Content and creation

[Brytta Léofa]

The only change to spice it needs are:

• It needs to last way longer. (2 IC days at least)
• Make snorting or smoking it an hemote that doesn't break hide.
• increase the prices of war-spice accordingly(100-200sid)

Be nice if spice aroma would fade while offline; it lasts quite a while.

[JustAnotherGuy]

The only change to spice it needs are:

• It needs to last way longer. (2 IC days at least)
• Make snorting or smoking it an hemote that doesn't break hide.
• increase the prices of war-spice accordingly(100-200sid)

Be nice if spice aroma would fade while offline; it lasts quite a while.

Some good stuff here actually.  Spice could use a bit of a rework or at least clean up.  There is a lot of good potential there, but needs some more refinement to make it even better.

[BadSkeelz]

On multi-renting apartments (to Shabago):

A possible option:

If there are two people each renting one-room apartments in the same building, they could be allowed to share their apartments with each other. In this way, they could "convert" one of those apartments into workspace/storage area and use the other as a living room/sleeping area. There are some one-room apartments that might provide some interesting arrangements that way.

Each room would still have its own keyset - the ONLY thing that would change is that the two renters can share each of their combined two apartments.

This would just exacerbate apartment shortages, as two people now own two apartments. I'd rather have a half-dozen people squeezed in to one, interacting with each other (if not the wider game world) than that.

[worldofsand]

Strangle

Tie up

I'm a little leery of things like these as long as we have half-giants and their insanely overpowered subdue. There's also the issue that criminal PCs are basically forced to play with nosave arrest on in order to avoid instadeath from NPC soldiers, which in turn leaves them completely defenseless against PC soldier subdue. This has thus far been tolerable because unless a soldier subdues you right next to the jail, you have a lot of chances to flee as they begin to move you there. And if the subduer is out to kill you, attacking you breaks the subdue. If they can instead just start to strangle you or tie you up, that seems like it'll just be too easy for HGs and soldiers to effortlessly kill anyone without a very high flee skill. I'm in the camp that thinks the code handles certain things so poorly that we're better off without mechanics that revolve around those things. But then again, if staff comes up with a new coded function for arresting characters and divorces it from the subdue command, that would open up a lot of possibilities.

[Spiceoflife]

Smoking should break hide, and you shouldn't be able to snort it while fighting.

[Dresan]

More seriously, getting tossed on back into realism on just what these apartments are, versus how they're used - Eh. Not much a fan personally on this. I understand the theme of people living on top of one another, but as we already see tents/single room apartments being jammed with crates, cots, two couches and a tree dug up from the Grey Forrest just for two PCs and they're upset when capacity is met, adding a 3rd, 4th, 5th renter is just fuel to the fire. Further, it takes away a 'perk' to joining certain clans and there's a balance issue. Finally, accessible RP partners are fun for the game world. A mini indy clan that finds the two or three people they enjoy playing with gets sucked into the void of their 4-5 room apartment fortress, never to be seen again by the populace at large

I think clans should also stop providing those same fortresses that indies are not allowed to have.

There seem to be many apartment empty in Allanak mostly because most people are encouraged into clans where  either they cannot afford an apartment or are given theft free storage.

Instead of isolating these character from the rest of the game, why don't all clan just subsidize apartments buildings for their members. Forcing them to get one of these places for their storage needs. It would be nice to see apartments being highly contested commodities in Allanak.

Again as the game has changed and evolved, with area closures, class rework, skill and combat learning reworks, the perks which might have been modest for clans to have at one point are just getting outright nutty now.   Maybe closed off risk free hang outs and storage can be toned down?

