The Allanak Problem

[triste]

Grinding out coin for that is not my idea of fun, neither is waiting around and hoping that a small PC will show up (how does a hole that fits a dwarf, but not a skinny elf make sense anyway? The dwarf has way wider shoulders...), but that's relatively minor.

Bahaha spoken like someone who has played a Two Moons. It is silly, and seems minor, but is a valid grievance... size restriction code in caves has always been annoying, but it is acutely annoying in this circumstance.

[Pariah]

On Two Moons:

I think I played one?  But I don't recall if I did it was such a short lived character it didn't matter.

But I have interacted with them on most characters because you really can't help but interact with them playing an outdoor character and that's pretty much all I do.

I love them, and here is why, they act like a tribe of desert elves.  For the most part they don't give a fuck about coins from my experience.  They want items that help the tribe/crafting items.   I've actually had interactions where I offered coin for X and they are like, Ok...X amount, but I'd prefer Y thing instead.

I've been saved by them after falling into the huge hole near the fortress, and actually had a very long lived character after that which wouldn't have happened if they weren't there to guide me out and give me my second lease on (that) life.

I feel bad for them though because their chances of interaction are probably very slim and far between.  But I have no complaints about the Two Moon at all.

[Armaddict]

Ahem.

I really don't think this was supposed to be a rail on two moons thing as much as a statement that people not queuing up around the corner to play them doesn't make their existence a loss.  Plentiful roles of large variety throughout the game do not always have to be chock full of people for the option to play them to be worth it, and that's kind of the mentality I'm disagreeing with vehemently.  10 people in the byn versus 5 in the byn, 2 in oashi elite, 2 in tor, and 1 in borsail, I'll choose the latter if only because there's a lot more dynamics going on -between- the RPT's by nature of conflicting goals.

[HeeBeeGB]

Ahem.

I really don't think this was supposed to be a rail on two moons thing as much as a statement that people not queuing up around the corner to play them doesn't make their existence a loss.  Plentiful roles of large variety throughout the game do not always have to be chock full of people for the option to play them to be worth it, and that's kind of the mentality I'm disagreeing with vehemently.  10 people in the byn versus 5 in the byn, 2 in oashi elite, 2 in tor, and 1 in borsail, I'll choose the latter if only because there's a lot more dynamics going on -between- the RPT's by nature of conflicting goals.

Agree 100%. I don't think a clan/tribe's popularity by how many people they have in them at any given time makes them better/worse than other options. It just so happens that X amount of people are playing in it at that time. It's part of why I think there should be random one off's for things like the Oashi Elite or even SLK, with the latter coming with a memo that it will be very ISO most of the time. Or, to allow players to come up with concepts, and even if the clan is closed, if there's a way to work them in, to work them in.

Part of why Allanak isn't my favorite place to play is the amount of roles or lifestyles I can choose from is finite, and I've done most of them already. So it feels like a re-hash. Part of why Tuluk v Allanak was a good balance wasn't because people in Allanak would interact with Tuluki often, it was that when I/someone dies, they can jump to the other side for a completely fresh perspective and dust off the cobwebs. When I play in or around Allanak now, my next PC is almost certainly some indie/abroad/Tuluki out of Morins/tribal, because I just plain don't want to run into the same long-lived PCs again. I give it about 3 months or longer, and then consider it OK to play in Allanak again. That is of course my prerogative, and doesn't necessarily point out there being something wrong with Allanak itself, but I don't think I'm alone in that viewpoint.

I suppose along those lines, opening up more niche roles in Allanaki society doesn't necessarily address that issue. But having different options might be appealing enough to try something different/new in Allanak despite that hangup.

Hard to say.

[Pariah]

Ahem.

I really don't think this was supposed to be a rail on two moons thing as much as a statement that people not queuing up around the corner to play them doesn't make their existence a loss.  Plentiful roles of large variety throughout the game do not always have to be chock full of people for the option to play them to be worth it, and that's kind of the mentality I'm disagreeing with vehemently.  10 people in the byn versus 5 in the byn, 2 in oashi elite, 2 in tor, and 1 in borsail, I'll choose the latter if only because there's a lot more dynamics going on -between- the RPT's by nature of conflicting goals.

If you're saying that you'd rather there be many choices of clan/playstyle despite having lots of people in the clan.  I agree.  I personally think that most Noble houses and organizations should allow player involvement.

I think that having a plethora of options is always good for playing the game.

