Encourage spice use with more spice code

[MeTekillot]

Due to the upcoming release of Dune, I've been doing a lot of thinking about spice. I'm also a player who judiciously uses spice on almost all of my characters, both to try to encourage its use in other players because I find it themely, and also because it has extremely robust bonuses if used right.

So my ideas is as follows, to encourage its use by more people via making spice even more effective (with drawbacks), and by making it easier to use.

===Casual Spice User===
Functions more or less the same as spice does now with the addition of the following:

• Occasionally send message to the player to let them know how close they are to becoming addicted to a certain type of spice.

Code Select Expand


A passing desire/persistent want/gnawing need for methelinoc floats through your awareness.
You find yourself unable to get the feeling of zharal out of your mind.
You sense a flagging in your self-confidence; you also sense that a pinch of melem tuek would easily remedy it.


• Generic messages or tailored messages that flesh out how exactly the spice benefits the person, either way.
• As well, give the player tiered messages as they approach the instant death overdose threshold of too much spice use.

Code Select Expand


After using that krelez, you suddenly find yourself short of breath as your heart slams alarmingly in your chest.
You become uncomfortably aware of a foreboding strain in your muscles as the melem tuek courses through you.
After that last bit of methelinoc, you feel a sudden but fleeting mental fog clouding over your sharpened awareness.


• These messages could be prompted to the player when they are 50% and 75% of the way toward an overdose of the spice.

From this, I also propose adding two levels of spice addiction past this point.
Spice Addict
Spice Fiend
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• When they reach Spice Addiction, a person who is 'watch'ing them talk without a face covering will occasionally notice -- via the same interface as hemotes -- that there is a bluish tinge to their teeth and gums.

Code Select Expand


You notice: As he speaks, you spot streaks of cyan blue veins through the tall, muscular man's gums.
You notice: Whilst talking, flashes of blue can be seen on the tall, muscular man's teeth.


• A spice addict will also suffer the addiction code as it currently stands if they decide to abstain. If they survive through it, they can settle back to the level of a casual spice user.
• However, in exchange for their reliance on spice, a Spice Addict should have a heightened threshold for overdose, and benefit more from spice use.
• I would argue that the bonuses should be appreciable but not ludicrous. 25-50% increase to overdose, 50% to 75% increase to the bonuses from use?

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And to the proposed final level of being a "Spice Fiend" (maybe a little dramatic, but a working title)

• The same as a Spice Addict, as pertains to speaking without a facial covering.
• They can never undo their reliance on spice, barring some sort of likely magickal or otherwise astronomically difficult to obtain herbal decoction.
• As well, anyone who looks at them will notice their eyes are blue -- if their eyes are uncovered anyway. It would append to 'assess' and to their long description, in much the same manner of some current affects. Anyone watching them when they 'scan', 'assess', or 'look' would also have a chance to notice, even if their eyes are covered.

Code Select Expand


The tall, muscular man is in excellent condiiton.
The tall, muscular man's eyes are solid orbs of cyan blue, iris and sclera barely distinguishable.
--
The tall, muscular man scans the area intently.
You notice: As his eyes dart about, you can see the tall, muscular man's eyes are uniformly cyan in color.


• If they cease their use of spice, they will suffer damage in a manner quite similar to the starvation and dehydration systems until they receive another dose.

Code Select Expand


You are struck with both a blinding pain in your skull and a maddening desire for methelinoc.
Weakness saps your limbs as if from an outside force -- you can barely move without more melem tuek.
You feel a lurch in your chest and darkness creeps into the edges of your vision. You need more krelez.


• In exchange for becoming hopelessly dependent on spice, the character's overdose threshold and benefit from spice use should be raised significantly. Perhaps two or three times that of a Casual Spice User, with perhaps double or 250% the benefits of each dose.

