Encourage spice use with more spice code

[X-D]

I still have not figured out why spice decay even went in.

Before decay, We would yes, often have pretty large stashes of spice, and yes, at times the PCs would have it for a long time. But it also meant we were not afraid to use it and make sure we were kept stocked up on it. Red Fangs, Salarr ED, Byn, Militia and Legion and other groups. And we would almost always buy in larger amounts. Now, IF you get it at all you tend to only get pinches and run essentually "just in time". First trooper, go get 1 pinch for each person going on this contract, of these spices.

That way, if you do not use it, No big deal if that small amount ends up going bad.

And that is IF they bother at all, which, normally you do not...more hassle then it is worth.

[Tranquil]

Spice code is finnicky and the decay WAS lengthened recently. I've had spice last for upwards of an IRL month in a room, but it has to be in large quantities (thal-knot, brick) and be in spice storing containers.

As far as I know, containers (kits, boxes, special crates) have differing qualities of spice storage, but that's FOIC territory.

Despite all this, I do think pinches and knots should last longer, and ESPECIALLY their effects. Arm is a slow game, and 30 mins of a spice effect is often just not long enough until you get to the actual action. Good luck snorting spice infront of the troupe of templars because it took an hour and a half to prepare, and get to the actual battle.

[mansa]

Spice Decay went in because:

a) Kurac players couldn't find buyers for spice, because everybody had a large stock of spice.
b) Dust Runner players couldn't find buyers for spice, because everybody had a large stock of spice.
c) Guild players couldn't find buyers for spice, because everybody had a large stock of spice.

So, the 'transactional storylines for spice' wasn't being played out in the game, since everybody already had a large collection of spice.


In my opinion about spice decay, I still believe:
(https://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,55334.msg1041349/topicseen.html#msg1041349)

I would like to see the spice decay rates sped up on the larger quantities, rather than linearly increased.   I would like to see the smaller quantities of spice decay at a slower rate than current.

eg.
If we assume it's 4x the quantity in the next tier:

Pinch decays after 24 hours -> 24 hours
Knot decays after 4x24 hours -> 96 hours
Thal-Knot decays after 4x96 hours -> 384 hours
Brick decays after 4x384 hours -> 1536 hours

to change to
Pinch decays after 48 hours -> 48 hours
Knot decays after 4x48 hours -> 192 hours
Thal-Knot decays after 3x192 hours -> 576 hours
Brick decays after 2x576 hours -> 1152 hours

[Hauwke]

Maybe instead of decaying and becoming rancid, it could lose potency? It might still give a brief high, but it wouldn't spoil?

I have very little experience with the spice code, admittedly. I don't know if this is already how it works.

As far as I'm aware of this isn't the case, spice goes from perfectly fine to gone with no inbetween stages that I've seen (I had some in my personal box once and it just randomly disappeared one day, and this is in a secure location with a single key that I possess.)

To quote the wisdom of Goldilocks and the three bears.
No decay is too hot
Too much decay is too cold
There's an inbetween somewhere.

It goes oily, then it goes rockhard then it just dissappears.

[dumbstruck]

Spice Decay went in because:

a) Kurac players couldn't find buyers for spice, because everybody had a large stock of spice.
b) Dust Runner players couldn't find buyers for spice, because everybody had a large stock of spice.
c) Guild players couldn't find buyers for spice, because everybody had a large stock of spice.

So, the 'transactional storylines for spice' wasn't being played out in the game, since everybody already had a large collection of spice.

You assume. Now that decay code is in and actively being blamed for why people aren't using spice, has it actually made anyone buy more spice? Has anyone who plays this game experienced an increase in peoe actually buying spice as a result of the decay code going in? Anyone at all? Could literally one person chime in and tell me how having this item that a lot of people are having an issue with decaying has enriched their game play by decaying? Or how decaying has even had it's intended effect? If even just one person who has been a spice seller in game since it went in can tell me different, I promise I will drop the notion of it being nothong but harmful.