However, if they aren't going to open up those clans/houses etc.  I think the current spread of orgs is too far spread, which is why I said Consolidation may be needed.

If you have 30 roleplaying opportunities split between Allanak, Luirs and Morins, I say leave it be.  But when there is simply Kurac and Garrison in Luirs and everything else in Allanak, it feels spread too thing to me.  Just my feeling.

[Armaddict]

If you have 30 roleplaying opportunities split between Allanak, Luirs and Morins, I say leave it be.  But when there is simply Kurac and Garrison in Luirs and everything else in Allanak, it feels spread too thing to me.  Just my feeling.

To elaborate...I don't like isolation.  At least not to a certain degree.  But I favor a variety of roles available (not always filled) that are in close proximity to each other economically, politically, socially, or militarily.  It can be frustrating as a leader when things are this way, because you want more people to be able to do more things, but on the converse side, you have all the people you need, but just a lot less that feels meaningful to do.  It's a delicate balance that often sways one side to the other, and my personal stance is that leaning towards more clans and the roles within them leads to more player-checklists as far as things to do.

[HeeBeeGB]

If you have 30 roleplaying opportunities split between Allanak, Luirs and Morins, I say leave it be.  But when there is simply Kurac and Garrison in Luirs and everything else in Allanak, it feels spread too thing to me.  Just my feeling.

To elaborate...I don't like isolation.  At least not to a certain degree.  But I favor a variety of roles available (not always filled) that are in close proximity to each other economically, politically, socially, or militarily.  It can be frustrating as a leader when things are this way, because you want more people to be able to do more things, but on the converse side, you have all the people you need, but just a lot less that feels meaningful to do.  It's a delicate balance that often sways one side to the other, and my personal stance is that leaning towards more clans and the roles within them leads to more player-checklists as far as things to do.

The flip side to this and something to consider is Active versus Passive Role Calls.

So, currently, a vacancy is made and then filled. A Kuraci/Kadian/Borsail dies or stores, and then a new one is called for, applications are filed, and then an applicant is chosen, rinse and repeat.

A system that had 'Passive Role Opportunities' would describe positions that might be held in various locations, that would slot in well with current players or plots, and could even include things like peak versus off-peak playtimes recommended, may be isolated, high social role, etc.

Examples might be:

Allanak -- Current Recommended Roles Available --

1. (Ongoing) Student in the Atrium - Application not required, can be sought out IG, race human required - Recently re-opened, active leadership - High political/social role, not restrictive, can lead to opportunities as an aide to a Noble or a better understanding of Allanaki politics. Peak and Off-peak playtimes.

2. (One Spot Available) Bastard of House Oash - Application required, submit though the request tool - Race human required - Serve as an unrecognized bastard within House Oash. Background can be discussed with Staff.

3. (Ongoing) Criminal - Any race, elf and human recommended - Whether it be the Eastside or Westside of the Labyrinth, leadership is active and plots are brewing. Create a crime-oriented character today and jump into the action.

Just a thought.

[Armaddict]

That's a very structured way of doing it, which is certainly not bad at all.  I generally just refer to it as an open world, where I create a character without something in mind and get slapped in the face by opportunities until one kinda just...'sits well' with the character.  I've never thought of that as high maintenance, but it certainly could be without my knowledge.

As is, this approach pretty much leads to the same opportunities with each character.  Again, disclaimer of me not being entirely current with the game, my exposure comes through discussions that I still watch.

[Pariah]

[quote author=HeeBeeGB link=topic=56084.msg1052383#msg1052383
Examples might be:

Allanak -- Current Recommended Roles Available --

1. (Ongoing) Student in the Atrium - Application not required, can be sought out IG, race human required - Recently re-opened, active leadership - High political/social role, not restrictive, can lead to opportunities as an aide to a Noble or a better understanding of Allanaki politics. Peak and Off-peak playtimes.

2. (One Spot Available) Bastard of House Oash - Application required, submit though the request tool - Race human required - Serve as an unrecognized bastard within House Oash. Background can be discussed with Staff.

3. (Ongoing) Criminal - Any race, elf and human recommended - Whether it be the Eastside or Westside of the Labyrinth, leadership is active and plots are brewing. Create a crime-oriented character today and jump into the action.

Just a thought.
[/quote]

I like it.  A few other muds have done stuff like this in the past, sorta like starter roles available to anyone who wanted to base a character around them or go for them.

