Content and creation

[gotdamnmiracle]

I think the idea of the setting is that agriculture is some sort of closely guarded secret. Like house Rennick (I think) is the only one growing gardens and there are zero farmer commoners.

Isn't Yaroch (and other villages around Allanak) full of farmer commoners...?  I've met a handful of 'farmers coming for a better life in the city' PCs from Yaroch over the years.

I understood that it was full of soldiers and farming slaves. Maybe I'm wrong?

[betweenford]

I think the idea of the setting is that agriculture is some sort of closely guarded secret. Like house Rennick (I think) is the only one growing gardens and there are zero farmer commoners.

Isn't Yaroch (and other villages around Allanak) full of farmer commoners...?  I've met a handful of 'farmers coming for a better life in the city' PCs from Yaroch over the years.

I understood that it was full of soldiers and farming slaves. Maybe I'm wrong?

IIRC yaroch is populated by commoners, soldiers, overseers, slaves and common wretches much like allanak. There's a few techniques and such employed to agriculture that are "small secrets" and "full-blown" secrets.  But much of the toil of allanaki villagers isn't exactly a secret. I'd imagine things like harvesting, reaping, weeding, (obvious) pest control, plowing and sowing would all be common knowledge. How to do it right on the other hand and have a successful harvest is another thing entirely, especially in an arid desert.

[Pew Pew]

Two Big Things in order of priority:

1. Can we PLEASE, please please, reverse the change that was made maybe 10-15 years ago of making the plots player driven, and have have a mix of World Driven Plots by staff. Specifically, Stuff that was like DragonThralls, Copper Wars, Kryl leaving the hive like the movie aliens(Way back when). I know there was garbage stuff that happened with plainsman etc, but please toss a bone.

2. Remove the Glass ceiling for PCs. Let there be Lieutenant Byn Sergeant PCs, One Red Robe Templar PC, A High Noble, Etc.

[Hauwke]

Two Big Things in order of priority:

1. Can we PLEASE, please please, reverse the change that was made maybe 10-15 years ago of making the plots player driven, and have have a mix of World Driven Plots by staff. Specifically, Stuff that was like DragonThralls, Copper Wars, Kryl leaving the hive like the movie aliens(Way back when). I know there was garbage stuff that happened with plainsman etc, but please toss a bone.

2. Remove the Glass ceiling for PCs. Let there be Lieutenant Byn Sergeant PCs, One Red Robe Templar PC, A High Noble, Etc.

100% both of these, well, maybe not the nobility side or Templars, I agree that those are a bit much power for players to wield codedly. Not because of trust but because to fully represent the power that is a Red Robe they would need to be basically invincible compared to other players.

That said, I would love to see Byn Lts playable, AoD Lieutenants also. Hell, throw it up and let people play a Marshall in the Garrison (if its the correct rank, I think it is but idk for sure.)

.

I would also absolutely love an overarcing and far more present staff ran meta-plot. Is it a bunch of work? I have no idea. But I am sure it could quite easily be figured out and then every month or so something big happens to shift the gameworld. Maybe the gith plot that has been happening for years finally gets the full love and attention it should and beseiges Allanak. Maybe they take over Luir's for that month and it is on us the players to fight back and win the Outpost back. Or not.

[gotdamnmiracle]

I agree with above.

[Dresan]

I don't think it is  just a matter of the plots but its the narrative that has to change especially for allanak.

Allanak won against Tuluk. They are so damn powerful nothing can threaten their walls. There are black robes and who knows what else protecting the city. This perception needs to begin going away.

They can't lose the city but they can lose other things like the valley. Mantis/gith alliance take it over. As soon as they rally the troops to take it back by force. Guess what tuluk stirs. Potential losses of soliders is unacceptable with unknown threat of tuluk. Sensing weakness Mantis and gith begin sending raiding and scouting groups into the city through underground. Meanwhile economy suffers, things cost more and merchants can't pay as much, pushing people to poverty and  making coins much harder to come by.(economy update )

When there are problems, people will strive to work to fix them, even if its small improvements, leading groups to get wood from the grey, scouting parties into the pah, leading charges against pushing gith/mantis hordes. This is why it used to be that a single raider could have a unit after then for robbing a grebber. The better the sense of real threat to the lives and homes of PCs the more they will rise up to do something with it, for good or bad.