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I believe this could add significantly to the flavor of our world. Rather than every impactful antagonist plot being reliant on taking out some magickal threat, it could be something as mundane as a pack of Spice Fiending raiders out in the sands, their bodies both warped and superhuman due to their abuse of the melange.
--
Or, another avenue of leverage and competition to whoever wants to be the baddest fighter, the fastest rogue, deftest crafter, or slickest merchant in the Bazaar.
--
A bounty could be placed by this month's flavor of Allanki Templar -- five small for every head with the eyes of a Spice Fiend.
--
In true culture shock fashion, being able to reach this level of bodily dependence on spice could be a status symbol for Tuluki Citizenry and Nobility. Their expertise and capability is unquestionable, because they have the finances to push their bodies and minds beyond metahuman limits without the foul taint of magick. And when the most talented artisans, bards, and warriors in the city find themselves too proud for their betters? It takes only a word from a Faithful or Chosen to have their supply cut off until they fall into step.

I think this would ultimately encourage more spice use. Not even with everybody desiring to have a spice-addicted characters -- the cautious messaging I suggested as regards to overdose and addiction can have more people occasionally using spice to bolster their odds without the anxiety over addiction with no warning.

I think spice use is themely, and while I do believe the systems in place already encourage it, I think it could be encouraged more while adding to both the coded and the atmospheric systems of the game. Not every plot has to be based around magick. With this, many more plots could come to be placed around spice, as they should be. And it would do so in an organic way.

[Veselka]

This is excellent and spot on with theme and execution. The Tuluki bit is also exquisite and perfectly solves two issues that stand out In my mind always: the purpose of spice and the staying power of House Kurac.

[Greve]

Encourage spice use by reverting the decay code. Spice isn't food. It's literally sifted out of the sand. Why does it rot as fast as a hunk of meat? In terms of its physical properties, it seems more or less like cannabis/hashish. I never understood why it was made to rot inside a RL week.

[Dresan]

I've always argued for refined spice from kurac. A spice that decays slower, and last way way longer.

Spice would be great before big missions or escorts but its not because the damn thing wears out before people even leave the gates. Then the idea becomes, well you can always take more, but how?With your sergeant and maybe a templar watching you.

Its inconvinent.

If it lasted a day or two more people would have a stash of it somewhere. The only thing its currently good for is if you know you are just about to stab someone on the back and you want a small boost. The threat of overdosing and withdraws keeps people from always being spiced out of their minds.

[MeTekillot]

The threat of overdosing and withdraws keeps people from always being spiced out of their minds.

Yes, precisely. I know from personal experience the levels of spice use a particular character can tolerate are quite high, but it can't really be expected for every player to know. That's why I propose my overdose and addiction warnings be added, if neglecting all the rest.

[Greve]

Addiction is insanely punitive, too. It may be different from one spice to the other, but the one time I had a character become addicted, it was essentially the end of that character. His health, stamina and stun dwindled down to 1/1 and stayed there for the next, like... 48 hours of play, which amounts to something like 30 in-game days. Eventually I walked into a one-room fall and died. While it did take quite a bit of spice to become addicted, it's not like it was months of constant use. In fact it was less than a brick. I obtained a brick that wasn't quite full, smoked once per in-game day, and when it was all gone, the character was addicted and became literally unplayable. Couldn't even use the Way due to having a max stun of 1. This was some years ago but I haven't heard of any changes.

[Tranquil]

+1 to all this.

[Veselka]

I would much rather spice addiction be nuanced compared to just SPAMMING you with come down messages, and your stats all dropping.

I really like OP's idea about the culture shock of it being considered 'HIGH CLASS' in Tuluk to be associated with spice/spice physical effects. I really like the idea of becoming Spice Reliant, to the point that you can take a shitload of spice without overdosing as easily, but you CANNOT survive without spice. Sounds like a huge trade off and makes House Kurac all the more interesting to me.

[oggotale]

The way it is right now isn't it that every spice addict eventually gets f-ed over into incompetence EVEN IF they keep up supplies?

Like when your needs reach a point that you'll literally die?

If that's the case - that should be one big change atleast - addicts can be penalised in the absence of spice but for the same of keeping up RP and interactions they should be okay as long as they can keep up the supply.