I mean we could sorta do something like this with rumor boards, but it would be totally unvetted that way with no staff involvement and that gets iffy if there is clanning required.

[Brokkr]

While Shabago has given you his perspective, understand that Staff tend to live in this dual perspective environment.  We tend to have our personal perspective and we tend to have this perspective that grows over our time on Staff, and while I wouldn't say it is typically as formal as a defined position, it is a viewpoint that informs decision making as Staff.

This changes over time and is reflective of the people making up Staff.  Currently we are in the hiring process and I expect and influx of new Staff members soon. I absolutely expect that this will create a two-way street situation, where Staff position is influenced by these new arrivals and Staff perspective informs their own viewpoints. That is a process that takes a little time to play out. It also makes me a little hesitant to post anything more than personal opinion right now, as I expect some of these issues are near and dear to some people that will soon be on Staff.

My personal perspective is that over a very long span of time it has become very easy to be an independent.  In the last several years, Luirs was made much more easy to be an independent in, perhaps to the detriment of players basing themselves in other locations.  When talking about opening up roles, what is really be talking about is typically clan based roles.  I don't know in the current situation if them simply being open would be enough to entice people away from being independents.

The biggest enabler to being an independent is, IMHO, apartments.  Certainly we have seen what the introduction of apartments has done to dynamic of Luirs. I think if we severely restricted or removed apartments it might make more sense if some roles opened up.  The trend for a number of years has been the opposite, roles closed for various reasons (btw, one reason for closing GMH hunters was precisely loyalty with very low risk of betrayal) and apartments made more plentiful. To a certain extent this has loosened some the shackles that kept people in Allanak/Tuluk and made Luirs/Storm more capable of supporting player populations.

That is just where we are now. While it is unlikely we are going to ever roll back the clock and go back to the way it was when [insert favored period of Armageddon], it is also unlikely the current dynamic won't change over time, either.

[Pariah]

On the subject of Apartments...

Have they changed?  Because back when I used to use them, they were just areas to get murdered, or have some elf (assuming) rob everything including your furniture from it within a week?

Have they bumped up security? Are they just murder dens still?  Did they eliminate the burglars robbing you blind after you paid 500 sid for a month?

[HeeBeeGB]

Apartments are complex. I agree with the assessment that making it easier  (or even, too easy) for Indies has been a shift in recent years. I think that mostly revolves around the code of things...Without schedules or city restrictions, they can train more, take down game more, skin more, get more stuff, sell more stuff, make more money, have better access to apartments, be around more if they have the OOC time, and basically 'git gud' quicker than more restrictive clan roles.

Ways I see helping to address that in Luirs (as an example):
-Do away with first come, first serve for the most desirable apartments. Perhaps you need to actually plot/shmooze to get those apartments from Council members or the GMH in general, similar to warehouse spaces.
-Allow for people with more prominent status to kick out people who are just nobody hunters with a lot of money. Soandso who works for Salarr wants an apartment in Luirs? Alright, get rid of Hunter X from Morin's Village. Sorry Bub, you don't got staying power.
-Reduce the amount that people can store in apartments.
-Increase the decay rate on items in general. Not to the point of non-usability, but chests filled with plants not going bad, armor that stays in mint condition, and weapons that never break I think plays a role in this hoarder mentality.

I think the apartment complexes that have more communal hang-out/cook-spots are cooler than the ones where they are bolt-holes to either murder someone or have sex with them or store all your nice fancy things. I always liked the apartments off Poet's Circle because of the balconies, though from what I gather the Gaj ones with a similar layout are sort of useless (too easy to break into).

Apartments are tough. I do think they serve a purpose, but I'm not sure that is the purpose they are being used for. There should be limited storage and privacy for most Commoners. Higher end apartments should be less available to the rank and file, and come with better security and storage. Highest end apartments should only be available to elite commoners, and come with more storage and security. But I don't think that's how it currently plays out.

Also things like picking locks not ticking crime code, or even murdering people in apartments having a chance of ticking crime code, play into their sludgy sort of status right now.

[valeria]

I think consolidation has always worked better with a carrot than with a stick.  You tend to see consolidation when things that have been closed for a while open up, or when something new is put into the game and people want to explore it.  Sometimes interest tapers off and it gets closed again.  So what?  The fact that people stopped being interested for a while and it got closed doesn't mean that it being open was a failure, or that people didn't have fun doing it while it was bopping along, or that it will never be back again.

