Observations of a returning player.

[Pariah]

So without getting ooc, I have noticed that since my return back to the game, that finding interaction is difficult, moreso than I seem to remember.

Now I totally get that there are potentially three or four "hubs" of RP for folks, depending on if you're based in Allanak, Luirs, Storm or Whatever Tuluk's village is called again.

So when you do the math of say 30-40 people on, that's pretty scarce chance of running into someone when there are a few folks that just won't have a reason to interact with you, say Templars and Nobles.

So I am curious if there is any more chance to get RP outta the game other than joining a clan or just randomly running across someone.

Also I wonder if it's been a little dead due to the fact there is a RPT coming up and people are squirreled away with clans and whatnot in non public areas.

So those observations being stated, are there any best practices for finding folks to spend the night with and RP?

My characters tend to be busy during the day, hunting, riding, shooting things with slingshots, getting nearly eaten, or beat to death by their clanmates, so I tend to wander the city at night, looking around and have yet to find much interaction at the normal spots in Allanak at least.

I could be totally wrong and just remembering wrong, but I used to always run into folks at one of the bars in Allanak daily at night, but seem to be coming up empty lately so I figured I'd ask if the dynamic has changed in the game of do stuff in the daytime, socialize in the night?

Any perspective would be appreciated.

[Fernandezj]

It has been closer to ~25 (average) over the past month or so and spread out between too many locations.
40 is only about an hour a day (peak), and then its usually around 20 to 25 throughout the rest of the time, with the past couple weeks there has been a dramatic drop off for whatever reason (maybe the RPT).

If you consider 25 at a given moment spread across nearly as many "play areas", then you will have trouble finding people if you're not a part of them.

Right now, just considering groups that have active players there is:


The Big 2:
Allanak
  | Byn
  | Militia
  | Rinth
  | Nobles and their Ilk
  | Templars and their ilk
  | Magickers
  | Minor Merchant Houses
  | Other/Unaffiliated
Luirs
  | Garrison
  | Others

The Small 2:
Red Storm
Morins

Merchant Houses
| Kadius
| Kurac
| Salarr

Desert Elves
| Sun Runners
| Two Moons

Tribal Humans
| Arabet
| Al'Seik

And then anyone else in-between.

Your best bet for guaranteed interaction is a group, or some sort of traveler. You can sit in the Gaj for a long time, but there are just too many affiliated people out doing their own thing to get that same sorta old school "tavern sitting"/"random encouter" RP reliably (that many people equate with the old times, it seems).

Ive sat in both the Storm in Luirs and the Gaj in Allanak for long stretches of time with 30 people online and not seen another PC.

[SpyGuy]

Few things:

Summer tends to have a dip in player count at peak.  Especially this year with things finally opening up in North America with vaccines and such that could add to the relatively low numbers.  A few months back it was busier.  Oddly enough I've found US daytimes (so European players and those at work or weirdos like me playing late night in off time zones) still seem pretty healthy compared to the usual.

Tavern sitting is no longer all that common, particularly in Allanak.  I'm sure there are a few reasons for this.  I've always had better luck organizing meeting someone at a tavern and then people tend to show up as you invite them or they see it's busy.  But this is definitely a hurdle before you've a list of people to contact.

Clans are a better way to find interaction in Allanak.  Don't even necessarily need to join the clan, just get friendly with people in it as an independent and that might help.

Luir's tends to be better to find people easily because there is only one tavern and only two other locations people usually congregate in there (all of which are very close to each other).  But Luir's goes through cycles of activity and right now it may be somewhat empty.  I often see at least one person in the Storm's End if I tavern sit there on an IC evening.  But again, Luir's population might be low right now.

The major RPT coming up might be leading to some people playing it safe or handling things irl so they'll have more time to play during the RPT.


These are mostly guesses but you're not wrong that peak has been slow of late and closer to 30ish than the sustained 40-50 we were at a few months ago.

[Riev]

Your best bet for guaranteed interaction is a group, or some sort of traveler. You can sit in the Gaj for a long time, but there are just too many affiliated people out doing their own thing to get that same sorta old school "tavern sitting"/"random encouter" RP reliably (that many people equate with the old times, it seems).

Ive sat in both the Storm in Luirs and the Gaj in Allanak for long stretches of time with 30 people online and not seen another PC.

I think this is important, because I fall into this all the time. I'm one of the "old school" people who remembers when you do your job in the IC morning, and you socialize/tavern hop in the evening, because its dangerous to be on the streets at night.

All other things aside, there are simply less people sitting at taverns, which used to be the social hubs. I used to sit, hidden, at the Pillar outside the Gaj to see if ANYONE was around, and it was rare to see people. Affiliated people are in their compounds, Bynners are AFK/Sleeping through the night until training, indies have their own apartments to sleep in, etc etc.

