The crisis new players are facing

[Iiyola]

A friend of mine has been trying to play Arm.

Its been very frustrating for him because its been extremely hard to find PC leaders for his PC to join their Clan.

Besides the fact that he hasn't been able to join a single Clan for 6 days because of unavailable PC leaders (and yes, he is playing during peak times), its particularly hard to sustain his PC, no matter which location they are: Luir's, Allanak, etc.

Since he is my friend, I was able to direct him to go greb in places and sell things to keep himself alive, but new players who don't have the resources to find this out, will be extremely demotivated to keep on going.

And hunting with a PC fresh out of chargen with shitty skills and gear is extremely hard if not dangerous.

This is a real crisis which I have experienced for a while with my current PC as well. What can we do to keep these PC's alive, and the players interested in the game without struggling 24/7 and grebbing/selling the whole time they are on, in order to keep on going?

Its particularly tragic since the PC he was playing literally starved to death. He put a lot of effort in that PC and liked it a lot. This shouldn't have to happen with newbs.

[Strongheart]

A friend of mine has been trying to play Arm.

Its been very frustrating for him because its been extremely hard to find PC leaders for his PC to join their Clan.

Besides the fact that he hasn't been able to join a single Clan for 6 days because of unavailable PC leaders (and yes, he is playing during peak times), its particularly hard to sustain his PC, no matter which location they are: Luir's, Allanak, etc.

Since he is my friend, I was able to direct him to go greb in places and sell things to keep himself alive, but new players who don't have the resources to find this out, will be extremely demotivated to keep on going.

And hunting with a PC fresh out of chargen with shitty skills and gear is extremely hard if not dangerous.

This is a real crisis which I have experienced for a while with my current PC as well. What can we do to keep these PC's alive, and the players interested in the game without struggling 24/7 and grebbing/selling the whole time they are on, in order to keep on going?

Its particularly tragic since the PC he was playing literally starved to death. He put a lot of effort in that PC and liked it a lot. This shouldn't have to happen with newbs.

Perfectly understandable. As it was their first PC, staff will likely let him re-app that character with some alterations, maybe this time he could start in Tuluk?

[X-D]

A long time ago I had a PC who wanted to join the Byn.

He got in touch with a couple runners...who gave the sarge name.

My PC would try and way the sarge while he waited outside the byn gates like every game day from early afternoon to night.

After a solid RL week of doing this and more then one wish up starting on RL day 4. (this was before request tool) A staffer finally took pity on me and animated the gate sarge and got him into the Byn.

Turned out that the player of the Byn sarge simply stopped playing without warning.

My PC later became sarge.

And like a week after my PC was promoted the sarge that went AWAL logged back in. Some kind of RL emergency had happened.

Anyway, Point being, player should get with staff...things can usually be worked out.

Hell, I had two times, once in Winrothol and once in Tor where my PC got promoted to officer by staff just because LAST MAN STANDING.

[Patuk]

Leader turnover has been really, really high lately. I don't know why this is, but it's an issue I wouldn't even know how to solve. Could some of the people who played some of our latest leaders speak up on the issue? Some of these roles have had so many call for them that I know you're out there!

[Narf]

Wishing up to staff for help with joining clans seems like a good option, but is there any way a new player would know to do that? I think putting a blurb spread across a few places in the help files that wishing up to join a clan is an acceptable alternative if a player can't find  a clan leader.

[Iiyola]

Its not his first PC, some have died before but he started playing about a month ago.

Still, even after having made a variety of PC's, new players have hardly learned how to sustain themselves. Hell, even I wouldn't be able to survive if I did not join a Clan in the nick of time.

Point is: There is no PC leadership available right now. Be it Byn, Kadius, Salarr (sparsely available), Militia.

But Iiyola, why won't you friend go to Tuluk?

No, he doesn't have to be forced to go to Tuluk and needing to learn a completely new culture while he just got settled in in Southern culture. He JUST got to learn how to find his way around Allanak, Luir's. He shouldn't have to be forced to relearn the mapping of a completely new city and its do's and don'ts.

Staff needs to step up and make NPC Leaders available for PC's to join a clan.

[Dracul]

Idea:

I've noticed a few npcs using walking scripts at times of day with longdesc changes.