Or better yet, you see consolidation when new things come around, when areas have something shiny and new or are made more attractive.  Things are open for a while, and then they get closed when there's a lack of interest, and then they open up when there's interest again.  You also see consolidation when you've got a couple cool characters that make it longer than a week playing in an area, and other people run across them, have fun, and stick around.  People just cycle around the game, and it's better to draw them places than beat them away from other places with sticks.

I was one of those people who was really against closing Tuluk because I liked having options of places to play, and I hate playing around the same characters on multiple characters.  Nothing ruins an experience for me like running across people I used to know and knowing a bunch of their history and secrets.  Maybe I don't have enough of an IC/OOC barrier, I don't know.  These days, I avoid that mostly by playing for a while and then taking a break for a while to play some other game until I can't remember jack all about this game and who's where in it, so it doesn't really bother me as much anyway.

But, hey, these days I'm on team Close Allanak Too, so we can see an actual rugged desert survival game without all the sponsored roles and 'mother may I.'  The only thing that ever really, consistently bums me out about this game is the glass ceiling and how easily my enjoyment of a character can be ruined by something silly because The Pillar of the Virtual World is Massive and Unchanging.  I love most of the people on staff.  There's so much good will toward the game and creative energy in just about every staffer I've known.  I wish they got to throw that creative energy into making new things rather than answering mail and telling us kids 'no' all the time.  But anything new going into the game has to be established and then staffed, all while the existing staff seems to get dragged down and overwhelmed with answering mail, because we need to ask our parents to do anything, and they get bummed out at telling us no too.  Because The Virtual World is nine miles high and if you murder that Nenyuk oh boy they're gonna get mad and destroy House Kurac and then ... something.

I say, maybe it would be nice.  We could have a nice RPT where House Kurac gets thrown on a nice little bonfire and then get to see the rise of House Kawaii and their fire kanks!  And then maybe they would burn their own house down and we could get something else.  And people would probably want to be around for that, because it would be something shiny and new and a big deal.

Thank you for attending my rambling ted talk.  tldr; Consolidation Carrot beats Consolidation Stick.  Please enjoy this gif:

[Narf]

But, hey, these days I'm on team Close Allanak Too, so we can see an actual rugged desert survival game without all the sponsored roles and 'mother may I.'  The only thing that ever really, consistently bums me out about this game is the glass ceiling and how easily my enjoyment of a character can be ruined by something silly because The Pillar of the Virtual World is Massive and Unchanging.  I love most of the people on staff.  There's so much good will toward the game and creative energy in just about every staffer I've known.  I wish they got to throw that creative energy into making new things rather than answering mail and telling us kids 'no' all the time.  But anything new going into the game has to be established and then staffed, all while the existing staff seems to get dragged down and overwhelmed with answering mail, because we need to ask our parents to do anything, and they get bummed out at telling us no too.  Because The Virtual World is nine miles high and if you murder that Nenyuk oh boy they're gonna get mad and destroy House Kurac and then ... something.

I've always wanted to try an experiment where staff just close all upper echelon roles for like a month. People currently in those roles get temporarily stored and can make a new character for the month, but go back to their old one after the experiment.

Maybe this would be closing Allanak for a month while simultaneously running some big political event amongst the outlying regions. Maybe you keep Allanak open, but now suddenly the important PCs are the aides (to NPC nobles) or sergeants or house members. This would work to compress the social structure down so that everyone could interact with everyone else socially. Then you just sit back and see what happens.

Just to see how the game runs when all the more isolated roles are NPCs. Maybe it crashes and burns, but it's just for a month or so. And there's always the possibility that the game suddenly boosts massively in population.

[Greve]

Again, I'm asking what was done in these branches that couldn't be done in a formed, inclusive crew? I saw trust/politics. What else? I'm lumping title into "Politics". To spell it out clearly - I am not saying NO! These are never, ever happening again in any way shape or form! I am asking for actual points in their favor that can not be done as is.

It's like asking what the difference is between selling homegrown produce at the side of the road and working in Walmart's produce section. While they fundamentally have something in common, they're completely different experiences. I must admit that your asking why people care whether their hunters are employed by one of the Great Merchant Houses of Zalanthas or merely part of some tiny crew (or completely alone in the world) is... strange. The answer is obvious. The question shouldn't even need to be asked.

