The Allanak Problem

[Delirium]

I want to point out something here that I think gets overlooked a lot...

Machine-gun style go-go-go gameplay and whirlwind plotting gets exhausting without occasional interludes.

We NEED the cycle. There have to be breaks in the intensity or it will become completely overwhelming.

If we can't get those quiet interludes without logging out... then we'll just fucking log out.

I'd rather people be in game, even if they're taking a break and being quiet, than not logging in due to burnout.

Y'all can be some judgy motherfuckers. If Amos wants to sit around and focus on character development for a few days and chillax rather than murder, corrupting, and slaughtering his way through the gameworld, what's so wrong with that?

Different gameplay styles. Armageddon used to be great about accommodating all of them.

I feel like there's been a push toward forcing specific preferred gameplay styles, and I'm not a fan.

Let people enjoy the game however they like, as long as they're not being abusive or breaking the core rules of the setting.

[Barsook]

Maybe we really do need "seasons" for staff ran plots that can lead to the world-changing ones.

[MeTekillot]

will post bigly and possibly make a thread when I get home on this

[Armaddict]

I want to point out something here that I think gets overlooked a lot...

Machine-gun style go-go-go gameplay and whirlwind plotting gets exhausting without occasional interludes.

We NEED the cycle. There have to be breaks in the intensity or it will become completely overwhelming.

If we can't get those quiet interludes without logging out... then we'll just fucking log out.

I'd rather people be in game, even if they're taking a break and being quiet, than not logging in due to burnout.

Y'all can be some judgy motherfuckers. If Amos wants to sit around and focus on character development for a few days and chillax rather than murder, corrupting, and slaughtering his way through the gameworld, what's so wrong with that?

Different gameplay styles. Armageddon used to be great about accommodating all of them.

I feel like there's been a push toward forcing specific preferred gameplay styles, and I'm not a fan.

Let people enjoy the game however they like, as long as they're not being abusive or breaking the core rules of the setting.

This is all well and good.  I generally agree.  You can hear me talk about this all the time in discord, when people are ranting about good and bad RP, and what people should and shouldn't do in order to be good roleplayers.

But this is an entire thread discussing ideas on how to increase activity in an area.  The response of 'just keep it low activity' may be true for some scenarios of needing a slowdown and whatnot, but isn't exactly addressing the original idea, which is how to keep the slowdown from permeating long term.

[Void]

The issue with crime code isn't whether it's easy or hard to avoid, I avoid it literally on the time (On 'brawler' types and 'sneaky climb-y' types). It's that it doesn't let me do my Romeo and Juliet battles in the street or rough someone up without having to flee and hide from the entire city for X hours. In the most brutal city in the known I can't slap someone around on the side street to get a point across without the person I just hit laughing as I haul ass away from soldiers.

Can't say I've had this problem. It all depends how you go about things.

Explain to me how you've managed to engage in HP damage dealing combat in the streets in broad daylight, I'm curious.

Yes, it depends on how you go about things.

That's the problem. I'm outright restricted from doing it the 'brutal Allanaki way'.
A noble can't order his guard to attack a commoner for insulting him without it getting arrested, I've seen it happen and it's hilarious but it shouldn't be happening. Em slap is lame and results in the quasi em 'I'm actually super quick and fast I dodge u and run away' fight.

An elf can't rough someone up on the side of the road without knowing he's chilling on the rooftops for the next day or so unless it just so happens to be nighttime.

I already have issue enough finding people in this game having to wait for it to be dark so I can be a cool alley cat is already more limiting and I'd guess to say it's why 90% of criminal stuff is breaking into your apartment and stealing your furniture.

I've engage in enough HP damage to kill people multiple times. There are several tactics depending on your main guild but I'm not really sure I should be laying out how to PK on the forums.

[Jihelu]

"I've engage in enough HP damage to kill people multiple times."

Me too, but I highly doubt you are doing this on the side of the road during daylight. And if you are, you're skilled enough to just ignore the guards till the swarm gets too annoying.

[Dar]

Can I join on the peepee measuring contest? Mine is small, but I have twelve of them that I borrowed from all those killings.

