Bring back full magickers maybe, like as a joke

[Yam]

But actually not as a joke. It's been five years since full mage subguilds were removed and Elkrosians and Drovians were [REDACTED] and had their spells sold to the highest bidder or put into a lockbox somewhere. They were both kinda busted and mages always had their issues, but that was also kind of why they were interesting and fun. In moderated doses. Subguilds are cool too, but there's probably room for both. Or maybe there isn't. We cannot empircally know unless we do a trial, and it feels like it's probably been long enough to give it a go. What's the worst that could happen here?

Also it's been, oh god, over 15 years since Gin and Quick terrorized the playerbase causing psionicists to get some extreme adjusting still and over a decade since the Dragonthrall saga and the spate of fully-empowered psionicists, sorcerors, nilazi et al turned the game into World War Hogwarts for a while which ensued in those guilds (and other stuff) got adjusted into the substrata. We should see if players are still unable to handle the full power both braingod and nilazime on their side or if there is room for the Original Flavor mindworms now.

How has the magick/unknown/power level been lately? Is there too much crazy shit, not enough? Would it be kind of cool to make the old full guilds open for a week or two for shits and giggles?

Maybe this isn't the right year, but maybe another 5 years from now. Or next plaguetimes. Whichever comes first.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Or, on second thought, make all magickers special app with a hard cap. Mundane storylines are where the fun's had.

I'm joking. Sort of.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

No ... really? Leave it as is, with the chance that a well-played, long-lived magicker could attain a reclass to full, old-school elementalist.

[Maso]

with the chance that a well-played, long-lived magicker could attain a reclass to full, old-school elementalist.

That would be really cool.

[Inks]

No whirans pls. Pls...no whirans.

[Maso]

No whirans pls. Pls...no whirans.

What? But they're so lovely and cuddly? 

[Hauwke]

No whirans pls. Pls...no whirans.

What? But they're so lovely and cuddly? 

I think the issue is not with Whirans so much as it is people using spells as an I win button. If they have access to certain spells, people use them to instantly "win" in ways that really shouldn't be happening. Not because it makes no IC sense to do it that way, but because there is absolutely 0 defense to an enormous pile of people typing kill dude.

[X-D]

I am all for gaining full...it is below the old desire to gain "elemental" But something worth while to shoot for that is not as over powered as "elemental" Or sorc.

So yeah, two sids and leaving out the bad shit I feel.

[Fernandezj]

No whirans pls. Pls...no whirans.

What? But they're so lovely and cuddly? 

I think the issue is not with Whirans so much as it is people using spells as an I win button. If they have access to certain spells, people use them to instantly "win" in ways that really shouldn't be happening. Not because it makes no IC sense to do it that way, but because there is absolutely 0 defense to an enormous pile of people typing kill dude.

No, whirans require karma and karma-enhanced players wouldn't do that, or there'd be repercussions.

[Khorm]

No whirans pls. Pls...no whirans.

What? But they're so lovely and cuddly? 

I think the issue is not with Whirans so much as it is people using spells as an I win button. If they have access to certain spells, people use them to instantly "win" in ways that really shouldn't be happening. Not because it makes no IC sense to do it that way, but because there is absolutely 0 defense to an enormous pile of people typing kill dude.

No, whirans require karma and karma-enhanced players wouldn't do that, or there'd be repercussions.

as a player that's got maximum karma-enhancement, i don't even cast spells as a magicker because as we all know - code != rp and our karma champions should be focusing on roleplay and setting the example for our less privileged users.

[Malken]

The fastest way to get karma is to never use the code. Armageddon's code is a trap to keep you at 0 karma.

Just kill your enemies with the "think" command like the vets do!

[Riev]

No whirans pls. Pls...no whirans.

What? But they're so lovely and cuddly? 

I think the issue is not with Whirans so much as it is people using spells as an I win button. If they have access to certain spells, people use them to instantly "win" in ways that really shouldn't be happening. Not because it makes no IC sense to do it that way, but because there is absolutely 0 defense to an enormous pile of people typing kill dude.

No, whirans require karma and karma-enhanced players wouldn't do that, or there'd be repercussions.

You sweet summer child.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Be good, people.

*Eyes this thread suspiciously.*

[Wedi]

You guys and gals use think to kill folks? I use wish.

[Hauwke]

You guys are getting commands?

[Brytta Léofa]

Whirans became somewhat less god-mode in like 2014. Although they can be very powerful, I'm not sure they're quite as big a problem as some folks remember.