[Jihelu]

Haven't commented yet but: I like the ideas here

[Iiyola]

On a side note: Welcome back Metekillot.... I haven't seen you in a while

[MeTekillot]

Thank you, that's nice of you. It's good to see you too.

[MeTekillot]

An idea someone proposed in the Discord the other night (I think it was Lotion? Sorry for not remembering):

Instead of futzing about with how much benefit each dose gives, have each level of addiction just give a flat benefit to stats.

Passive addiction (+1 to stat, +10 to derived stat such as stamina, stun, health, etc.)
Dependence (current adiction, +3 to stat, +30 to derived stat)
Lethal dependence (Not implemented, you eventually die without your spice and you can never be cured of it barring possible magickal assistance, +6 to stat, +60 to derived stat)

[Dan]

Encourage spice use by reverting the decay code. Spice isn't food. It's literally sifted out of the sand. Why does it rot as fast as a hunk of meat? In terms of its physical properties, it seems more or less like cannabis/hashish. I never understood why it was made to rot inside a RL week.

All for reversing the spice decay code.

[Jihelu]

There's a weird fine line between making something a commodity worth buying and making it a pain in the ass and not worth it.

If armor doesn't break it becomes something you buy once and never use, if spice never decays you buy it once and perhaps use it very infrequently. Making armor break makes it necessary to buy more, making spice decay supposedly does the same thing.
It seems the decay is too fast though.

Really I think the decay should be lowered and it would be nice if staff would have a discussion over it, perhaps with the players, of what people expect a good delay should be that
A: Emphasizes that you should use your spice
B: Makes it worthwhile to use and not 'I'll buy it and never actually use it'

It would also be nice to know what the actual rates of decay WERE (AKA: The old ones, assuming we are changing them, not necessarily the current ones)

[dumbstruck]

I feel like that is comparing wildly different things, so different  in fact, I have to wonder if you are aware that spice is a consumable like food. I mean, literally, if you ACTUALLY use it, you have to buy more if you want to keep using it. Unlike food however, if people don't like the spice decay code, they can just opt not to deal with spice, not so with food, and it seems like that is what is happening. So why would you need spice to decay to encourage people to buy it when it seems like the people who did buy and use it no longer are specifically because of the decay code? Unless my reading comprehension is lacking, that is?

[Jihelu]

I feel like that is comparing wildly different things, so different  in fact, I have to wonder if you are aware that spice is a consumable like food. I mean, literally, if you ACTUALLY use it, you have to buy more if you want to keep using it. Unlike food however, if people don't like the spice decay code, they can just opt not to deal with spice, not so with food, and it seems like that is what is happening. So why would you need spice to decay to encourage people to buy it when it seems like the people who did buy and use it no longer are specifically because of the decay code? Unless my reading comprehension is lacking, that is?

Armor, and weapons, are consumed when you use them against other people.
Both are 'consumed' in various ways.

The real reading comprehension question is: What are you trying to add to the discussion? My entire point was: The decay is too quick and you're nit picking a comparison.
My point was also: If spice doesn't decay we are vastly decreasing its value and any scarcity. I played before the spice ban and with several nobles, their spice boxes and the spice boxes they kept in the estates were fucking massive and there was very little reason to go out and buy more when you bought a shit load last year. You die, then the next noble finds the box and now never has to buy spice.
It was the same issue with poison and how people had 80 night night poisons sitting in apartments and bags because they never went away. Though the benefit wasn't buffing strength or getting high as fuck it was killing people.

" So why would you need spice to decay to encourage people to buy it when it seems like the people who did buy and use it no longer are specifically because of the decay code?"
Because it isn't about what people really 'want' it's about what makes a fun gameplay experience and balanced one. It's about not having pouches filled with spice that never goes away. The issue is fixed by pulling back the decay timer, not removing it entirely.

[MeTekillot]

as well, I think this idea will significantly contribute towards shorter lived characters acting in the game world instead of holding up the current status quo with people needing to grind up their skills for 2 to 5 days played before they start rocking around.