[Jihelu]

Maybe instead of decaying and becoming rancid, it could lose potency? It might still give a brief high, but it wouldn't spoil?

I have very little experience with the spice code, admittedly. I don't know if this is already how it works.

As far as I'm aware of this isn't the case, spice goes from perfectly fine to gone with no inbetween stages that I've seen (I had some in my personal box once and it just randomly disappeared one day, and this is in a secure location with a single key that I possess.)

To quote the wisdom of Goldilocks and the three bears.
No decay is too hot
Too much decay is too cold
There's an inbetween somewhere.

It goes oily, then it goes rockhard then it just dissappears.

Maybe it was so quick because the amount of spice I had, wasn't large pieces, but it poofed on me pretty damn quick

"You assume. Now that decay code is in and actively being blamed for why people aren't using spice, has it actually made anyone buy more spice? Has anyone who plays this game experienced an increase in peoe actually buying spice as a result of the decay code going in? Anyone at all? Could literally one person chime in and tell me how having this item that a lot of people are having an issue with decaying has enriched their game play by decaying? Or how decaying has even had it's intended effect? If even just one person who has been a spice seller in game since it went in can tell me different, I promise I will drop the notion of it being nothong but harmful."

That's why this entire thread exists: Make spice more useful so people are willing to use it, and I actively mentioned they should also decrease the spice decay.
Mansa has said:
1: People won't buy spice because everyone already has spice
You have  said
2: People won't buy spice because it decays so fast
Your only contribution is 'Go back to option 1' when option 1 leads to the exact same thing.
That's why the thread is suggestion we make spice more useful to hopefully change the cycle of 'no one is buying spice'. Do YOU have proof or evidence that people were actively buying spice when it didn't decay? You keep asking for this 'if anyone' stuff, so where's your support for your own argument?

[Aruven]

So the ability to buy a brick of spice with no decay is garbage for a clan that makes its coins off spice trading. There's a couple reasons for this, but consistency is the prevalent one. I'm not running a business I make one sale every two years and survive on.

There are ways to preserve spice in game, don't be a cheapo.

Use spice more.

I love this thread. I just don't want to see people having 40 bricks of spice in a warehouse again (unless it's being distributed that month) as imo that's ultimately bad for the gameworld.

[Jihelu]

So the ability to buy a brick of spice with no decay is garbage for a clan that makes its coins off spice trading. There's a couple reasons for this, but consistency is the prevalent one. I'm not running a business I make one sale every two years and survive on.

There are ways to preserve spice in game, don't be a cheapo.

Use spice more.

I love this thread. I just don't want to see people having 40 bricks of spice in a warehouse again (unless it's being distributed that month) as imo that's ultimately bad for the gameworld.

I'll say it again, I've seen several noble chests full of spice and I don't think we should ever return to the page spam sized containers of spice that never go away. It's silly.

[Bogre]

The reward is not much worth the hassle.

If spice gave you an IRL couple hours benefit, or an in game day, it would be much more appealing. I've posted before that the habit should have certain levels - wherein you can maintain an increased benefit reasonably, so long as your supply is good. But you lose supply, you feel really down for a couple days. Casual use should be pretty good and reasonable to maintain - but the benefits, and resultant crash, are even better if you're slamming like an addict and then drop supply.

Not the system of 'ok I can get a stat boost or two for 30 mins, hope I don't cripple my character with the addiction code'.

Instead something like: Lord Thinksalot Sath smokes methelinoc every morning because it sharpens him for the day (and enjoys the +1, +2 wisdom for it or whatever). If he uses more than that, he's really on it, but then has a few days where he's hungover/hurting before he recovers.



Basically - spice, spice trafficking plots become -way- more important if the coded mechanics behind spice improve. Imagine your Allanaki human hunter that's keeping himself alive with krelez and warspice as he hunts spiders - whats he gonna do if his supply dries out? Or your Jaxa Pah seer who's keeping themself alive by running around hopped up on spice?

[X-D]

Chests full of spice bricks is a problem? I mean, least they were buying it.