[Hauwke]

Strangle

Tie up

I'm a little leery of things like these as long as we have half-giants and their insanely overpowered subdue. There's also the issue that criminal PCs are basically forced to play with nosave arrest on in order to avoid instadeath from NPC soldiers, which in turn leaves them completely defenseless against PC soldier subdue. This has thus far been tolerable because unless a soldier subdues you right next to the jail, you have a lot of chances to flee as they begin to move you there. And if the subduer is out to kill you, attacking you breaks the subdue. If they can instead just start to strangle you or tie you up, that seems like it'll just be too easy for HGs and soldiers to effortlessly kill anyone without a very high flee skill. I'm in the camp that thinks the code handles certain things so poorly that we're better off without mechanics that revolve around those things. But then again, if staff comes up with a new coded function for arresting characters and divorces it from the subdue command, that would open up a lot of possibilities.

Unless someone actively teaches a HG the subdue skill, they have a bunch of trouble actually getting it to a point where you can't break out reliably.

That said, yeah that is a concern.

[AdamBlue]

Strangle:
When you have someone subdued, you can attempt the command, 'strangle'. It'll slowly start draining their stun, 'til they pass out, but at this point the strangled person gains a bonus to escape since the grasp is entirely focused on strangling them rather than holding them in a way that is easy to keep them pinned like with regular subdue. However, as one knows, it is quite tiring to try and break out of a subdue, so struggling too much can hasten your death. Sometimes, you shouldn't struggle as much to buy yourself time for your friends to get them off of you. Otherwise, fight for your life.

When their stun is drained, it'll start draining their movement points.
Once their movement points are drained completely, it'll begin draining their health until it goes to 1: To finish someone off, you need to use the 'kill' command to simulate a final deadly squeeze to either strangle the life out of them or to break their neck completely.

The higher the strangle skill, the more stun and mv you drain per 'tic'. However, the HP drain is fixed to be slightly slower. When you're out of air, it's only your endurance that will keep you from turning blue and dead.

Obviously, there may be more options to strangle from stealth as well, such as with a garrote or a rope in hand, that does not require a subdue first. Like a much slower, more intimate sap that may be easier to achieve due to it needing less precision than striking them on the temple with a club.

>strangle amos
You creep towards Amos, choking implement in hand...
You lash a rope around Amos' throat from behind, strangling him!
Amos gasps for air and struggles!
Amos gasps for air and struggles!
Amos jerks away from being strangled, heaving for air.
Amos runs to the west.
>think Damn.

[triste]

Strangle

Tie up

I'm a little leery of things like these as long as we have half-giants and their insanely overpowered subdue. There's also the issue that criminal PCs are basically forced to play with nosave arrest on in order to avoid instadeath from NPC soldiers, which in turn leaves them completely defenseless against PC soldier subdue. This has thus far been tolerable because unless a soldier subdues you right next to the jail, you have a lot of chances to flee as they begin to move you there. And if the subduer is out to kill you, attacking you breaks the subdue. If they can instead just start to strangle you or tie you up, that seems like it'll just be too easy for HGs and soldiers to effortlessly kill anyone without a very high flee skill. I'm in the camp that thinks the code handles certain things so poorly that we're better off without mechanics that revolve around those things. But then again, if staff comes up with a new coded function for arresting characters and divorces it from the subdue command, that would open up a lot of possibilities.

I think it's telling that the only scene in which I've had a character tied up was also a scene in which they were perrained.

Humanity has had ropes and have used ropes/restraints for time immemorial in warfare and other contexts, yet this usage is rarely seen in game... because the mechanic arbitrarily doesn't exist.

So, escru herders, you can perraine dart your escru when you need to shear them rather than tying them up! JK, for escru you can "just roleplay it out." Need to tie up your escru while shearing them, just RP it out, argument works, nice!

However, in scenes of conflict you can't "just roleplay it out." You need the code, or else it isn't going to happen. And in fact, in years of playing, the only time I did see it happen was, ironically and hilariously, when perraine was involved, because that provided the code mechanic actually making it possible.

In one of humanity's very first pieces of storytelling, the Odyssey, Hector is tied up to a chariot and dragged around the walls of Troy.

Here in Armageddon we have the chariot, we have the walls, we have the warfare... but no widely available restraint code, oops! So you can re-enact all of that scene, and other common dramatic scenarios like it, except... you can't. Rope is for ERP emotes climbing only.