To Yam's point...I'm intrigued. Strawman proposal: main class elementalists that get all the spells of that element's subguilds. Karma-gated at the max karma of that element's subguilds (2 for Ruk/Viv, 3 for the others). If you want to really limit it, require a special app (as for Sorc subguild and Psionicist main guild). With the extended subguilds, which are all available to anybody with mage karma in the first place, you can still make a pretty darn well-rounded character in terms of skills.

I am all for gaining full...it is below the old desire to gain "elemental" But something worth while to shoot for that is not as over powered as "elemental" Or sorc.

I'm also interested in other long-game ideas for elementalist progression. For instance: becoming an elemental, where this is changed to mean something that is cool but not Terribly OP. (I mean...ten years ago during the End of the World we probably would have called a Rukkian with backstab gamebreaking, so...this is a shifting goalpost.)

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

If elemental came to mean something like, a perma stone-skin, or perma flaming fists, or perma night-vision - a spell, basically, that is just inherent to you now, I think that would be enough. Make it something that fits the character, that staff works with you to devise - so that everybody was in agreement.

Embodying a single skill should be pretty elemental.

[X-D]

An perm non-spell tie to element would be pretty cool and not the same for everybody.

[Harmless]

I appreciate the current magicker subguilds. The staff seem to have added enough branchable spells that you can end up with a healthy variety and having the breadth of new classes is pretty great. I was very upset at how anemic the magicker subguilds were at first but staff took feedback from us and improved it.

I wouldn't mind having the old mainguild magicker option and I might pick it, but I might not pick them and even prefer the new magick subguilds over them. I wouldn't have said that three years ago.

[Dakota]

I think magick never had it so good. The fact they are hard to sniff and get access to so many skills -and- skilling up (learning) spells hasn't been tweaked to be as brutally grindy as learning weapons...

Means compare to the 'ol days', magickers in arm have it made. There no Lith Templars providing a check / balance in the north or SLK hunting them all down (least playable). Even with the lost spells / smaller tree / etc. Seems kinda the best time in arm in the past 10 years to play a witch... lotta power. Lotta options. Little (too few IMO) counter balance.

That said it -would- be a neat path for them to be able to achieve 'full elemental'.

[Jihelu]

I don't play this game anymore but imma keep it real. Back when full mages were a thing playing one felt like ass to me. It was like playing a merchant but instead of grinding knife making all day to get sword making I was grinding fireball to get better fireball, and I was dog shit useless at everything unless I was cheesing through it with magic.
At least with the current system I can do something while casting spells. My scout Krathis was actually fun. The full guild I made once was not.

[Patuk]

Player options good. Lack of options bad. We still have gemmed even today, so full magickers existing doesn't even 'dilute' anything, whatever that means. I'd support the classes returning also.

[th3kaiser]

I'm going to be completely honest here. New mages are probably a bit stronger codedly (in most cases), but the removal of full magickers started my slow slide to stop playing. I've thought about this quite a bit and it's all down to the time investment. Full guild magickers let me roll up a PC, do a moderate amount of spell training and be able to jump into the game with a useful playable PC.

I just don't have the time to grind out mundane skillset after mundane skillset anymore. And yes, I know lots of you enjoy playing social PCs who don't use many skills and the like, but I do not.

[Narf]

I'm going to be completely honest here. New mages are probably a bit stronger codedly (in most cases), but the removal of full magickers started my slow slide to stop playing. I've thought about this quite a bit and it's all down to the time investment. Full guild magickers let me roll up a PC, do a moderate amount of spell training and be able to jump into the game with a useful playable PC.

I just don't have the time to grind out mundane skillset after mundane skillset anymore. And yes, I know lots of you enjoy playing social PCs who don't use many skills and the like, but I do not.

I'd love to see some options to grinding.

Like "You may give up something to start with higher skills" or something similar. Or a class option that has fewer skills available or maybe a lower maximum to their skills, but starts with them much higher.

[mansa]

The thing I dislike about full mage classes was the inherent end game focus of these character tropes.  I rarely witnessed a long-lived full mage who didn't attempt to focus solely on their element and attempt to go down that path.

Every single one that I saw attempted to become one with their element, and it was their end-game storyline quest.

It's like how blue robed templar's goal is to become a red robe templar.
...And how a political noble's goal is to become a senior noble.
The game doesn't readily allow you to focus on something else, if you don't have the ability to be successful in that something else.


It's just there's nothing else to do when you're playing a mage, primarily as a mage.  You don't have any combat skills, or many crafting skills.  You're pigeonholed into a role and the way the game responds to your progression puts you on a singular storyline.


::edited to add::

It's also hella fun to play those character tropes.