What's the difference between playing an indepedent nobody who happens to have a heavy_combat class, and a member of the Allanaki army? What's the difference between playing some random unaffiliated pickpocket and a member of the Guild? What's the difference between playing a tribal in a virtual made-up tribe with no other real members and a tribesman of the Tan Muark? These are the same question as the one you asked.

The hunter experience on its own is not that exciting, to be perfectly honest. Once you're familiar with the gameworld, there aren't really any surprises left. With just a bit of skill under your belt, you can overcome 95% of the threats out there. But when you work for a GMH, you're so much more than a dude who rides out and kills animals. You're a ground-level operative for a corporation whose influence spans the world. You might be tasked with anything from soldier-like duties to assassination schemes.

When you play an indie hunter in today's Armageddon, the onus is entirely on you to turn the role into something other than a mindless slayer of NPC animals. Some make that work, but I think it's clear by now that many don't, because there's just not a whole lot to work with out there. You rarely meet anyone, and when you do, you're just some random hunter that noone's likely to care a whole lot about. You can spend RL days camping out in any given area and experience nothing more than the built-in threats of the gameworld, which are easily overcome if you've been through it before.

But in the past, GMH hunters were - to some extent - special agents for the company. Whether or not that's thematically correct, they were. You weren't merely asked to go kill this and that animal and bring back its hide, you were the people who went out and got shit done. You looked after the interests of the House. Maybe the role should have been rebranded from mere "hunter" to something more suitable, but the fact remains that Armed Agent of the House was the role they played at least for Kadius and Salarr (Kurac had their own actual division for that purpose), and it worked very well, lending these clans so much more nuance than they have today where really all they do is sell shirts and swords.

[triste]

Again, I'm asking what was done in these branches that couldn't be done in a formed, inclusive crew? I saw trust/politics. What else? I'm lumping title into "Politics". To spell it out clearly - I am not saying NO! These are never, ever happening again in any way shape or form! I am asking for actual points in their favor that can not be done as is.

[ . . . a well reasoned response . . . ]

Sometimes I feel like there are fewer and fewer things left for me to care about in this game, but House Hunting is one of those things that still appeals to me, and I've noticed it's one of those few topics that get not only old players excited but it gets new players who have never experienced it excited.

If I could emphasize anything besides what Greve's post already said perfectly, we are lacking two things since House hunting has been removed:
- The opportunity for new hunter PCs to develop skills and expertise
- The opportunity for hunter PCs to gain rank and prestige

If anyone says something like, "But Hunters can join the Byn for rank, then leave to be a hunter," sure, that's POSSIBLY equivalent from a lame "I only think about skill gainz" perspective, but from a roleplay perspective it's completely different, and completely inadequate compared to the House hunter experience. I don't care how harsh Zalanthas is -- not everyone is fine with the life of a Mercenary and what it entails, such as fighting Gith or killing other humanoids. Some human beings, shockingly enough, aren't psychopathic or sociopathic enough to be able to turn a weapon against another humanoid, but they might be able to turn their weapons against beasts for the sake survival or the distinct love of hunting. Current options for indie hunters starting out are to [1] possibly break character and be a mercenary for a second just because it's the only playable option for raising your skills if you want to hunt later and [2] skill up by hunting alone, which is viable for veteran players, dangerous for new players, and devoid of social RP for all players. Lastly, if the new player goes for the "I am a hunter but have to join the Byn because there are fuck all options," they are going to find that they're never going to have the opportunity to practice skinning, the hunt skill, etc, because it's in their Sergeant's interests to speed ride from point A to B. I don't even know how new players learn to hunt, beyond the rare encounter with a helpful indie hunter: I've gotten messages from new players thanking me for "showing them how to explore and play the game," simply because they were lucky enough to meet me an have me take them under my wing as a hunter. If this is what it took to retain these new players, then we MUST open House Hunters so that new players can reliably learn to hunt. Because their options now are [1] join the Byn (sucks) [2] Hunt alone and probably die (sucks) [3] By great luck meet an indie hunter with the patience to show you the game of hunting (rare).

Lastly, there is the matter of rank and prestige. I've seen some Kurac PCs try to nurture their hunters and fill the void left by the closure of House Hunters, but there is still no chance for advancement. As a hunter you might walk around with pride as being Salarr's best hunter, but what benefits does that get you? Absolutely nothing by design. You might be the best Hunter a House has, but you're left standing on the street begging for time to get an audience in the House you hunt for; you are left begging like a stinking beggar, you are not able to walk in proudly with your kill and set it down for all the house servants to see, because you basically are a nature-murder-hobo, an indie hunter, a scrub -- why you are left being an indie scrub, the documents do not say or support, but you are -- you're never going to get rank or respect so you might as well just embrace it and greb shit on the side or something.