[HeeBeeGB]

That the Iliad, tho.

[triste]

That the Iliad, tho.

Thanks for trolling correcting me, and you further proved my point because the Iliad came before the Odyssey. So there you go, one of Europe's very first piece of literature and by many definitions the first.

You can do literally the DEFINITION and ORIGIN of the word Epic, Iliad grade epic drama, except that one part.

And oh, all 2351412514123 pieces of literature with that -- not that either.

You can enjoy the very code mechanic we are asking for in perraine, but not in this context because... no good reason given.

DAT ILLIAD THO

[HeeBeeGB]

I agree rope in its most primitive use was probably 'I can climb that thing' at about the same time it was 'I can kill that motherfucker with this'.

+1 to Strangle
+1 to Hog-Tie

[mansa]

I think there has been enough time with the new classes and subclasses to investigate whether they are functioning as designed.

I have a few suggestions and some tweaks:

Minstrel to have the language perk (if it already has it, the help file needs to be updated)
Wastelander to have advanced ride and search.
Master Crafter to get tool making
Master Jeweler to get tool making
Marksman to get Dying
Roughrider to get Direction Sense and Pain Tolerance.

House Servant to get Journeyman Scan

[ShaiHulud]

I've been brewing ideas a while and with new mount feeding code and such, and with this thread, I am inspired to lay them out. Likely some have been presented before. I think these could tie in with the great ideas above regarding mounts.

1. Wear locations on mounts for the display of scars/markings
2. A scar/dismemberment room you can access with your mount, to add various things to location. Examples:

<on body> a wyvern branding
<on back> two long jagged scars
<on shell> some acid scarring/a broken section/
<on leg/legs> a broken end/a missing leg
<on head/face> A missing eye/a scarred snout

3. Places to sell stolen mounts, not just butchering them.
4.Affecting mounts with spiced foods.

"I don't care what you call him, now, that's my fucking Inix"
"Oh my Krath, that's Spot! Someone stole him last month!"
"Horse thieves with be shot with a deadly bolt!"

[Kyviantre]

Minstrel to have the language perk (if it already has it, the help file needs to be updated)

It does not, or did not as of November 2019 when I asked for confirmation via request according to Brokkr (while trying to pick between it and Bard), when the language perk was the thing I was most interested in.  Without that perk, it feels vastly underweighted in comparison to its non-karma-requiring counterpart!

Marksman to get Dying

...I really hope that is an unfortunate typo/misspelling...

[Dresan]

I think there has been enough time with the new classes and subclasses to investigate whether they are functioning as designed.

I have a few suggestions and some tweaks:

Minstrel to have the language perk (if it already has it, the help file needs to be updated)
Wastelander to have advanced ride and search.
Master Crafter to get tool making
Master Jeweler to get tool making
Marksman to get Dying
Roughrider to get Direction Sense and Pain Tolerance.

House Servant to get Journeyman Scan

Another new thread for feedback on classes and sub-guilds now that time has passed would be great especially given all the game changes that have impacted them(example: there is now always a chance to dodge,etc).

 

[Evilone]

Remove a lot of free food options from noble estates and GMH compounds etc. Make sure these clan specific recipes are craftable, so they aren't lost, or perhaps posted to each clan board so they are a bit more accessible, or they become available at a certain clan rank.

To allow for different playtimes and people not being able to meet up IG, allow food bin/storage items longer delay on food decaying while stored inside.

Good cooks would now be highly in demand, and definately a focuse of study at the Atrium to teach and master. The grocer type shops may sell to folk other than npcs, and hunters may be able to sell a bit more meat instead of leaving it to waste. Noble PCs might have a stronger desire to acquire exotic meats and food instead of just ask npc cook bahamet steak with ginka sauce.

[triste]

Remove a lot of free food options from noble estates and GMH compounds etc. Make sure these clan specific recipes are craftable, so they aren't lost, or perhaps posted to each clan board so they are a bit more accessible, or they become available at a certain clan rank.