Yes, you could train up your combat skills or you could just get absolutely jacked to the tits on war and wisdom spice to the point where you're hopelessly addicted to it in exchange for becoming a combat Superman at two days played.

To anyone who might rebutt this with "but then everyone is going to feel like they need to use spice to be competitive"


.... uh, yeah. yes. precisely.

More spice means more smuggling means more plots, more murder, more corruption, more betrayal.

[dumbstruck]

If you say so. It seems to me like you played someone who wanted to sell more spice and couldn't and are blaming it on there being spice left over making it undesirable to buy more spice. If the fix (making it decay even though it makes no sense for it to decay) is also making people not want to buy spice, it doesn't seem like much of a fix does it? Objective question, has spice BUYING gone up at ALL since decay was put in or has it declined significantly?

[Riev]

If you say so. It seems to me like you played someone who wanted to sell more spice and couldn't and are blaming it on there being spice left over making it undesirable to buy more spice. If the fix (making it decay even though it makes no sense for it to decay) is also making people not want to buy spice, it doesn't seem like much of a fix does it? Objective question, has spice BUYING gone up at ALL since decay was put in or has it declined significantly?

Currently spice does decay.
The longer it is in world, the more it decays, unless you have it in a proper container. It may still be 'usable' as it decays but it looks bad.
Once it has gone to oil and hardened, it is no longer of any use.

What I think Jihelu is saying is that the decay time is still too short, and some people purchase and never use it... so it gets 'consumed' without providing any benefit to the purchaser at all.

He is not saying it NEEDS to decay. He's saying it does, and it should, and going back to when it DIDN'T was a bad time.

[sucre]

Maybe instead of decaying and becoming rancid, it could lose potency? It might still give a brief high, but it wouldn't spoil?

I have very little experience with the spice code, admittedly. I don't know if this is already how it works.

[Jihelu]

Maybe instead of decaying and becoming rancid, it could lose potency? It might still give a brief high, but it wouldn't spoil?

I have very little experience with the spice code, admittedly. I don't know if this is already how it works.

As far as I'm aware of this isn't the case, spice goes from perfectly fine to gone with no inbetween stages that I've seen (I had some in my personal box once and it just randomly disappeared one day, and this is in a secure location with a single key that I possess.)

To quote the wisdom of Goldilocks and the three bears.
No decay is too hot
Too much decay is too cold
There's an inbetween somewhere.

[Dar]

I'll admit. The whole concept of spice and illegality of it is so awesome and yet so underused. The reason it's underused is not the danger, or even expense. It's the hassle. It is simply not worth the effort except in rare very situational occasions. And none of those requires you to maintain a habit, or maintain illicit relationships.

Personally, I think it's a wasted opportunity. I think the spice should be altered to be worth the hassle.

Right now. Even as a member of kurac who could get spice dirt cheap, I would find the need to go get it and maintain its freshness too great a hassle/too little gain to keep a war ready spice kit. I would always have Tho for entertainment reasons, but warspices? Didn't bother.  Am I alone in this?

[Narf]

I do think one of the inhibitors to spice use is the fact that it's not common knowledge that posession or use of spice is only supposed to be worthy of a small fine in Allanak.

If you look at the laws board, spice use is at the very bottom of the fineable offenses (meaning it's supposed to be the least severe)

[MeTekillot]

I agree that the perceived negatives towards the layman as regards to spice use do outweigh the positives which themselves are already pretty appreciable.

The problem is that the addiction and overdose mechanics are opaque and you can really only learn about them if you ask somebody else or use your current character as a guinea pig to experiment with it.

As it is now it's more like a potion of +whatever... except potions in DND usually don't run the risk of crippling your stats for however long it takes you to recover or causing you to die horribly from overdose or to get your ass tanned by a Templar who is bored as shit

Thus my initial idea and as well the idea I proposed just a few posts up. Spice should be just as attractive as magick buffs, RANGZ, or a minmaxed character build.