[Gentleboy]

Again, my issue with talking about GMH Hunters in this thread is that it sends people to the North. There's better hunting in the North and anyone who hunts in the South is just a grebber who happens to need to kill a scrab or see a Chalton.

If there were more creatures around Allanak I think that the GMH Hunters would be valid to talk about here, but, I think hunting is something people do around Luir's mostly.

[Armaddict]

An interesting thought as far as the apartments, Brokkr.  I actually just had the idea that maybe my assumption that the stealthy complaints that have come about aren't because of the consolidation of pickpocket/burglar into the same class, but because...well...people have a lot of junk to lose.  Could be either/or, could be both, could be a bunch of things, but that was a thought.  A random thought.  It has nothing to do with the discussion at hand.  Carry on.

I feel like this has been brought up before.  It would seem to be reinforced by ideas such as the 'where' command...people are in their private space, and want to be able to check and see if things are happening elsewhere without actually having to leave.  But at the same time, people are actively searching for interaction, it seems, so being locked up behind a door wouldn't make much sense in that pursuit...

Do -you- have ideas of how to restrict apartments?  Perhaps in some way that would make the pursuit of a warehouse in an indy group more desirable, giving more reason to 'group up' than remain truly indy?  If that's the case, then some of the restrictions on the MMH/Warehouse-group setup might be in order.  I can't really think of a reasonable way to do it aside from maybe make them unable to hold so damn much. xD

[StrangledShriek]

Just a thought, but I don't think making apartments in Luirs worse is a great way to make Allanak better. I'd really love to see something that improved Allanak rather than a nerf elsewhere. (Or just shift the staff focus away from Allanak and leave it like Morin's for a while. Follow the players instead of forcing us to come to you)

[Brokkr]

Do -you- have ideas of how to restrict apartments?

I could easily make it so that you had to be in the Garrison or one of the GMH in order to be able to rent an apartment in Luirs at all.  What I have seen is that as apartments were added, and then more apartments, to Luirs, more people based Independent characters out of Luirs.  It is more of an observation that things like this can have an affect on where people play, and thus which areas of the game are happening and which are not.

[Wday]

I am going to dare and share my thought. And this is in no way pointed to anyone and their play, because I do not know how or what all everyone does. But I feel to make any City, Village or clan better! We has players need to roleplay and flesh out plots and things icly more. Yes this is a MDC game, but lets flesh it out more like back in the day. In saying this my idea of that is slow down and plot your actions icly. Find a reason icly to really want to murder Bobby Jo and his cousin that may or may not be in your clan or play area. Lets give more depth in each others characters other then simply I am making a raider to kill long lived ones, If you are templars or powerful roles be imposing be as docs say you are. But remember if you just are walking around to murder the lessors then people ARE going to avoid that area and play. Again I am not judging and pointing fingers at us completely, I am saying just remember before you act think is it worth it to you and the other players around you.

[HeeBeeGB]

Do -you- have ideas of how to restrict apartments?

I could easily make it so that you had to be in the Garrison or one of the GMH in order to be able to rent an apartment in Luirs at all.  What I have seen is that as apartments were added, and then more apartments, to Luirs, more people based Independent characters out of Luirs.  It is more of an observation that things like this can have an affect on where people play, and thus which areas of the game are happening and which are not.

I think also (along these lines) a new clan(s) could be made that define social strata in both Allanak and Luirs, and are recruited into by Nobles and Templars for Allanak, and GMH Council members for Luirs. Though not this in name (Couldn't think of anything off the top of my head), in title/practice it would be 'Middle Class'. It could grant you privileges to certain apartment complexes and/or parts of the city/outpost, or even certain shops that only sell to your strata and higher.

How does one become Middle Class? You're either born into it, or you bribe your way into it, and the haves decide if you're worthy. It would require plotting, meeting with Nobles/Templars/GMH Council to make your case and be of use to them in some way.