Pair this with the Discuss code and we could use those codes to create a walkthrough sort of easy intro play.

This npc could be pointed at as someone to follow as they wander between a point or two in the cities. I also think the discuss code is great where it is and would love to see it fleshed out.

[Iiyola]

Wishing up to staff for help with joining clans seems like a good option, but is there any way a new player would know to do that? I think putting a blurb spread across a few places in the help files that wishing up to join a clan is an acceptable alternative if a player can't find  a clan leader.

New players should be notified that this is a possibility if their PC's aren't able to sustain themselves. Put it in the Rumor board? Make it an echo? Update the rumor board with newly appointed Leaders so someone isn't unnecessarily trying to Way an already stored/deceased leader for days?

I personally am hesitant to just rely on wishing up,  knowing that Staff prefers not to interfere too much with PC's.

[X-D]

Um...The request tool is right on the home page. There is a discord AND GDB and wishing up IG. Not trying to be mean here...But unless the player does not understand the concept of contacting staff. It is a pretty easy thing to figure out...since staff run all 4. I mean, I used to hate contacting staff and there was no discord, GDB or request tool, Yet I still figured out how to use email (and at the time mudmail) And mail off a big old SANVEAN....HELP!!!!!!. Tlaloc...where are youuuuu! Then wish up every 15 minutes.

[Iiyola]

Um...The request tool is right on the home page. There is a discord AND GDB and wishing up IG. Not trying to be mean here...But unless the player does not understand the concept of contacting staff. It is a pretty easy thing to figure out...since staff run all 4. I mean, I used to hate contacting staff and there was no discord, GDB or request tool, Yet I still figured out how to use email (and at the time mudmail) And mail off a big old SANVEAN....HELP!!!!!!. Tlaloc...where are youuuuu! Then wish up every 15 minutes.

Um.... (I personally hate it when people start off with this word, just leave it out. Its frustrating as it is)

New players aren't always that eager to reach out to staff, and sending in a request which not always gives for an immediate response. It shouldn't take long. The player wants to play, not wait on an emergency kit that might take days or even hours.
The GDB isn't much help, discord can only help so much.

This is an issue that NEW PLAYERS face, as they don't know where to start and which tools are readily available to use.

You and I know what to do in such situations. They don't. They need more guidance and there should generally be more accessibility to clans in order to get them through the first RL week and not having to focus on survival alone without even having the chance to RP.

[Iiyola]

Idea: Perhaps new PC's should get the opportunity to join the Byn at Chargen.

They would then get a list of do's and don'ts, and active PC's they can RP with. So they at least have food and water, and the player doesn't have to worry about survival while getting to know the city and game in general.

[Malken]

Um...The request tool is right on the home page. There is a discord AND GDB and wishing up IG. Not trying to be mean here...But unless the player does not understand the concept of contacting staff. It is a pretty easy thing to figure out...since staff run all 4. I mean, I used to hate contacting staff and there was no discord, GDB or request tool, Yet I still figured out how to use email (and at the time mudmail) And mail off a big old SANVEAN....HELP!!!!!!. Tlaloc...where are youuuuu! Then wish up every 15 minutes.

There's a huge difference between when you were a newbie (muds were still popular, maybe -1- popular PC game came out every 6 months) and now, when if you don't catch the new player's attention within an hour or two they will go elsewhere to entertain themselves (unless they are lucky and have someone like Iiyola telling them to keep trying).

As a webmaster, I know that I have 10 seconds tops to catch someone's attention when they visit a new page. After that, they are gone forever. How can we catch a new player's attention and make them want to remain within an hour?

The hardcore players who mostly only play Armageddon and never left the 90's will say that if new players aren't willing to put in the effort then they shouldn't be playing on a game like Armageddon.

Shadows of Isildur had a prompt that would let players know when a new player would enter the game. Maybe an idea?

Or allow new characters to choose a clan before they even enter the game and then alert the leaders of those clans the minute that clanned character step into the game. Let the players know that their membership in the clan isn't guaranteed and they are only clanned for the first 10 hours of playtime - long enough to find the leader of that clan.