For example, there was a constant threat of kyrl in tuluk, so the thorn barrier was erected. Culling parties went into the grey to cut down hordes of kyrl. New kryl based crafts were introduced. A lot of plots and accomplishments came out of this one narrative. And sure it was due to an HRPT which revamped the grey with kryl instead of halflings which required a lot of work but it was the right spirit of the stuff that the players needed to continue to make the game fun for themselves months afterwards.

[mansa]

re: Scribble with Chalk

Inner city scribble

Don't they last a fair bit as is? Inside rooms surely persist. If you mean on random walls and streets - I'm 50/50 on that, considering wind and sand scouring taking place at the best of times, and game chalk isn't exactly finely ground, super-glue like compounds we have in modern times. Heh.

Did you manage to take a look at the timer before it starts to degrade?

I still think for playability sake, we should triple or increase the timer tenfold for everything other than 'wilderness'

[gotdamnmiracle]

Status of tweaking magick subguilds. I sent in a request about the Nilazi subguild in specific and it seems like others echo similar issues for different subguilds. Will we be seeing a change in the spell suite for some of these subguilds or new spells added entirely? When should we expect to see those changes? Will they be represented in game by a planned event?

For reference my request was a year ago and I was assured it had sparked staff discussion and that's the last I've heard of it.

Could I have my question added to the question cue, please?

[Brokkr]

Sure Shabago will list it next time they get around to updating the list.  Please refrain from bumps.  We get to it when we get to it.

[BadSkeelz]

How about removing all drops over 4 rooms in the wilderness? "Shrink" the drops like the sinkhole north of Allanak. We ought to call that thing the Plot Hole for how many characters and plots its abruptly terminated over the years.

I'm not a great fan of these "instant death" falls. Not only do they stand a good chance of killing someone who makes a simple typo or other code error, I also think they have a depressing affect on willingness to adventure. "I could go explore this thing, but the chances of my character dying on a single skill roll are so high that I'd rather just not." If we make these rooms 4 drops, max, that's still a danger, but not nearly so fatal a one. It also opens up the possibilities of people needing to be rescued from these holes.

[gotdamnmiracle]

How about removing all drops over 4 rooms in the wilderness? "Shrink" the drops like the sinkhole north of Allanak. We ought to call that thing the Plot Hole for how many characters and plots its abruptly terminated over the years.

I'm not a great fan of these "instant death" falls. Not only do they stand a good chance of killing someone who makes a simple typo or other code error, I also think they have a depressing affect on willingness to adventure. "I could go explore this thing, but the chances of my character dying on a single skill roll are so high that I'd rather just not." If we make these rooms 4 drops, max, that's still a danger, but not nearly so fatal a one. It also opens up the possibilities of people needing to be rescued from these holes.

That would be nice, but I do think there should be things that require magickal effects to traverse such as flying, heat resistance, uh water breathing maybe? That said, I HATE death traps in a permadeath game. More often than not it's a failure on the games part to communicate how dangerous the thing actually was. No, I wouldn't walk straight off a massive cliff, nor plunge head first into the deep silt, nor step over the rim of a volcano. I may enter a relatively normal looking cave, but not one littered with bones, however. If it's not properly flagged the blame is NOT on the player! I would much prefer a "do you want to do this" for all those leaps you can toggles, or alternatively treat them as if something your PC wouldn't do willingly unless under a magickal effect. Your PC won't knowingly eat something that's poisonous (in most cases), and will only do so after poisoning something edible. But I agree for the most part.