Spice use is way down because of decay. I will not bother buying something with a limited time to use. UNLESS it was REALLY cheap or had really cool effects with a really low risk. And though many might not chime in to agree...they play it that way all the same.

You want people to actually use it? and Keep decay the same?

Easy.

#1 lower price to 1/4 what it is now.
#2 Make it 2X as powerful, either in time or affect.
#3 Make addiction 1/10 as painful.

What is amusing to me is I bet that just doing #2 and #3 would have increased spice use without decay and you could have actually raised the price.

[Lotion]

We should remove processed spice and magic and close everywhere but the tablelands so that people get murdered over who gets to break a cactus.

[Patuk]

We should stop shitting up threads with interesting suggestions and do that anywhere else instead.
Let's try to either be productive, or non-critical of other players' posting styles here.



(not deleted so as to be transparent)

[Aruven]

Chests full of spice bricks is a problem? I mean, least they were buying it.

Spice use is way down because of decay. I will not bother buying something with a limited time to use. UNLESS it was REALLY cheap or had really cool effects with a really low risk. And though many might not chime in to agree...they play it that way all the same.

You want people to actually use it? and Keep decay the same?

Easy.

#1 lower price to 1/4 what it is now.
#2 Make it 2X as powerful, either in time or affect.
#3 Make addiction 1/10 as painful.

What is amusing to me is I bet that just doing #2 and #3 would have increased spice use without decay and you could have actually raised the price.

I don't like #1. That leans into the 'chest full of bricks'. Yeah you bought that from an agent of kurac, and then that agent stored and another agent rolled in but everyone had 20 bricks of spice in their chest already so that new agent never made money.

I like #2, and I think #3 can be tweaked a bit for sure.

You don't want to buy it because of decay? Get PK'd a couple of times by someone who does because of the advantages it gives them in combat and that'll change REAL quick for the playerbase. This would mean only #2 needs to be tried first.

In theory, you could play with decay but, i've always been a fan of an in-game economy and that puts some cogs in it imo--That's probably for another thread though, not the specifics of spice use.

[Delirium]

Crossposting from my post in the game improvements thread...

Quadruple the amount of time spice lasts if we must have a decay timer at all. Food I get, but spice shouldn't decay, considering its origins. If the intention was to create more demand, it is backfiring, as right now the rate that spice decays at is actively damaging the trade and decreasing the demand for it. Spice should last multiple IG years when left in a spicebox on a table. Nobody even uses spiceboxes any more, they carry it on their person so that it doesn't go bad while they're logged out because the timer is so punishing. It's such a weird meta. Yes, I know different "sizes" last different times, but even a pinch of spice should last a couple IG years left in a spicebox instead of in your pocket. It's a drug from the silt sea in a desert world. It should not rot easily.

Spice is a PAIN IN THE ASS as currently implemented. Yes, I get that people had decades old stockpiles, but you could make spice last, in game, without logging out with it, for a couple RL years, and still achieve the objective of not having ancient stockpiles. Right now the decay timer is too punishing and the affects wear off too quick.

Want people to go through the right channels? Leave the decay timer as is on grains of spice but make refined spice last a long, long, long long time. I'm talking like 6 rl months for a pinch left in a spicebox on a table.

Fix the overly punishing decay timer and too-short effect timer and you will see a lot more people making use of spice.

[Lotion]

If the value skill allowed people to assess how effective a container is at preserving its contents (there's no way staff coded spice preservation containers and food preservation containers to work differently) methinks it would go a long way.

[Aruven]

If the value skill allowed people to assess how effective a container is at preserving its contents (there's no way staff coded spice preservation containers and food preservation containers to work differently) methinks it would go a long way.

Wow and it might also make value skill valuable 🤣🤣

+1

[Dar]

Chests full of spice bricks is a problem? I mean, least they were buying it.

Spice use is way down because of decay. I will not bother buying something with a limited time to use. UNLESS it was REALLY cheap or had really cool effects with a really low risk. And though many might not chime in to agree...they play it that way all the same.