Current sustained use seems to have nothing but penalties and difficulties ( for some reason). This ideas for there to be rewards to balance out those penalties and for there to be more penalties added but paired with even more appreciable rewards, if you decide to take your character down the path of the spice fiend.

and I'm glad that you guys are talking about spice decay code being kind of a pain in the ass but even before we had spice decay code almost nobody used it anyway.

[X-D]

I still have not figured out why spice decay even went in.

Before decay, We would yes, often have pretty large stashes of spice, and yes, at times the PCs would have it for a long time. But it also meant we were not afraid to use it and make sure we were kept stocked up on it. Red Fangs, Salarr ED, Byn, Militia and Legion and other groups. And we would almost always buy in larger amounts. Now, IF you get it at all you tend to only get pinches and run essentually "just in time". First trooper, go get 1 pinch for each person going on this contract, of these spices.

That way, if you do not use it, No big deal if that small amount ends up going bad.

And that is IF they bother at all, which, normally you do not...more hassle then it is worth.

[Tranquil]

Spice code is finnicky and the decay WAS lengthened recently. I've had spice last for upwards of an IRL month in a room, but it has to be in large quantities (thal-knot, brick) and be in spice storing containers.

As far as I know, containers (kits, boxes, special crates) have differing qualities of spice storage, but that's FOIC territory.

Despite all this, I do think pinches and knots should last longer, and ESPECIALLY their effects. Arm is a slow game, and 30 mins of a spice effect is often just not long enough until you get to the actual action. Good luck snorting spice infront of the troupe of templars because it took an hour and a half to prepare, and get to the actual battle.

[mansa]

Spice Decay went in because:

a) Kurac players couldn't find buyers for spice, because everybody had a large stock of spice.
b) Dust Runner players couldn't find buyers for spice, because everybody had a large stock of spice.
c) Guild players couldn't find buyers for spice, because everybody had a large stock of spice.

So, the 'transactional storylines for spice' wasn't being played out in the game, since everybody already had a large collection of spice.


In my opinion about spice decay, I still believe:
(https://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,55334.msg1041349/topicseen.html#msg1041349)

I would like to see the spice decay rates sped up on the larger quantities, rather than linearly increased.   I would like to see the smaller quantities of spice decay at a slower rate than current.

eg.
If we assume it's 4x the quantity in the next tier:

Pinch decays after 24 hours -> 24 hours
Knot decays after 4x24 hours -> 96 hours
Thal-Knot decays after 4x96 hours -> 384 hours
Brick decays after 4x384 hours -> 1536 hours

to change to
Pinch decays after 48 hours -> 48 hours
Knot decays after 4x48 hours -> 192 hours
Thal-Knot decays after 3x192 hours -> 576 hours
Brick decays after 2x576 hours -> 1152 hours

[Hauwke]

Maybe instead of decaying and becoming rancid, it could lose potency? It might still give a brief high, but it wouldn't spoil?

I have very little experience with the spice code, admittedly. I don't know if this is already how it works.

As far as I'm aware of this isn't the case, spice goes from perfectly fine to gone with no inbetween stages that I've seen (I had some in my personal box once and it just randomly disappeared one day, and this is in a secure location with a single key that I possess.)

To quote the wisdom of Goldilocks and the three bears.
No decay is too hot
Too much decay is too cold
There's an inbetween somewhere.

It goes oily, then it goes rockhard then it just dissappears.

[dumbstruck]

Spice Decay went in because:

a) Kurac players couldn't find buyers for spice, because everybody had a large stock of spice.
b) Dust Runner players couldn't find buyers for spice, because everybody had a large stock of spice.
c) Guild players couldn't find buyers for spice, because everybody had a large stock of spice.

So, the 'transactional storylines for spice' wasn't being played out in the game, since everybody already had a large collection of spice.

You assume. Now that decay code is in and actively being blamed for why people aren't using spice, has it actually made anyone buy more spice? Has anyone who plays this game experienced an increase in peoe actually buying spice as a result of the decay code going in? Anyone at all? Could literally one person chime in and tell me how having this item that a lot of people are having an issue with decaying has enriched their game play by decaying? Or how decaying has even had it's intended effect? If even just one person who has been a spice seller in game since it went in can tell me different, I promise I will drop the notion of it being nothong but harmful.

