Too Many Gickers? Let's Fix That! (WITHOUT REDUCING THE FUN OF MAGICK)

[X-D]

Funny thing is, there used to be a mage hunter class.

It was called Ranger.

[Gentleboy]

Hmm, I keep thinking about this thread and here's something I would like to ask:

What does magick bring to this game?

Because for me it just brings strife. What good does magick bring to the community? Is this game meant to be played communally or selfishly? Whose story is this? Where does magick lie with the lore (as a whole) because some tribes and areas have different views. Who is magick fun for? Yourself because you get to try a new skill? See secrets only available to gicks because staff has pushed that to be that way? Why do we want to be a magicker? Why does everyone want to be Luke Skywalker and not Han Solo (or CP30)?
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Also, instead of starting off as a gick, here's an idea. There's an option: Would at somepoint would you like to randomly manifest with whatever magick we choose? And it's up to your plot/staff if you manifest. Maybe you're all waiting to bleet me out with shofars that this idea is horrible and your stomachs are curdling, but, I always kind of liked that with magick. The uncontrollable aspects of it. The organic mystical nature. The unobtainable and unexplainable. Truly horrible, horrific, but hey, you had an option. And maybe you never will manifest.

[Pariah]

...
Another option would be to create a witcher class - a mundane that specializes in hunting mages.

Fuck...YES.  This would be god damn awesome if there was a legit mage hunting class.  Maybe something with resistance to magick (Not a dwarf).

[Pariah]

To add something I feel is meaningful to the conversation other than fanboying over the idea of a mage hunter class...

I think Mages are fun as shit to play, however, I find their use to be very PVP'y only.

Why? Well because all the useful shit a mage can do is only used by Templars and a handful of organizations in the world.  Due to the stigma of mages and the medieval logic of, A witch touched me, and my wife miscarried, so therefor it's the witch's touch that killed my unborn Amos, if you find someone who uses the Vivaduan to create water or heal their wounds, they are not playing by docs.  Because "witches".

However, Almost every class of witch I've played has some sort of, "Make it easy as shit to kill folks" magic spell(s).

If witches had more utility that could be used for the aid of others, that wasn't stigmatized, or possibly wasn't known to be magic related, then it would be a more useful class for others.

For example, "Saw a Rukkian had a spell that could increase the forage chances of gems in a location due to their ties to the earth." or a viv could create watering holes through time and effort that lasted a while.

A whiran could create rooms with refreshing winds and increased the regeneration of those who rested there, things that were palpable but could be explained possibly IC as, "Man the winds feel great here right now, Tek must be showing us some love to allow this comforting wind, I'm catching my breath much faster now."

Or "This is a hotspot for shiny rocks, the Kadians are gonna pay me well for all these rocks."

So essentially it would be nice if Mages had world altering power, that didn't end up just being character ending power.  Perhaps make mages of the same type work together to create a permanent oasis, and something that required upkeep occasionally.

But not make it just pop in and out of existence like Magick.  Be more gradual and measured.

I dunno, rough ass idea, but that would make mages better for more than PKing folks.

[Gentleboy]

To add something I feel is meaningful to the conversation other than fanboying over the idea of a mage hunter class...

I think Mages are fun as shit to play, however, I find their use to be very PVP'y only.

Why? Well because all the useful shit a mage can do is only used by Templars and a handful of organizations in the world.  Due to the stigma of mages and the medieval logic of, A witch touched me, and my wife miscarried, so therefor it's the witch's touch that killed my unborn Amos, if you find someone who uses the Vivaduan to create water or heal their wounds, they are not playing by docs.  Because "witches".

However, Almost every class of witch I've played has some sort of, "Make it easy as shit to kill folks" magic spell(s).

If witches had more utility that could be used for the aid of others, that wasn't stigmatized, or possibly wasn't known to be magic related, then it would be a more useful class for others.

For example, "Saw a Rukkian had a spell that could increase the forage chances of gems in a location due to their ties to the earth." or a viv could create watering holes through time and effort that lasted a while.

A whiran could create rooms with refreshing winds and increased the regeneration of those who rested there, things that were palpable but could be explained possibly IC as, "Man the winds feel great here right now, Tek must be showing us some love to allow this comforting wind, I'm catching my breath much faster now."

Or "This is a hotspot for shiny rocks, the Kadians are gonna pay me well for all these rocks."

So essentially it would be nice if Mages had world altering power, that didn't end up just being character ending power.  Perhaps make mages of the same type work together to create a permanent oasis, and something that required upkeep occasionally.

But not make it just pop in and out of existence like Magick.  Be more gradual and measured.

I dunno, rough ass idea, but that would make mages better for more than PKing folks.

Them mages got mad utility already, depending on the one you choose.

What's the downside? This is Arm. Amazing powers should have amazing consequences. I don't see many already for gicks besides death for being a secret gick and running away.

[Lotion]

I've considered playing a witch Hunter before. The problem of this is that the cure to witching is death. So a witch Hunter would literally be a character that is highly focused on PK.

A successful witch Hunter is liable to kill half the games playerbase over a rl year of success. Is that really what we want?

oh fuck i gotta play a witch hunter

[Fernandezj]

A successful witch Hunter is liable to kill half the games playerbase over a rl year of success. Is that really what we want?

Yes.

However, an average warrior takes X number of days to get to viability, let alone "mage-slaying". A mage takes half that to be fully branched. Its imbalance at all levels.

[Pariah]

A successful witch Hunter is liable to kill half the games playerbase over a rl year of success. Is that really what we want?