Unless you "be the change" and start sitting in taverns advertising decent-paying work that leads to interesting plots, I find few people want to 'socialize' unless it benefits them directly. It may be best to, if you want interaction, seek out the local clan leads, or just reach out to someone and say "Hey you got any work?"

[triste]

I'm one of the "old school" people who remembers when you do your job in the IC morning, and you socialize/tavern hop in the evening, because its dangerous to be on the streets at night.

Because it's dangerous to be on the streets at night, LMFAO.

Maybe tavern PKs are a factor? A year or two ago I was playing a leadership PC in a Gaj (as a leader of a clan where it was totally IC for me to be in the Gaj) and randomly got PKed. Chilling at a table one second, knife in the back the next.  It was one of the most shocking and dumb things I had experienced on this game. The streets are safer? Big nope. I think I've heard of MORE people getting attacked and PKed in taverns than on the street recently.

I sort of "got my revenge" for the Guinness Book of World Records lamest PK by attacking someone in the Gaj as a different character later, with IC motivations of course. It was a test of sorts. I faced no repercussions. Taverns are just PvP zones y'all, ^{_{(similar to clubs in Las Vegas IRL).}}

Unless you "be the change" and start sitting in taverns.. "

Despite being backstabbed at a tavern in an epically tacky way, I recognize the utility of taverns and continue to "be the change" and allow my characters to sit at taverns even if I know it means willingly putting a huge target on your back.

[valeria]

Since coming back to the game in late February, my somewhat limited experience with taverns has been the same as it has been for me for years.  If I sit in a tavern, people will join me, but if I fly by the taverns looking, there's no one in there.  I don't think it's a player count issue, because players at any given time don't spread out around the known.  People tend to play in areas where there are other people playing at the same time, whether that's Allanak being ideal or peak play, Red Storm being the it place at 2 am, or Luirs being where you'll get good interaction if you're a mid-day player < just examples.

I think it has less to do with player counts by area and more to to do with tavern culture and nostalgia glasses about how taverns used to be.  The last time I had a character where I distinctly recall being able to swing by a tavern and have people in it was 2015.  I noticed an even sharper dropoff in tavern-sitting during the Random Dwarf PK Year, aka 2018.  In 2020, I had an experience with pickpockets where I closed my cloak multiple times while sitting an evening at the Gaj, and they'd just open it again, regardless of my emote that I had a hand over my pocket.  Alas, it's hard to report someone you can't see for being a twink, and it gets really old, real fast.

I don't know that this is something that can be addressed by being the change.  I used to be one of the people who was happy to sit alone in a tavern until people showed up.  But if it's an OOC annoyance to hang out in taverns, then I'm probably not going to sit alone in a tavern waiting for chance interaction.

Should I let my OOC annoyance bleed over into my characters?  Probably not.  But this is supposed to be a game, something I do with my recreation time, so I'm not going to do something in it that isn't fun for me.

[Patuk]

My previous two characters died because as it turns out, being in public means you are easily found. I am not going to sequester myself away the way some others seem to do, but I can see how being available in your local inn tends to lower your lifespan.

[Armaddict]

In allanak, a lot of it is because of changes in clan structure.  Noble aides, elite house guards, and all those affiliated actually kind of did their job by being openly available and observant of public spaces.  There's no longer any clan that really benefits that much from that.  Even the Arm has a hard time with it.  Nobles are rarely seen.  Independents are not as dependent on clanned characters and will often sequester themselves to their apartments or the wilds to do their own mini-progression games.  The Way was made fantastically easy to be more newbie-friendly, meaning that there's a lot less of a bonus for being face-to-face.

Then you have the kind of snarky replies here.  I died once in a tavern and so I don't seek the interactions anymore.  This isn't actually very true, because I'm 99% certain that if clan structure returned to the way it was, and social structures were played the way old players were used to, then the taverns would still be the place to go to either socialize or get invisible progress bars filled.

As is, there is little form or function to them.  Those functions that led to busy taverns were collateral damage to other efforts in player consolidation and ease-of-management.

[Maso]

I can't speak to peaky peak, because I basically never see it. But I just do not seem to be having the same experience. Fairly regularly, across my last few characters, in various locales.. I see players in taverns and get plenty of interaction that way.

If you expect to just swing past once an IC day for someone else to be idling there just waiting for you to show up so they can give you a good time, perhaps not. But if you're bored and looking for interaction yourself.. then yeah, go and sit down. As for pickpockets, they are just looking for interaction too, do your duty to your fellow players and just leave your dang cloak open. :p

As someone else intimated, different parts of the world have different levels of activity at certain times of the day. The RPT stuff going on at the moment has shifted some of this around. The game is.. like.. HAPPENING.. there is.. STUFF going down.. but you may need to dig around a little bit more adventurously to find the stuff in your play hours.