You want people to actually use it? and Keep decay the same?

Easy.

#1 lower price to 1/4 what it is now.
#2 Make it 2X as powerful, either in time or affect.
#3 Make addiction 1/10 as painful.

What is amusing to me is I bet that just doing #2 and #3 would have increased spice use without decay and you could have actually raised the price.

I don't like #1. That leans into the 'chest full of bricks'. Yeah you bought that from an agent of kurac, and then that agent stored and another agent rolled in but everyone had 20 bricks of spice in their chest already so that new agent never made money.

I like #2, and I think #3 can be tweaked a bit for sure.

You don't want to buy it because of decay? Get PK'd a couple of times by someone who does because of the advantages it gives them in combat and that'll change REAL quick for the playerbase. This would mean only #2 needs to be tried first.

In theory, you could play with decay but, i've always been a fan of an in-game economy and that puts some cogs in it imo--That's probably for another thread though, not the specifics of spice use.

Theoretical defeated by practical.

People have bricks of spice stored? That's because they are not bothering to use it.

Getting PKed by people who do use spice. Sooo ... Are people getting PKed by those who use spice frequently? That hasn't been my observation. Even Crimson Fist itself, with a cheap, easy, and infinite source of spice do not have a tradition of spice use.

You can come up with all kinds of arguments. But the reality ends up being that people consistantly choose not to bother with spice. Even at a fraction of a price. 

 

[MeTekillot]

People use magick because the more you do it, the better it gets, the more rewarding it is.

Same with grebbing. Or crafting. Or training.

Make spice the same. Right now, excess spice use only results in excess penalties. Give benefits in exchange for taking on those penalties.

Sure, +10 strength for 45 minutes is nice if you huff 3 pinches. But then you need to abstain for 8 RL hours to be safe about addiction.

Addiction is absolutely OOCly repulsive. Make it OOCly attractive instead.

[X-D]

I agree with Dar and MeTekillot.

Want to keep decay in (still think it is stupid) Then spice needs to have things that overcome #1 addiction
#2 decay #3 price #4 duration compared to addiction.

The addiction code is kind of a joke BTW...alright, not kind of...it is a total joke.

(edit) Only talking physical addiction mind you.

If you were to do heroin 3 times a day for 6 months...You know how long it takes to get past withdraw/dt etc?

3 days.

Did it for a year?

3 days

5 years?

3days.

(another edit) Yes, I know that 3 times a day for 5 years going cold could mean you die...But if you do not...still 72 hours.

spice? Any of the above could take you more then 100 hours RL time.

[Aruven]

I understand and see the merit of the suggestions.

I tried to put up concerns but they come from a players experience, and admittedly, I don't see spice used often.

I do feel like the solution being favored is:

"Give players a super bomb buff and remove the negative side effects or we won't use it"

As always, I mediate towards roleplay, not code when I can input opinion. I dont know if I want everyone in zalanthas snorting spice because it's cheaper than it is now. I dont know if I want spice to be buffed into insanity because players can consistently brutalize without a penalty that I feel is a LITTLE blown out of proportion.

I wouldn't cry if the changes were made ultimately. It might be epic if they just wholesale made it cheap and removed addiction code. Glad to see a discussion around it.

[Evilone]

I think spice definitely needs something to make it more appealing. Either buff the effects from pinches, not grains, and keep everything else the same, or just extend decay timer. No decay we saw trunks full of spice because it did last forever, but even then my Kuraci Agent never had any trouble selling it, and my Salarri Crew Leader friend was jealous of the coin I could make. There's very little chance the chests of spice would happen now with any decay timer, but in its current state its not so appealing to me as a player. I'd hope a pinch of spice could sit on a table for 6 RL weeks at least, and double that at least when in spice boxes.
Spice should really become a bigger part of the game, and the Guild and Dust Runners are so busy its a struggle to keep up with demand in Allanak.

Armageddon MUD Seasonal Event - The Spice Wars.

Would have been a good time for something like this when Dune came out.