Yes.

However, an average warrior takes X number of days to get to viability, let alone "mage-slaying". A mage takes half that to be fully branched. Its imbalance at all levels.

Not to mention that a-REDACTED-

We're not going to be discussing the spell list, or what the spells can and cannot do, in this thread. -Hestia

Fair enough, sorry about that, always a hard subject to discuss without going to deep, apparently I did.

[Tranquil]

My very humble (unneeded) opinion once more:

If the magick subguilds are staying, perhaps empower mundanes the same way. Add special mundane subguilds that are also higher karma. This way, the magick's appealing, and now the mundanes will be equally appealing.

I myself, having played magick little and mostly mundanes, have hardly ever used my karma on anything but the little magick I've actually played.

Something like a witchhunter would be a good example, as mentioned above. Make it have resistance to magick. Higher barrier. 2 Karma. Stuff like that.. maybe something like 'Veteran', where you start with jman/advanced weapon skills. *shrug

Regardless, in conclusion: Add some different usages for karma that don't require a whole spec app, a different race, or magic.

[Dar]

Spend cgp on higher starting skills. Have a guild with stealth in city/wild. Poisoning, skinning, stealth, sap, and certain range skills.  Enough to PK just about anything in the wild.

[SpyGuy]

There probably is a certain amount of opportunity cost associated with why people pick mage subguilds.  Why not spend the karma to create a fun character when you have it?  It's always tempting to use the karma you have.

I feel an automated process or one that didn't require wasting a special app to boost mundane skills using karma or even just add an extra skill outside the class/subclass would definitely have appeal and open up concepts people want to play but don't want to grind for.  The combat grind does get tiresome.

[Strongheart]

There probably is a certain amount of opportunity cost associated with why people pick mage subguilds.  Why not spend the karma to create a fun character when you have it?  It's always tempting to use the karma you have.

I feel an automated process or one that didn't require wasting a special app to boost mundane skills using karma or even just add an extra skill outside the class/subclass would definitely have appeal and open up concepts people want to play but don't want to grind for.  The combat grind does get tiresome.

Very true.

[Dan]

A system to automate use of karma for additional 'perks' and/or skill bumps would drastically lower the magicker usage I would imagine.

While apping your character, at the end, an option to utilize your karma for skill bumps (kept in-line with current limitations).

Then you could have a few perks that mundanes would find useful for a karma point. A set of skills that aren't game-breaking, languages that you'd not normally have, raising the skill-cap of current skills (advanced ride to master cap, advanced scan to master scan, advanced climb to master climb, etc.).

I think finding other ways to use karma would lower the number of apps using karma for magickers. Just my take.

[Inks]

Tuluk opening: Well, that'll do it.

[Veselka]

Tuluk opening: Well, that'll do it.

Tuluk being around definitely makes it harder for rogue magickers to have happy fun times.

[Narf]

Tuluk opening: Well, that'll do it.

Tuluk being around definitely makes it harder for rogue magickers to have happy fun times.

Yeah, this might balance out the overall game at least, if not specific areas.

[creeper386]

As someone with a little karma and barely plays magikers. I'd love for a way to spend karma in other ways, but I think the most appealing ways is options for other skills, subguilds or higher caps.


There is some issue in regard to we maybe have a LOT of subguilds already though.

[X-D]

Tuluk Opening will help, While yes I planned on next PC to be mundane, Now I will have a place to create him and be away from filthy mages.

[Patuk]

Yeah. As long as there aren't whirans playing 'kill the mundane' again, this should be a good one.

[stoicreader]

I really like the idea of making karma options available for skill bumps. This way people will spend Karma in novel ways not limited to being a gemmer.

The grind for combat characters is crazy. If there was a skill bump for offensive/defensive: 2 karma.
Or 3 karma for Offensive/Defensive boost plus weapon skill of choice.
Or 2 karma for higher stats that are less random.

Like. Give these boosts to people who have staff trust so that they don't need to grind forever in the Byn. Just a thought.

[X-D]

Honestly, Many older players would spend karma if it was across the board bumps to bypass the grind, Oh, I can spend all my karma to start as a 10 day PC....DONE. Well, 15 day for 3 karma. Basically use karma to start as a sponsered role without the role.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Yeah ... I could really get behind spending karma on erasing some of the mundane grind. So behind this ...

[Fenneko]

So has anyone in this thread who enjoys magickers actually had their say that there IS oppression of magickers, left and right, top to bottom, and in a pervasive way that being magickers is the biggest test of patience and dedication to a setting that I've ever roleplayed? It is as close to slavery RP as one can get in this game, and learning the learned helplessness and having characters die in droves without an option to object is something I've seen again and again and again as gemmed, and it's almost like people in this thread just haven't seen all that RP that goes on.

The above is mostly true for gemmed, where I have to keep giving kudos left and right because I get to enjoy scenes of torture or disgrace and shame and or outright denial of humanity, and it's like nobody's even paying attention.

The problem probably is moreso that the RP that is out there portraying mages in the way they ought to be played is so separated as is from the RP of the mundane side that all that is seen is when they do intersect, which often may seem like a power imbalance between magick and mundane, but the experience from the (gemmed) side at least is extremely difficult to RP and the idea of a "light degree" of social stigma is way off.

[Veselka]

Tuluk reopening so I don't care about this thread concept any more.

[Krath]

Tuluk reopening so I don't care about this thread concept any more.

LOL. Best Comment To Date.