[Barsook]

I thought the tavern PK's/pickpocketing problem got solved, at least in Allanak.

It's the true that the meta did shift to more private sectors of the game world and it's in a way seems to be tied to the sneaky sneaks. At least to me.

[number13]

I've given up on looking for RP in an RP game. It's too much of a chore.

On one hand, the player base is too small for the number of locations open. On the other hand, if someone's favorite location or clan gets closed, they might quit anyway. It's a death spiral in need of a reset. The limit on OOC communication means spies can be effective in game, and surprises can happen. It also means it can be difficult or impossible to talk to a particular player when you need to in order to advance a plot.

There are other factors pushing me away from playing -- the wide discrepancy between a skilled character and a new character is too punishing to risk-takers. The stat lottery means that a concept can be killed in the first 10 minutes of play by a bad roll. And many of the delay timers, be it crafting or regeneration, are set up for a slower style of play that can make brief appearances in the game seem pointless.

But the big thing is it shouldn't be difficult to find interaction in an RP game.

[triste]

The limit on OOC communication means spies can be effective in game, and surprises can happen. It also means it can be difficult or impossible to talk to a particular player when you need to in order to advance a plot.

This is exactly why I have been asking for a means to Way or send messages to people when they are offline. I know it would be a PITA to implement, but it would fully address this problem, which you are correct, is becoming more of a problem day by day.

And sadly, there are TONS of players who cheat and metagame constantly to "fix this problem themselves," and the disproportionate advantage they possess... again only drives more people to quit.

I would LOVE it if staff would try to implement this solution (offline way messages) to solve this problem (coordinating RP asynchronously in game). I would LOVE it if someone could propose even another solution to this besides the one I am proposing, but I haven't heard any other good ideas yet.

We can endlessly identify problems, and/or we can start to fix them.

[Brokkr]

I thought the tavern PK's/pickpocketing problem got solved, at least in Allanak.

It's the true that the meta did shift to more private sectors of the game world and it's in a way seems to be tied to the sneaky sneaks. At least to me.

It is a balancing act that works out over time.  There was sort of an uproar about the NPC that would kill sneakers it saw in the Gaj at night, so apparently being safe isn't exactly what folks want.

[mansa]

I thought the tavern PK's/pickpocketing problem got solved, at least in Allanak.

It's the true that the meta did shift to more private sectors of the game world and it's in a way seems to be tied to the sneaky sneaks. At least to me.

It is a balancing act that works out over time.  There was sort of an uproar about the NPC that would kill sneakers it saw in the Gaj at night, so apparently being safe isn't exactly what folks want.

As an aside to this comment,

I believe the uproar was that an npc attacked and killed a player's character with no warning, nor no attempt to give the player a chance to understand that what they were doing was murder-worthy, or to react accordingly.

This NPC could totally exist and do it's job as long as it does:
a) gives a warning
b) responds accordingly so the player isn't immediately put into wanted-status and in combat, and allow further NPC soldiers to assist the npc and gank in 1 round of combat.
c) maybe "poke" the sneaky/hidden characters and force them out of hidden status?
d) any other thing that says to the players of these characters - there are NPCs and vNPCs in this area that are watching for these activities, and maybe you should be careful.

I believe everybody will say the intent was good, wanted, and liked, but the literal execution of the script was the problem.

[Patuk]

I thought the tavern PK's/pickpocketing problem got solved, at least in Allanak.

It's the true that the meta did shift to more private sectors of the game world and it's in a way seems to be tied to the sneaky sneaks. At least to me.

It is a balancing act that works out over time.  There was sort of an uproar about the NPC that would kill sneakers it saw in the Gaj at night, so apparently being safe isn't exactly what folks want.

Did anyone tell you this, did you ask anyone, or are you basing this off other matters?

[Pariah]

The limit on OOC communication means spies can be effective in game, and surprises can happen. It also means it can be difficult or impossible to talk to a particular player when you need to in order to advance a plot.

This is exactly why I have been asking for a means to Way or send messages to people when they are offline. I know it would be a PITA to implement, but it would fully address this problem, which you are correct, is becoming more of a problem day by day.

And sadly, there are TONS of players who cheat and metagame constantly to "fix this problem themselves," and the disproportionate advantage they possess... again only drives more people to quit.

I would LOVE it if staff would try to implement this solution (offline way messages) to solve this problem (coordinating RP asynchronously in game). I would LOVE it if someone could propose even another solution to this besides the one I am proposing, but I haven't heard any other good ideas yet.

