The crisis new players are facing

[Veselka]

The auto-enlist option being brought up doesn't address the actual problem though.

When Amos gets auto-enlisted into the Byn, then what? He wasn't able to get enlisted via a PC, because there are no PCs who play when he's playing.  That doesn't change when he gets his crew patch.  Except now he has access to gruel and water and a sparring dummy.  And no one to play with.

I'm not seeing how this helps new players at all.

Ways it helps new players:

-You are assuming that because there is not a Sergeant PC around, there is 'no one' around in the Byn. I find that to be mostly not true. There are many times I've been in the Byn and only seen the Sergeant every few RL days, if that, because they are busy running contracts, getting contracts, and being a PC. They aren't always around to recruit people, or to lead drills. That's what Troopers and First Troopers are for.

-Leadership PCs are not always around. Even when they are around, they are around at the times that suit them (That may be peak, or off-peak, or some smattering in-between). Some PCs/Players play OPPOSITE of any/all leadership PCs of a given clan, including the T'zai Byn. However, this doesn't mean there aren't active players that share their timezone and are around when they would be recruited.

-The Onboarding I'm talking about (personally) isn't just auto-enlisting new player PC's into the T'zai Byn. It's part of an experience, involving a NPC with a discuss script (Of which has been recently revamped and is pretty robust!) that gives the following to a PC:

-Rundown of what the organization is
-Rundown of what would be expected of them
-Rundown of the Rules
-Rundown of how long they would be in
-Modified script that says who the active Sergeants are (You'll want to report in to Sergeant Soandso and Sergeant Dingle when you get a chance, they'll be overseeing your unit.)
-Do you want to join the T'zai Byn? On yes, they prompt them to give 300 coins and in return they get an aba and a patch. Randomize which patch it is to which active units there are.

After this, it opens up:
-What weapon will you spar with? Axe, sword, spear, or club? They say outloud which one.
Sergeant gives them the weapon.
Prompt leads to:
'Alright, fall in, I'll give you a tour of the compound.'

On the PC following them, they go into the compound, grant them clan access, and give the OOC about how to file a request, how to join the clan boards, and that this is a NPC not a PC. Find Sergeant Soandso and Dingle for PC Sergeants active in the game.

I see this as a huge benefit for new players.

Why?

Because the majority of new players log in for the first time to the Gaj, not knowing who a PC or NPC is, what the fuck is going on, why it's going on, who people are, what this game is...And they just close the client and never log in again.

This provides a streamlined experience for new players, gets them involved in what is ostensibly the most referred to 'newbie clan' in the game (even if X-D says it isn't a newbie clan, it's what EVERYONE recommends to new players). It sets them up for success as a PLAYER, while getting their PC into a clan and ready to get grabbed up for contracts, for training, and for PC to PC interaction.

New Players now, at best, get a 'Gaj Introduction'. Which can range from being outright ignored, to weird RP that isn't indicative of what ArmageddonMUD has to offer, or no PCs present at all, leaving them to wander around looking for any interaction.

With onboarding them automatically, you are quite literally pushing them into almost guaranteed interaction. The Byn is one of the most populated clans in the game, at any given time, with some very minor exceptions since its opening/reopening. Any time I've been mostly off-peak, I play in the Byn. I'm guaranteed to find 1-2 people who are also off-peak. I play on peak, I'm guaranteed to find 3-5 people at any given time, sometimes more depending on fluctuations.

I don't see a downside to doing this for new players. It's their first PC. The Byn is arguably the most 'Zalanthas' clan that ArmageddonMUD has to offer in experience. Let's get them into the shit.

[Narf]

I'm actually going to tangentially agree with something XD said. If you want a newbie clan, you'd be much better off designing it from scratch to be just that. The Byn may be used as a training ground for new players, but that's kind of a hack job if you really think about it. The Byn is designed as a Fighty clan, and that's what they do. They don't craft, they don't (usually) do much wilderness survival, they certainly aren't involved in criminal activity to any significant degree, but these are all major aspects of the game.  If you tried to use the Byn as the "new player" clan you'd have them missing out on what, by the class design, amounts to 3/4's of the game. The odds that a given new player would even have a character designed for play in the Byn is certainly less than 50/50.

If there's to be a new player clan, it should be made from the ground up with that in mind. You can design it so that it's actually suitable for most new players as opposed to a small subset.

[Hauwke]

I'd just like to say that I think some of you vets need to play a Bynner. The Byn changed not super long ago and units as they were oncd known barely exist. Sparring weapons are also not just handed out anymore.

Thanks for reading, try the Byn. It's got stuff.

[Armaddict]

In it's current state (or the state I last played in it in, which was last year sometime), the Byn is -not- where I'd suggest new players go.  Why?