[Delirium]

Definitely not suggesting keeping it low activity but more suggesting that often, there is a lot of activity.. that just doesn't make it to the bars and general populace for a variety of reasons. We can probably work on fixing those reasons, but it puts even more pressure on those already dealing with activity.

1) Be more visible. Period. Stop worrying so damn much about the pickpockets or cheesy assassins. Just show up.
2) Delegate, delegate, fucking delegate.
4) Remember board posts. No need for details, in fact vague is good. Hint at what's going on so people have plot hooks and things to investigate.
5) Create your own fun, and no I don't mean "purposefully introduce chaos just to get your giggles off", I mean have a goal, a purpose, and something to work toward to fill those downtime hours-- because if you have a goal, you will inevitably meet people who you can either draw into it or conflict with over it.

In many ways people tend to create self-fulfilling prophecies... when there's a downturn in visible activity, instead of creating fun or seeking it out, they go "OH NO THE GAME IS DEAD" and that creates the perception of the game being dead when it isn't and rinse repeat ad nauseam.

Oh yeah and....

The 50 count limit on board posts is painful. Staff is there any way to expand that more?

Oh yeah AND...

STOP BEING SO SECRETIVE OVER THINGS THAT DON'T NEED TO BE SECRETIVE.

Yes some things have to be played close to the vest. But for fuck's sake, give people windows into what's going on and ways to get involved.

[Narf]

Oh yeah AND...

STOP BEING SO SECRETIVE OVER THINGS THAT DON'T NEED TO BE SECRETIVE.

Yes some things have to be played close to the vest. But for fuck's sake, give people windows into what's going on and ways to get involved.

MOAR GOSSIP yah mooks.

[williamson]

Definitely not suggesting keeping it low activity but more suggesting that often, there is a lot of activity.. that just doesn't make it to the bars and general populace for a variety of reasons. We can probably work on fixing those reasons, but it puts even more pressure on those already dealing with activity.

1) Be more visible. Period. Stop worrying so damn much about the pickpockets or cheesy assassins. Just show up.
2) Delegate, delegate, fucking delegate.
4) Remember board posts. No need for details, in fact vague is good. Hint at what's going on so people have plot hooks and things to investigate.
5) Create your own fun, and no I don't mean "purposefully introduce chaos just to get your giggles off", I mean have a goal, a purpose, and something to work toward to fill those downtime hours-- because if you have a goal, you will inevitably meet people who you can either draw into it or conflict with over it.

In many ways people tend to create self-fulfilling prophecies... when there's a downturn in visible activity, instead of creating fun or seeking it out, they go "OH NO THE GAME IS DEAD" and that creates the perception of the game being dead when it isn't and rinse repeat ad nauseam.

Oh yeah and....

The 50 count limit on board posts is painful. Staff is there any way to expand that more?

Oh yeah AND...

STOP BEING SO SECRETIVE OVER THINGS THAT DON'T NEED TO BE SECRETIVE.

Yes some things have to be played close to the vest. But for fuck's sake, give people windows into what's going on and ways to get involved.

Lots of good advice. Thanks for sharing it.

[MeTekillot]

PROPOSALS

Remove crimcode, except in the cases of the following:
A nearby soldier witnesses the crime. Implement a system where a nearby soldier can be paid off to move out of the room to the nearest tavern.
OR
A person has been incriminated by a Templar. However, change the incrimination duration for the current 'permanent' incrimination to a period of 3-5 IC years.

Instead, be more loose with doling out NPC thugs to clanned characters. An Agent or Junior Merchant should have 1-2 guards at all times. They should have the choice to bolster their current retinue with PC mercenaries. If a PC mercenary wants to play at guard without being in that clan, they should play ball with joining the Byn, or incur the Byn's wrath for cutting in on their guard contract revenue.

Otherwise, let people rent out NPC thugs, of varying toughness, with a max of three thugs per person. The price of renting a thug should vary based on
1) How many thugs you currently have (up to a max of three)
2) How tough the thugs are
-----

I think with the above proposals implemented, a number of things would be facilitated. Inter-clan conflict. Criminal shenanigans. Actual motivation for making coin beyond earning the privilege of inflicting your Minor Merchant House upon the world. Down and dirty street brawls. The Byn actually having something to goddamn do besides escort people, scout, and kill ten scrabs or the occasional mekillot contract.