We can endlessly identify problems, and/or we can start to fix them.

Perhaps a type of ooc/ic mail system in the first login menu?

That way you could leave small messages for player of Amos and then when they log in they would see it?

[triste]

That's the idea! And if you don't like it, logging off with barrier on can disable it.

I feel like we'd see so many clans and plots organically form with a feature like this! It'd help integrate off peakers into plots and all sorts of cool stuff.

I was thinking long and hard about the worst possible ramification of this, besides staff effort, and all I could think of is it would potentially make aides more useless, but weren't they already? (jk, <3)

[BOXCARS]

I hedged my expectations to fit the current conditions.

I generally blunder around now doing my own thing until I happen upon someone and then I find some excuse to begin interacting with them. Unless I'm busy or they're busy, it tends to work more often than not. Maybe you won't see someone in the tavern every night, but if you don't expect anything than everything that comes your way is a pleasant surprise.

Personally I circumvent the conditions by just being around when I'm around. Seeking people out if necessary and otherwise occupying my idle time with things that only interest me unless someone else happens to take some interest. That's the secret Cap, the less people you have to unconditionally rely on (faction leaders and superiors, specific traders/crafters, w/e) the less your time is spent worrying about the presence or lack thereof of other people and just enjoying what actually is around.

A particularly zen and maybe even passive method of play? Maybe. I rarely fail to find something to do now though, and I usually enjoy whatever it is I've decided on. You be the judge on if that works for you or not. Not everyone has to patience to loaf around typing directions and emoting/thinking/feeling things to their self.

[Delirium]

Make your own fun and people will find you.

[SpyGuy]

Make your own fun and people will find you.

This.  The interaction is out there.  Might take longer to find with the change in tavern sitting culture but it's there.  Also playing PCs who are easy to interact with (ie not a breed, elf or gick) helps.

[number13]

The interaction is out there. I'm not going to work to find it.

I really, really miss Arm circa 2010, but it's probably time for me to understand that game is in the past, and not coming back.

[SpyGuy]

The interaction is out there. I'm not going to work to find it.

I really, really miss Arm circa 2010, but it's probably time for me to understand that game is in the past, and not coming back.

For what it's worth I took a break from 2012 to about a year ago.  Things have changed.  This year has been one of if not my favorite playing the game though.  This is just my personal experience and perhaps I've been lucky.  Take that for what it's worth and best to you.  If Arm isn't fun for you anymore then it's not worth it to play for you, I get it.

[Furious George]

The interaction is out there. I'm not going to work to find it.

I really, really miss Arm circa 2010, but it's probably time for me to understand that game is in the past, and not coming back.

Welcome to being a Veteran with some time-investment under your belt.  Every generation will always be under the impression that when they started, you know, when everything was fresh, new, interesting and nonstop surprises being revealed, was -the best- time to have played and cannot ever be touched again. 

A lot of that harkening back to fond memories are because of that newness, so the challenge becomes finding new ways to spark your interest and reinvigorate that love.  It sometimes requires taking time off, it sometimes requires breaking  your play patterns and doing something you wouldn't normally do, or it can come from a random throwaway character that suddenly, for no real reason at all, is immersed and neck deep in plot and drama.  You know the guy, the guy you threw a flat 4 line description on so you could try a guild/sub combo out, who rolled stats that made your eyeroll, who found a corpse in the sand....

It's always going to be what you make of it.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I've got to say that I have had a lot of fun this past year. I had been missing for a while myself, but the game is doing real well in certain areas. Yes it's a little smaller than it used to be, but I think things are happening, and we're definitely getting new players too, we just need to retain them. I really wouldn't worry about it a lot.

I think about the good old days to, but in the end I end up finding a million things to like about now. You at about 10 or 15 more players per hour to this game and it's better than it used to be. But of course, when players log in and don't see anybody in the game and then log out, the next person does the same thing and so does the next person and the next person oh, and we have this recurring theme of discouragement because nobody is willing to be the person who stays in who sits in the tavern Etc.

Ultimately, if you're not having fun, don't play. Or play something else. Don't expect everything to be the same, particularly as it used to be, but do realize there are some cool things in the game right now. Of course I want to see you old vets in the Sands again oh, but not if it means you're not having fun.

[Malken]

This is what I'm finding out about myself:

I LOVE talking about the game.

I LOVE reading about the game.

I LOVE learning about what's going on in the game.

I LOVE thinking about the game and what I could play next.

I just don't really enjoy playing it that much anymore, no matter how often I try to play it again or where I play it.

I think making a character that could go and read the IC boards is enough for me at the moment.