[Jihelu]

Maybe instead of decaying and becoming rancid, it could lose potency? It might still give a brief high, but it wouldn't spoil?

I have very little experience with the spice code, admittedly. I don't know if this is already how it works.

As far as I'm aware of this isn't the case, spice goes from perfectly fine to gone with no inbetween stages that I've seen (I had some in my personal box once and it just randomly disappeared one day, and this is in a secure location with a single key that I possess.)

To quote the wisdom of Goldilocks and the three bears.
No decay is too hot
Too much decay is too cold
There's an inbetween somewhere.

It goes oily, then it goes rockhard then it just dissappears.

Maybe it was so quick because the amount of spice I had, wasn't large pieces, but it poofed on me pretty damn quick

"You assume. Now that decay code is in and actively being blamed for why people aren't using spice, has it actually made anyone buy more spice? Has anyone who plays this game experienced an increase in peoe actually buying spice as a result of the decay code going in? Anyone at all? Could literally one person chime in and tell me how having this item that a lot of people are having an issue with decaying has enriched their game play by decaying? Or how decaying has even had it's intended effect? If even just one person who has been a spice seller in game since it went in can tell me different, I promise I will drop the notion of it being nothong but harmful."

That's why this entire thread exists: Make spice more useful so people are willing to use it, and I actively mentioned they should also decrease the spice decay.
Mansa has said:
1: People won't buy spice because everyone already has spice
You have  said
2: People won't buy spice because it decays so fast
Your only contribution is 'Go back to option 1' when option 1 leads to the exact same thing.
That's why the thread is suggestion we make spice more useful to hopefully change the cycle of 'no one is buying spice'. Do YOU have proof or evidence that people were actively buying spice when it didn't decay? You keep asking for this 'if anyone' stuff, so where's your support for your own argument?

[Aruven]

So the ability to buy a brick of spice with no decay is garbage for a clan that makes its coins off spice trading. There's a couple reasons for this, but consistency is the prevalent one. I'm not running a business I make one sale every two years and survive on.

There are ways to preserve spice in game, don't be a cheapo.

Use spice more.

I love this thread. I just don't want to see people having 40 bricks of spice in a warehouse again (unless it's being distributed that month) as imo that's ultimately bad for the gameworld.

[Jihelu]

So the ability to buy a brick of spice with no decay is garbage for a clan that makes its coins off spice trading. There's a couple reasons for this, but consistency is the prevalent one. I'm not running a business I make one sale every two years and survive on.

There are ways to preserve spice in game, don't be a cheapo.

Use spice more.

I love this thread. I just don't want to see people having 40 bricks of spice in a warehouse again (unless it's being distributed that month) as imo that's ultimately bad for the gameworld.

I'll say it again, I've seen several noble chests full of spice and I don't think we should ever return to the page spam sized containers of spice that never go away. It's silly.

[Bogre]

The reward is not much worth the hassle.

If spice gave you an IRL couple hours benefit, or an in game day, it would be much more appealing. I've posted before that the habit should have certain levels - wherein you can maintain an increased benefit reasonably, so long as your supply is good. But you lose supply, you feel really down for a couple days. Casual use should be pretty good and reasonable to maintain - but the benefits, and resultant crash, are even better if you're slamming like an addict and then drop supply.

Not the system of 'ok I can get a stat boost or two for 30 mins, hope I don't cripple my character with the addiction code'.

Instead something like: Lord Thinksalot Sath smokes methelinoc every morning because it sharpens him for the day (and enjoys the +1, +2 wisdom for it or whatever). If he uses more than that, he's really on it, but then has a few days where he's hungover/hurting before he recovers.



Basically - spice, spice trafficking plots become -way- more important if the coded mechanics behind spice improve. Imagine your Allanaki human hunter that's keeping himself alive with krelez and warspice as he hunts spiders - whats he gonna do if his supply dries out? Or your Jaxa Pah seer who's keeping themself alive by running around hopped up on spice?