[NinjaFruitSalad]

How about removing all drops over 4 rooms in the wilderness? "Shrink" the drops like the sinkhole north of Allanak. We ought to call that thing the Plot Hole for how many characters and plots its abruptly terminated over the years.

I'm not a great fan of these "instant death" falls. Not only do they stand a good chance of killing someone who makes a simple typo or other code error, I also think they have a depressing affect on willingness to adventure. "I could go explore this thing, but the chances of my character dying on a single skill roll are so high that I'd rather just not." If we make these rooms 4 drops, max, that's still a danger, but not nearly so fatal a one. It also opens up the possibilities of people needing to be rescued from these holes.

How do holes even get that big in a desert with winds like this unless they are being maintained by someone or something?

You would think that over a relatively short time, a large hole would get filled up by dirt and sand.

[ghostymudy]

How about removing all drops over 4 rooms in the wilderness? "Shrink" the drops like the sinkhole north of Allanak. We ought to call that thing the Plot Hole for how many characters and plots its abruptly terminated over the years.

I'm not a great fan of these "instant death" falls. Not only do they stand a good chance of killing someone who makes a simple typo or other code error, I also think they have a depressing affect on willingness to adventure. "I could go explore this thing, but the chances of my character dying on a single skill roll are so high that I'd rather just not." If we make these rooms 4 drops, max, that's still a danger, but not nearly so fatal a one. It also opens up the possibilities of people needing to be rescued from these holes.

Having fallen down the sinkhole a good few times, one of which was as an indie employer of other PCs, it definitely brings little more to the game than a needless end to characters and plots. Flee causing you to dive into a pit of certain death at noon with clear weather is pretty questionable; I'm fairly sure that if I'm ever in a dangerous situation where I need to escape, I will be able to move at a run while maintaining the presence of mind not to run full-tilt into the nearest wall when the other 3 cardinal directions are completely free of hazards. Two different problems but both rather silly.

[lostinspace]

Just fyi pretty sure you can specify a flee direction once you reach a certain breakpoint in the skill.

And I really like the concept of climb checks being barriers that can't just be muscled through. I'm for flee not yeeting you off cliffs, but removing them because players are typoing or not respecting their lethality seems excessive.

If no fall is fatal then it's just an annoying delay to scale, and eventually anyone with the time will be able to brute force attempt their way up.

[Hauwke]

You can always specify a direction, there is a check for going in the correct one though.

[gotdamnmiracle]

I think sandstorms kill more than the flee command, but they're both kind of ridiculous.

[Shabago]

I figure at the end of a week now, I can consider most rebuttals/comments and such made at this stage. I'll re-lock at this point, update the other lists and get replies out tonight/tomorrow.

Appreciate the civil discussion on all of this, guys and gals.

[Shabago]

A couple of people have mentioned wanting to be able to reply to my commentary stuff, so I'll re-open this as well, for such.

For now, I won't be taking more suggestions/adds or the like. This is purely as a means to discuss what is already being covered.

[gotdamnmiracle]

Thank you both, Shabago and Brokkr for replying. Though it sounds like it's not exactly the direction I was hoping you'd go in, I am glad that it was something that you guys found useful.

[NinjaFruitSalad]

I don't think anyone who hears a juicy secret should be obligated to spill the beans to anyone. Taking sensible RP into consideration should be the highest priority, not trying to hasten a plot unfolding or shooting your own foot for no reason, other than staff encouraging it.

[Khorm]

in response to shabago's plots n stuff:

i think time has a dampening effect on this stuff. the timeline of events, of plots, of player-made clans continues to spread out and seems to act as a deterrent to being proactive.

granted this is an observation of an on/off player, but it seems like we're creating an environment where the metagame behind achieving long-term objectives is to just turtle up and play it safe. spread plot from lord whatever and I'm likely to die. spread plot from crime master and I'm likely to die. if i were to try and make shit more interesting it would just hurt my chances of being the next Samos or whatever. it's hard to see the incentive, so we're all inflicting these boring ass played out "go on a patrol" plots on each other.

it's not a criticism of staff or players or trump, and i don't have a solution, but it does seem to at least play into the topic of plots.

