skill level, just like being able to even try a badass chest plate is dependent on armor making level.  Miscreant has access to nearly all the recipes though.

Hmm. Interesting. When I last played my miscreant I was in talks with another group to try to learn some recipes of the stuff i couldn't figure out due to low brew skill but the talks never completed. I didn't realize that it wasn't just that I couldn't just figure the recipe out but that skill level would prevent me from even trying to make them outright.

Its not a bad thing but it changes perspective viability of certain classes going forward.

[mansa]

The updated helpfile for Grishen states:

...It works best on arrows and bolts, though it is still rather potent on any type of slashing, piercing, or stabbing weapon...

https://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Grishen


As far as I recall, the poison command only works with 'stabbing' weapons, and cannot be applied to slashing and piercing weapons.  Is this a change to the code and they can now be applied to those weapons?

[Armaddict]

The updated helpfile for Grishen states:

...It works best on arrows and bolts, though it is still rather potent on any type of slashing, piercing, or stabbing weapon...

https://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Grishen


As far as I recall, the poison command only works with 'stabbing' weapons, and cannot be applied to slashing and piercing weapons.  Is this a change to the code and they can now be applied to those weapons?

There are select slashing/chopping weapons that can be poisoned, usually smaller, more compact versions rather than full-size weapons.

[Brisket]

Will there be materials or additional components (like a primer) that can positively or negatively affect poison degradation?  Like a spearhead made of a porous material like bone might hold poisons better than one made of stone, and one made of obsidian would cause poisons to degrade even faster?

Or some sort of primer a master brew/poisoner could make that would double the expiration of the poison's degradation?  (random example, not that exact formula)

[X-D]

Mansa, It must have been a good long while since you tried I guess.

Most piercing weapons can be poisoned AFAIK, And over the years, more and more of other styles, Though as another has said, size is normally a factor.

[Dresan]

I've never found axes that could be poisoned, but definately seen a couple swords that could.

That said, even if you poison the swords, only piercing and stabbing attacks can apply the poison on the weapon as far as I am aware.

It would be nice for that to change.

[Halaster]

Will there be materials or additional components (like a primer) that can positively or negatively affect poison degradation?  Like a spearhead made of a porous material like bone might hold poisons better than one made of stone, and one made of obsidian would cause poisons to degrade even faster?

Or some sort of primer a master brew/poisoner could make that would double the expiration of the poison's degradation?  (random example, not that exact formula)

Perhaps eventually, but not for now.

[Inks]

I've never found axes that could be poisoned, but definately seen a couple swords that could.

That said, even if you poison the swords, only piercing and stabbing attacks can apply the poison on the weapon as far as I am aware.

It would be nice for that to change.

That is untrue and always has been. Slashing attacks on poisonable weapons transfer poison just fine.

Source: Murders.

[Dresan]

That is untrue and always has been. Slashing attacks on poisonable weapons transfer poison just fine.

Source: Murders.

This statement is inaccurate. Its a gripe that has been brought up a couple times on the forum over the years.

That said, many years have passed since I tried it, so maybe things have changed at some point, definately something to test in game again, especially given the helpfile.

[Riev]

On a previous PC who could do master poisoning and brew, I noticed that when making poisons... it did not echo back to the player as a 'valid' combination and instead would always taste like ash.

Has this been fixed, so that if you DO make a poisonous mash, it will echo back correctly as a "tastes like: murder, death, betrayal'?

[Brytta Léofa]

On a previous PC who could do master poisoning and brew, I noticed that when making poisons... it did not echo back to the player as a 'valid' combination and instead would always taste like ash.

(I had tentatively concluded, because of this, that brewed poisons weren't a thing. Maybe I never tried eating 'em.)

[Riev]

On a previous PC who could do master poisoning and brew, I noticed that when making poisons... it did not echo back to the player as a 'valid' combination and instead would always taste like ash.

(I had tentatively concluded, because of this, that brewed poisons weren't a thing. Maybe I never tried eating 'em.)

As a character who ate one, on purpose, and had to have staff come help because I couldn't play the game for literal hours... they do work.

[Brokkr]

On a previous PC who could do master poisoning and brew, I noticed that when making poisons... it did not echo back to the player as a 'valid' combination and instead would always taste like ash.

(I had tentatively concluded, because of this, that brewed poisons weren't a thing. Maybe I never tried eating 'em.)

You could brew mashes that were poisonous.   You just couldn't apply them to weapons, etc.  And still can not.  You need to make them into a paste, which can be applied to a weapon, etc.

As a character who ate one, on purpose, and had to have staff come help because I couldn't play the game for literal hours... they do work.