As veterans, we focus on the ability to get good enough to survive safely.  However, the Byn's schedule and routine is one that is very restrictive and regimented; a new player is not looking for that kind of job in a game, unless we find a way to not just liven things up, but liven it up A LOT.  Not with just these nice little gatherings where people joke around, but with content that is new, exciting, and exposes them to that first feeling of Armageddon sweeping them up into things they don't know or understand but holy-shit-this-is-awesome-and-oh-no-oh-no-and-I-died-I-must-create-a-new-character.

Historically, while the Byn was often this regimented, there was enough world-events going on and external clans to provide a huge variety of content and intrigue for the mercenary type.  Historically, some players gravitate towards Byn-like clans because the combat code is cool enough to them that they don't mind relentless sparring.  However, also historically, we had a lot more availability of 'free-roam' clans where new players could join up, have a crew, but be free to explore the world inside and outside the city, make mistakes, and be exposed to things.  Hunting groups, noble guards, multi-faction crime, and multi-faction military.

I don't think most people trying out Armageddon will be thrilled by tight restrictions right off the bat.  So I agree with XD.  If you want a newbie clan that people can auto-join, start it from scratch, with much more variety available and much less restriction, but also with a natural state of 'moving on to something else' as time passes.

[Inks]

Better to icly hire, imo. Nice to know who is who ic.

That being said. Having inactive clan leaders sucks hard. If you don't have time ooc don't take a leader position.

[Iiyola]

Better to icly hire, imo. Nice to know who is who ic.

That's why leaders have Who C

But really, lets be real here: I have yet to see the Byn refusing an applicant (in fact, Sergeants are nearly begging for new members) and therefore the "interviews" are a bit redundant.

"You want in?"
"Yes."
"You have 300 coins?"
"Yes"
"Here's your aba."

[Jihelu]

I've never had an interview be more than what was described, occasionally it seems they try to newbie vet to make sure I know how to walk down the street and where the compound is but once they figure out that I can breath they go 'alright heres your aba'.

[Inks]

But...I enjoy the generic joining tour. 

[Dar]

Sigh. Byn. One of few clans I can go full Wacko and not be kicked out.

Once joined Byn, was immediately (before even entering the compound) brought on an escort trip to luirs. Got stung with skelle and spent the next two days trying to convince everyone my Sargeant is naked with weird mutant schlong and calling some random chick my Mom.

What clan can you join and be so awesomely weird without people going into gains/liabilities calculation?

[Kenchi]

But...I enjoy the generic joining tour. 

Joining tour doesnt need to be removed, but a NPC recruited could be available to recruit if no Sergeant PC is online. Doesnt need to be the end all, but an option.

[Bogre]

The auto-enlist option being brought up doesn't address the actual problem though.

When Amos gets auto-enlisted into the Byn, then what? He wasn't able to get enlisted via a PC, because there are no PCs who play when he's playing.  That doesn't change when he gets his crew patch.  Except now he has access to gruel and water and a sparring dummy.  And no one to play with.

I'm not seeing how this helps new players at all.

The key thing is having them be directed to the clan forums and have the leader PCs notified that they joined.

Another option is to have a chargen option be: Would you like to join the Byn? Would you like to join Kurac? - whereafter the leaders/staff are notified. If there's no PCs generally around the staff could edit that part of the role app or whatever.

Speaking from my experience in Atonement, where I was a leader in a military clan that you could start as a recruit, private, or corporal-rank (New, 1 karma, 2 karma equivalents) in a clan, you would get a notification that -so and so- has logged into the game for the first time and be able to find/grab them. Incidentally also had a notify function, where you could oocly alert the clan you were online and so people would kind of go looking for RP.

[Iiyola]

Incidentally also had a notify function, where you could oocly alert the clan you were online and so people would kind of go looking for RP.

That would be an amazing option.

[Barsook]

Incidentally also had a notify function, where you could oocly alert the clan you were online and so people would kind of go looking for RP.

That would be an amazing option.

[sucre]

Speaking from my experience in Atonement, where I was a leader in a military clan that you could start as a recruit, private, or corporal-rank (New, 1 karma, 2 karma equivalents) in a clan, you would get a notification that -so and so- has logged into the game for the first time and be able to find/grab them. Incidentally also had a notify function, where you could oocly alert the clan you were online and so people would kind of go looking for RP.

The notify feature of Atonement and SoI was one of two things I loved most about those games. The second was their crafting system, but that's for another thread.

[X-D]

SOI crafting totally sucked balls. Right after 2 hand inventory and closing Mordor.

[Inks]

2 hand system was awful, agreed.