[Patuk]

I agree that any solution leaning heavily on staff interaction, requests, etc, is doomed to fail. These tools aren't the game. Their usage should not be commonplace or the default go-to. It needs to be much more organic than that.

[X-D]

In this case you can help.

And The first page of the home page has a "new to muds" Section, player helpers...GDB, request tool Heck, even a spot that says in great big letters GET LIVE HELP! prefaced with "Stuck? Need an answer?
Get quick help from one of our helpers!"

Newb help is plastered all over, The GDB has a dedicated Ask the staff section!

As to join Byn at chargen...Nah, that would just lead to, I don't want to join the Byn, we should be able to join (insert clan here) at chargen.

Malken, So you are saying that they should not look at the first page of the homepage first or know the rules and look at the docs?

Again, help is plastered all over the very first page you should be looking at.

Though, I would not be against helpers IN game being notified when a first PC on an account logs in, I do not see how that could hurt anything.

But even in game there is newbie area...and even if you type Help newbie you get this.

help newbie

Newbie                                                               (Topics)

   Armageddon MUD is a richly-detailed, complex game, and it is be hard to
start out here. Please read through at least the following help files, to
help yourself get started.

     Armageddon                Beginner                  death
     FAQ                       help                      Character
     Control                   Combat                    Communication
     Items                     General                   Geography
     Magick                    Perception                Movement
     Templar                   Topics                    Trade
     Maps                      Roleplaying               Top40

Notes:
   To access the category listings of help files, you will need to type
"help help <topic>" and not just "help <topic>"; "help help control"
will show you a listing of all the help files related to game controls,
whereas "help control" will not work.

[Malken]

Malken, So you are saying that they should not look at the first page of the homepage first or know the rules and look at the docs?

That's exactly what I'm saying. Welcome to the 21st-century gaming community. Ain't nobody got time for dat.

You get them to read the docs AFTER you hooked them in.

You get them to experience the best part the game has to offer and your most important rules within the first hour.

[Malken]

Also, there are dozen of staff and rarely more than 30 players online. How is it that nobody on staff watches what new players go through and try to adjust their experience? How is it that it gets to the point that a new player would starve to death when it takes hours for it to happen? Why do they not intervene through NPCs or other means? Staff has ways to get prompts when someone is starving or in a shitty situation. Why are they letting new players fall through the crack like this?

[lairos]

This is definitely a problem and is faced by several issues currently.

1. Many players, even leadership, have less playtimes. If we each play 2 hours a day. There are high chances that the playtimes won't always match and those 2 hours can vary.
2. Leadership roles and chicken or the egg. Nobles without aides have a harder time and nobles if they can't find byn or people to do things churn. Byn without contracts mean no one wants to join the byn and those leaders churn. Templars with soldiers have a hard time making things happen.
3.We seem to be at a spot now that many roles and clans are open without either the numbers or players who currently wish to play in those roles. Tuluk opened and I am sure more players are there vs elsewhere.

I can go on, but there is not an easy solve for this. If they don't want to go where most of the players are likely to be and have not tried wishing up, there isn't anything in place currently.

I do like the idea of being able to have an npc recruit you into the Byn and you then can gain access to the gdb. If nothing else, maybe you could submit a request to join if you've not heard for staff to help ping the leader to help them find you.

[X-D]

I am against auto-recruiting of any kind Unless some new nothing clan was made just for it.

Anybody who has ever played a leader PC should be as well.

Remember, Even the Byn can and does refuse to recruit people. Remember, Though the Byn is likely the most newb friendly of the clans...it is NOT a newbie clan. How annoying would it be to log in all the time having to deal with dumping new auto-recruits all the time? Or the joy of the newb trying to steal everything, attack PCs while they sleep, Npcs etc. It happens enough as is even with other players around to guide them after IC recruiting. At least the player who stands outside the gates for a couple hours a day and wishes up now and again and uses the request tool might actually be serious about the PC they play and that is seen by staff if they have to animate to recruit or give the PC the info to be recruited.

Malken, I do not agree and that thinking at best just returns you to the times of just a slew of dwarves entering the game and trying to attack everybody in the Gaj or where ever.

I for one am not interested in the type of people who cannot be bothered to spend 15 minutes at least glancing at the instructions.