[X-D]

Chests full of spice bricks is a problem? I mean, least they were buying it.

Spice use is way down because of decay. I will not bother buying something with a limited time to use. UNLESS it was REALLY cheap or had really cool effects with a really low risk. And though many might not chime in to agree...they play it that way all the same.

You want people to actually use it? and Keep decay the same?

Easy.

#1 lower price to 1/4 what it is now.
#2 Make it 2X as powerful, either in time or affect.
#3 Make addiction 1/10 as painful.

What is amusing to me is I bet that just doing #2 and #3 would have increased spice use without decay and you could have actually raised the price.

[Lotion]

We should remove processed spice and magic and close everywhere but the tablelands so that people get murdered over who gets to break a cactus.

[Patuk]

We should stop shitting up threads with interesting suggestions and do that anywhere else instead.
Let's try to either be productive, or non-critical of other players' posting styles here.



(not deleted so as to be transparent)

[Aruven]

Chests full of spice bricks is a problem? I mean, least they were buying it.

Spice use is way down because of decay. I will not bother buying something with a limited time to use. UNLESS it was REALLY cheap or had really cool effects with a really low risk. And though many might not chime in to agree...they play it that way all the same.

You want people to actually use it? and Keep decay the same?

Easy.

#1 lower price to 1/4 what it is now.
#2 Make it 2X as powerful, either in time or affect.
#3 Make addiction 1/10 as painful.

What is amusing to me is I bet that just doing #2 and #3 would have increased spice use without decay and you could have actually raised the price.

I don't like #1. That leans into the 'chest full of bricks'. Yeah you bought that from an agent of kurac, and then that agent stored and another agent rolled in but everyone had 20 bricks of spice in their chest already so that new agent never made money.

I like #2, and I think #3 can be tweaked a bit for sure.

You don't want to buy it because of decay? Get PK'd a couple of times by someone who does because of the advantages it gives them in combat and that'll change REAL quick for the playerbase. This would mean only #2 needs to be tried first.

In theory, you could play with decay but, i've always been a fan of an in-game economy and that puts some cogs in it imo--That's probably for another thread though, not the specifics of spice use.

[Delirium]

Crossposting from my post in the game improvements thread...

Quadruple the amount of time spice lasts if we must have a decay timer at all. Food I get, but spice shouldn't decay, considering its origins. If the intention was to create more demand, it is backfiring, as right now the rate that spice decays at is actively damaging the trade and decreasing the demand for it. Spice should last multiple IG years when left in a spicebox on a table. Nobody even uses spiceboxes any more, they carry it on their person so that it doesn't go bad while they're logged out because the timer is so punishing. It's such a weird meta. Yes, I know different "sizes" last different times, but even a pinch of spice should last a couple IG years left in a spicebox instead of in your pocket. It's a drug from the silt sea in a desert world. It should not rot easily.

Spice is a PAIN IN THE ASS as currently implemented. Yes, I get that people had decades old stockpiles, but you could make spice last, in game, without logging out with it, for a couple RL years, and still achieve the objective of not having ancient stockpiles. Right now the decay timer is too punishing and the affects wear off too quick.

Want people to go through the right channels? Leave the decay timer as is on grains of spice but make refined spice last a long, long, long long time. I'm talking like 6 rl months for a pinch left in a spicebox on a table.

Fix the overly punishing decay timer and too-short effect timer and you will see a lot more people making use of spice.

[Lotion]

If the value skill allowed people to assess how effective a container is at preserving its contents (there's no way staff coded spice preservation containers and food preservation containers to work differently) methinks it would go a long way.

[Aruven]

If the value skill allowed people to assess how effective a container is at preserving its contents (there's no way staff coded spice preservation containers and food preservation containers to work differently) methinks it would go a long way.

Wow and it might also make value skill valuable 🤣🤣

+1

[Dar]

Chests full of spice bricks is a problem? I mean, least they were buying it.

Spice use is way down because of decay. I will not bother buying something with a limited time to use. UNLESS it was REALLY cheap or had really cool effects with a really low risk. And though many might not chime in to agree...they play it that way all the same.