[Dresan]

I think something that might be interesting to see if for the game to promote more PC based clans in areas that have less people and staff support.

From my perspective, I agree the current system is somewhat of a deterrent, along with the approach of support in the game. The amount of effort it takes on a player to create and fund a small clan or crew does not seem to be encouraged or rewarded by the game or staff.  Quite frankly most of the support in this game is clan based, if you are not in the clan you aren't often involved in the supported clan activities/plots which is a deterrent all on its own.  This is especially true if you are trying to start anything other that a hunter/gather group.

At the same time PC clans and crews emerging and declining are a great source of new and fresh content that should be promoted. There should be two stages to warehouses, just a warehouse and warehouse with guard (which would act like an apartment rent NPC) allowing more then one person to enter a warehouse. Maybe add a cost for every additional who can access the warehouse.

The current system sounds good on paper but it is only used once or twice a year perhaps it should be revised even if its in more remote locations.

[Brokkr]

stuff, good stuff

People who got to be legendary went out and did legendary things and survived.  Against the odds.  There seems to be a current of wanting to accomplish something "meaningful", but also, if you will, being sure that it is going to be "this character" that does it.  So a perception that hunkering down and not doing the things that make a character legendary will lead to that.  When part of the premise on our side is not everyone is going to make it, that you can't determine at the front end if a character will get things accomplished.  That the game isn't about succeeding, it is about overcoming (or not) the challenges.

Stuff that includes stuff about warehouses

There was a change made so warehouses have an apartment master, just like apartments.  Once you have been set up for a warehouse, you can rent through them.  NPCs are all sort of custom, so you still have to go through Staff for them.

[Dresan]

@ Brokkr

I've seen them and it was a solid addition. Though not sure if it makes sense for Redstorm to require it to be you starting location before you can rent there given the nature of the town.

My suggestion was to basically streamline mini PC clan compounds using warehouses. Frankly if players  could give more members of his crew access to his warehouse then it would promote creation of PC groups. This content would not make my character feel legendary, it still feels quite basic reward for being active in this game and being to be able to generate those amounts of coins regularly while finding other active people to work with you despite other staff sponsored clans offering everything short of steel weapons.

Additionally:

• Maybe there would be a limit of 6 people, with ever additional person an additional cost to rent.
• Of course, option for a custom PC compound would still be there if all tribulation are met.

[Khorm]

stuff, good stuff

People who got to be legendary went out and did legendary things and survived.  Against the odds.  There seems to be a current of wanting to accomplish something "meaningful", but also, if you will, being sure that it is going to be "this character" that does it.  So a perception that hunkering down and not doing the things that make a character legendary will lead to that.  When part of the premise on our side is not everyone is going to make it, that you can't determine at the front end if a character will get things accomplished.  That the game isn't about succeeding, it is about overcoming (or not) the challenges.

I can appreciate this perspective and I think it's a healthy take on the game; I've always thought of it as something like a "roguelike". I think the issue in my mind comes from the fact that it doesn't feel like it's reflected at the ground level.. there's this dissonance of vision between higher game concepts and core gameplay.

Samos was maybe a shitty example because for better or worse you can't actually do that anymore. the band of possibilities has narrowed and the time investment has lengthened to the point where doing anything meaningful means an incentive to play extremely safe. then you're not legendary, you're just a boring, two rl old PC that hasn't done shit except outlive competition. maybe there needs to be some mechanics or story elements added that encourage moving outside of safe territory and into more dramatic or dangerous elements?

as far as why there's the "be meaningful streak" - idk. i don't have super concrete ideas about this stuff and I don't think any one demographic of staff or player is responsible for it, but I do think it's valuable to consider/think about/discuss the topic.

also it's possible that my read of things is lacking, or more likely that it's super narrow in perspective. maybe it's working for more people than the conversation seems to suggest.