[mansa]

Let me get this straight.



There is a feeling that Allanak isn't a fun place to play, and players don't play there..

And the solution is to turn it into a free-for-all murderfest?

Please correct me if I'm not reading the last few pages right.

[Armaddict]

Let me get this straight.



There is a feeling that Allanak isn't a fun place to play, and players don't play there..

And the solution is to turn it into a free-for-all murderfest?

Please correct me if I'm not reading the last few pages right.

Literally at least 2 posts in the last two pages talking about how this is being blown completely out of proportion into what you just stated.  Loosening crimcode to make it fun to play criminals in the place where we have criminal enterprises is not a free for all murderfest.

[Jihelu]

What Armaddict said.

In 'Totally not Armageddon' there wasn't any crime code and it worked pretty well. Though the population was a lot smaller, proportionally the single town might have as many people as Allanak might.

No: People didn't just kill each other all willy nilly.
Yes: There were ways to prevent people from doing the former even without crime code. I remember seeing two angry mobs in my time, was pretty interesting.

[Void]

What Armaddict said.

In 'Totally not Armageddon' there wasn't any crime code and it worked pretty well. Though the population was a lot smaller, proportionally the single town might have as many people as Allanak might.

No: People didn't just kill each other all willy nilly.
Yes: There were ways to prevent people from doing the former even without crime code. I remember seeing two angry mobs in my time, was pretty interesting.

Mob code sounds great. Targeted at the offender. They run around trying to find them or something.

[X-D]

What amuses me is that. Crime code protects the criminals more then anybody else.

Take it away and in 3-6 months, no more pilferers, miscreants or infiltrators. I mean, not that I would complain. The ones that survive would have to play way smarter then they currently do.

And you think becoming known to pick pockets or that you break into apartments is bad now. Make it so any soldier/fighter/mage/enforcer/raider can rock you anywhere.

[Jihelu]

What amuses me is that. Crime code protects the criminals more then anybody else.

Take it away and in 3-6 months, no more pilferers, miscreants or infiltrators. I mean, not that I would complain. The ones that survive would have to play way smarter then they currently do.

And you think becoming known to pick pockets or that you break into apartments is bad now. Make it so any soldier/fighter/mage/enforcer/raider can rock you anywhere.

This is unironically what I want and I play almost strictly criminals.

[Armaddict]

What amuses me is that. Crime code protects the criminals more then anybody else.

In its current state, yes, but that has less to do with crimcode and more to do with training being far more widely available in non-criminal enterprises.

However, this quote is also kind of what's intended.  I'm not saying criminals should be able to murder non-criminals more easily...but they should feel a little better about doing -crime-.  That doesn't mean consequences go away.  That doesn't mean non-criminals won't perform criminal acts.  I mean...the whole point is to widen this field and make this dynamic interaction between characters have more content.  Not for it to benefit one side more than the other.

Crimcode doesn't just stifle crime.  It stifles conflict as a whole.  It removes content.  It should not go away completely.  But it should not be an automated, reliable stranglehold on a major source of all the emotions of the game that come from conflict and danger.  Grief.  Excitement.  Fear.  Drive.  Anger.  Plotting.  And it MOST CERTAINLY should not be the one source in the game of automated creation of the virtual world.

[X-D]

I am not arguing against it, I was just pointing something out.

I assure you, if most/any of the suggestions on this subject in this thread went into affect say years ago, I would have had to file at least 80 more PK reports.

Is that a bad thing? I do not know, but I am just warning that it would be the case.

Now, If I was to change crime code. I would limit it to "in sight". Though that might not be what people think. (and this applies to allanak only) If a crime is committed the crime code for your pc is only in the rooms that were in sight of the crime happening. If you manage to get 4 rooms away AND out of line of sight without a soldier chasing you (or angry mob, whatever) Then you are free and clear unless you enter those rooms again before the timer wears off. though I would make that timer longer then it is now. In allanak, it actually does not make sense that the entire city knows your desc and that you are wanted. Not the case in Tuluk of course.

[Barsook]

I pondered this for awhile, but Allanak seems to be shallow to me, maybe because of the bluntness creating the shallowness.