[Iiyola]

So let's just let the new players flounder around without any support, you're saying?

You can't compare nowadays with the way Arm was 10 or even 5 years ago.

Due to the lack of leadership availability new players are doomed and will lose interest and quit the game.

[Patuk]

Clans auto-recruit all the time; it is the default mode for most tribes, and they get along perfectly well.

[X-D]

I never said no support, In fact I pointed out all the support already in place, and there is a LOT as well as agreeing to one idea.

But I also think there should be minimum standards...and that is already FAR below what it was when many people think was the glory days of Arm RP. (not saying anybody is currently bad) But there was a time when the arm learning curve was MUCH steeper then it is now and many of you remember it. Myself, I considered that a draw. I think many others did too, What a mud with CHALLENGE? No...lets see if it is all hype.

I would also like to suggest that players Look out for the newbs in game and help them when you can. I always do. And I mean always. Heck, more then once I have had staff complain about OOC in "public" But have never complained about what I was doing, just where. And I am not even a "helper".

That is really the BEST thing you can do.


Really Patuk...which tribe can you join without apping TO the tribe and being accepted by staff? That is FAR from auto-recruit and I bet it is rather rare that a first PC can app into arabet.

[Tranquil]

How annoying would it be to log in all the time having to deal with dumping new auto-recruits all the time? Or the joy of the newb trying to steal everything, attack PCs while they sleep, Npcs etc.

Even if this -did- happen, I see nothing wrong with it.

Bad things should happen, and Zalanthas is a brutal world with brutal justice. If you stole 'everything', the Sergeant would probably kill you or punish you harshly. That's more fun for the Sergeant, and likely anyone that's involved. IC rule-breaking isn't a bad thing. The Byn is a mercenary company that hires anything that lives, breathes, can swing a sword, and doesn't practice gickery. It stands to reason that you'd get delinquents trying to break cots every-so-often. The benefits outweigh the 'consequences', atleast what you think are OOC consequences.

I support a way of joining the Byn through chargen, but only the Byn, IMO. It doesn't fit for any other clan really. The AoD has alot of limitations, and the Sergeants are far choosier then a Byn Sergeant would be.

[X-D]

The Byn is a mercenary company that hires anything that lives, breathes, can swing a sword, and doesn't practice gickery.

Not true.

It stands to reason that you'd get delinquents trying to break cots every-so-often. The benefits outweigh the 'consequences', atleast what you think are OOC consequences.

Big difference between somebody who is actually playing a PC that does such things and some griefer gaming the system. Which happens far too often with the current system. It was far worse not to many years ago when there was a large push to get new players. Some of you might even remember the New dead dwarf in the gaj/byn/elsewhere every single day, And sometimes that griefer being successful in killing somebodies PC. At which point staff workload to check things out and maybe give a res goes up.

Some Byn sarges are VERY choosy. It would make more sense to auto clan into the crimson winds. But I doubt you would agree.

[Malken]

it is NOT a newbie clan.

It actually is.

How annoying would it be to log in all the time having to deal with dumping new auto-recruits all the time?

Damn, imagine how annoying it would be that we suddenly get dozens of new players a day, poor leadership players having to "dump new recruits all the time". At best, you'd have to dump a couple of players every week or so.

Or the joy of the newb trying to steal everything, attack PCs while they sleep, Npcs etc.

I love how people here constantly chanting "Trust your fellow players, trust your fellow players..." but each time a new idea like this is put forth it's all how players will abuse it... Already going on in Discord and the GDB and the idea has been out for a couple of hours only. The hypocrisy of the player base at its best once more.

Malken, I do not agree and that thinking at best just returns you to the times of just a slew of dwarves entering the game and trying to attack everybody in the Gaj or where ever.

Are you telling me that dwarves are now karma-gated? If not I have no idea how any of this prevents people from rolling dwarves for murder.

[Patuk]

I would rather see a dumb idiot do dumb idiot things some more if it means our new players don't literally starve for being unable to join a damn clan. It's a tradeoff I'd take every time, every single time, for sure.

And please, by God, discuss leader turnover with people who die/store as well as yourselves, staff. This could all be avoided if CONTACT SERGEANT actually worked.