You want people to actually use it? and Keep decay the same?

Easy.

#1 lower price to 1/4 what it is now.
#2 Make it 2X as powerful, either in time or affect.
#3 Make addiction 1/10 as painful.

What is amusing to me is I bet that just doing #2 and #3 would have increased spice use without decay and you could have actually raised the price.

I don't like #1. That leans into the 'chest full of bricks'. Yeah you bought that from an agent of kurac, and then that agent stored and another agent rolled in but everyone had 20 bricks of spice in their chest already so that new agent never made money.

I like #2, and I think #3 can be tweaked a bit for sure.

You don't want to buy it because of decay? Get PK'd a couple of times by someone who does because of the advantages it gives them in combat and that'll change REAL quick for the playerbase. This would mean only #2 needs to be tried first.

In theory, you could play with decay but, i've always been a fan of an in-game economy and that puts some cogs in it imo--That's probably for another thread though, not the specifics of spice use.

Theoretical defeated by practical.

People have bricks of spice stored? That's because they are not bothering to use it.

Getting PKed by people who do use spice. Sooo ... Are people getting PKed by those who use spice frequently? That hasn't been my observation. Even Crimson Fist itself, with a cheap, easy, and infinite source of spice do not have a tradition of spice use.

You can come up with all kinds of arguments. But the reality ends up being that people consistantly choose not to bother with spice. Even at a fraction of a price. 

 

[MeTekillot]

People use magick because the more you do it, the better it gets, the more rewarding it is.

Same with grebbing. Or crafting. Or training.

Make spice the same. Right now, excess spice use only results in excess penalties. Give benefits in exchange for taking on those penalties.

Sure, +10 strength for 45 minutes is nice if you huff 3 pinches. But then you need to abstain for 8 RL hours to be safe about addiction.

Addiction is absolutely OOCly repulsive. Make it OOCly attractive instead.

[X-D]

I agree with Dar and MeTekillot.

Want to keep decay in (still think it is stupid) Then spice needs to have things that overcome #1 addiction
#2 decay #3 price #4 duration compared to addiction.

The addiction code is kind of a joke BTW...alright, not kind of...it is a total joke.

(edit) Only talking physical addiction mind you.

If you were to do heroin 3 times a day for 6 months...You know how long it takes to get past withdraw/dt etc?

3 days.

Did it for a year?

3 days

5 years?

3days.

(another edit) Yes, I know that 3 times a day for 5 years going cold could mean you die...But if you do not...still 72 hours.

spice? Any of the above could take you more then 100 hours RL time.

[Aruven]

I understand and see the merit of the suggestions.

I tried to put up concerns but they come from a players experience, and admittedly, I don't see spice used often.

I do feel like the solution being favored is:

"Give players a super bomb buff and remove the negative side effects or we won't use it"

As always, I mediate towards roleplay, not code when I can input opinion. I dont know if I want everyone in zalanthas snorting spice because it's cheaper than it is now. I dont know if I want spice to be buffed into insanity because players can consistently brutalize without a penalty that I feel is a LITTLE blown out of proportion.

I wouldn't cry if the changes were made ultimately. It might be epic if they just wholesale made it cheap and removed addiction code. Glad to see a discussion around it.

[Evilone]

I think spice definitely needs something to make it more appealing. Either buff the effects from pinches, not grains, and keep everything else the same, or just extend decay timer. No decay we saw trunks full of spice because it did last forever, but even then my Kuraci Agent never had any trouble selling it, and my Salarri Crew Leader friend was jealous of the coin I could make. There's very little chance the chests of spice would happen now with any decay timer, but in its current state its not so appealing to me as a player. I'd hope a pinch of spice could sit on a table for 6 RL weeks at least, and double that at least when in spice boxes.
Spice should really become a bigger part of the game, and the Guild and Dust Runners are so busy its a struggle to keep up with demand in Allanak.

Armageddon MUD Seasonal Event - The Spice Wars.

Would have been a good time for something like this when Dune came out.