Examples I could see are the Arboretum in Allanak, so it is more clearly defined who are the haves and the have nots and who has access, right now it's pretty vague. Welen's Fineries would be another example, where they don't sell to have-nots, regardless of how much coin they might have from Indy Hunting. Examples in Luirs might be the apartment complexes in the west that are more desirable and currently taken by long lived PCs, and snatched up on a first come first serve basis. Instead, they would only be available to those who are of this new strata, defined by the GMH Council. Examples of shops might be trickier in Luirs, as it is a Trading Outpost, and doesn't really have 'high end' shops in the same way Allanak does.

It is a privilege that could be taken away by those same people (even different Nobles/Templars) which creates more friction between factions and who is on your good/bad side. GMH Family Members might be born into it, whereas commoner GMH that are just coming up through the ranks are not, providing further difference between the two. It could be something that is purchased with 1 karma at CharGen, so if you want to play a more well-to-do Merchant/Son of Merchant/Daughter of Merchant etc, it would be possible out of the gates, and maybe comes with something like Cavilish.

I'm not sure how it would be denoted. A token that could be worn, similar to the Allanaki Mercantile token? Tattoos aren't used much outside of Tuluk for denoting things at a glance, so I imagine it would be a worn piece of equipment.

[Spiderman]

Random thoughts:

Apartments:  Remove them entirely, give GMH compounds apartments instead of barracks, make it so you have to be clanned to get a deep discount on heavily marked up unclanned apartment pricing, keep them as they are but raise the cost some.

Workshops:  Turn apartments into workshops that are save rooms, but you can't quit out in them, with worktables and basic storage.  These are not warehouses that are player clan achievement, and thus are easy to break into, expensive in relation to use, and not very big. 

GMH:  Remove hiring caps, but institute population caps, requiring there to be a certain number representing each "civilization center" you're doing business out of.

Council:  It's horrible and one of the worst things I ever participated in when it came to getting frustrated due to lack of structure.

GMH2:  Again.  Have leadership designated to Luirs to focus on Luirs and the Luirs council, garrison, tribals...and one designated to Allanak and all the political mess that goes on there.  For one person solo, it's like juggling knives, it can turn into the worst part time job ever, really fast, and the lack of consistent presence makes it URGENT for Templars and Nobles to abuse someone they don't see often.

[Armaddict]

Random thoughts:

Apartments:  Remove them entirely, give GMH compounds apartments instead of barracks, make it so you have to be clanned to get a deep discount on heavily marked up unclanned apartment pricing, keep them as they are but raise the cost some.

Workshops:  Turn apartments into workshops that are save rooms, but you can't quit out in them, with worktables and basic storage.  These are not warehouses that are player clan achievement, and thus are easy to break into, expensive in relation to use, and not very big. 

GMH:  Remove hiring caps, but institute population caps, requiring there to be a certain number representing each "civilization center" you're doing business out of.

Council:  It's horrible and one of the worst things I ever participated in when it came to getting frustrated due to lack of structure.

GMH2:  Again.  Have leadership designated to Luirs to focus on Luirs and the Luirs council, garrison, tribals...and one designated to Allanak and all the political mess that goes on there.  For one person solo, it's like juggling knives, it can turn into the worst part time job ever, really fast, and the lack of consistent presence makes it URGENT for Templars and Nobles to abuse someone they don't see often.

These are all intriguing to me, and would like to hear other people's pros/cons on them.

[mansa]

I think it's been pretty standard and almost required in most MMORPGs over the past 10 years is Player Housing.

But, you can look at the failures of other games' implementations and try not to duplicate them.


In my experience of World of Warcraft:
a) everything can be completed within the player housing.  (skill increases, item trading, item gathering)
b) community chat was enabled in the player housing.   (Trade chat was enabled)
c) nobody could enter the player housing without permission.   
d) Incentives to stay within the player housing.  (Currency Making and Daily Quests were available)

What happened was that the players would stay in their housing, and they wouldn't come out and be social with other players.  There was very little incentive to leave besides the weekly "raid" dungeon content.  And in the next expansion they changed it up:

a) quests were enabled, but gathering resources were turned off.
b) community chat was enabled
c) player housing was forcefully shared with other players, but PVP was turned off.
d) and they introduced a centralized hub for players to return to get their "bank" items.

And it seemed to create more of a community setting - because certain tasks were turned off and certain tasks still continued.



In terms of ArmageddonMUD, I would put forth that warehouse / storage locations are not "quit" rooms - force the players to leave to stop playing the game.
I would put in restrictions to the max weight of the room for independants, because their warehouses are smaller than the merchant houses.   I think a gradual increase in warehouse capacity would be a goal for a character going through the player created clan process.