To allow for different playtimes and people not being able to meet up IG, allow food bin/storage items longer delay on food decaying while stored inside.

Good cooks would now be highly in demand, and definately a focuse of study at the Atrium to teach and master. The grocer type shops may sell to folk other than npcs, and hunters may be able to sell a bit more meat instead of leaving it to waste. Noble PCs might have a stronger desire to acquire exotic meats and food instead of just ask npc cook bahamet steak with ginka sauce.

This is excellent not just for making the skills in demand, but it might introduce a need for "royal taster" type assistance as you no longer have an instantly trustworthy NPC just handing you food. What if someone snuck in and poisoned your food? Better have some flunkie taste it first, or have it cooked in front of you for your fancy dinner party. idk

[rinthrat]

I'm not a fan of the push to require PC interaction for absolutely everything. Why? That PC you need is unavailable for RL days at a time, more often than not. Sometimes for weeks at a time. This results in everyone that now needs that PCs service to twiddle their thumbs until that PC shows up, if they bother to play at all. Sure, you may have involved one more hunter/grebber/cook/merchant, but in the meantime you've also blocked a whole lot of RP for several other PCs. This may now never happen at all because everyone else involved just got tired of sitting around and waiting for one hunte/grebber/cook/merchant PC.

[Kyviantre]

Remove a lot of free food options from noble estates and GMH compounds etc. Make sure these clan specific recipes are craftable, so they aren't lost, or perhaps posted to each clan board so they are a bit more accessible, or they become available at a certain clan rank.

To allow for different playtimes and people not being able to meet up IG, allow food bin/storage items longer delay on food decaying while stored inside.

Considering how tight funding was the last time I was in such a clan, both for the head honcho and as a groundling, I'm not sure this is a good idea.  We were buying in a lot of exotic food (and non-exotic food), because eating the same thing was very dull, but that was on a 'I found this hunter and want to RP and spread the love and plot around', not a 'My supposedly higher society privileged character is starving and I am desperate for food'.

Finding people to do X can be hard, as an off-peak player AND putting a deadline on it by way of do-this-or-die...

I would rather see encouragement of expanding tastebuds, especially in nobles and high-ranking GMH people, without penalising their underlings (who make -considerably- less than indies do!).  It would be awful for immersion to have these big clans go "Whelp, half our people are starving because Bob and Phil haven't logged in since Saturday, and nobody has wanted to roll a hunter-type character who wants to socialise and provide us with 20 bits of chalton a RL day".  That is just plain stupid!

[Kyviantre]

I've been brewing ideas a while and with new mount feeding code and such, and with this thread, I am inspired to lay them out. Likely some have been presented before. I think these could tie in with the great ideas above regarding mounts.

1. Wear locations on mounts for the display of scars/markings
2. A scar/dismemberment room you can access with your mount, to add various things to location. Examples:

<on body> a wyvern branding
<on back> two long jagged scars
<on shell> some acid scarring/a broken section/
<on leg/legs> a broken end/a missing leg
<on head/face> A missing eye/a scarred snout

3. Places to sell stolen mounts, not just butchering them.
4.Affecting mounts with spiced foods.

"I don't care what you call him, now, that's my fucking Inix"
"Oh my Krath, that's Spot! Someone stole him last month!"
"Horse thieves with be shot with a deadly bolt!"

All I can think of is a rinthi chop shop that will re-spray your brown inix you pinched from Red Storm a fabulous hot pink so you can sell it to that tressy aide, so Bruno-the-raider doesn't realise that poor Stompy is now being called Princess Foo-foo!

I am down with mount customisation via scarring though, that'd be neat!

[Shabago]

Re-updated the sidebar thread. Let's give this one another 3 days? Then I'll close/do replies. From there, we can cycle back regarding additional feedback given.

[tiny rainbow]

The helpfiles I think are already linked from the game to the website so that the same files are kept updated between each, what could be interesting is if there was a website button that could auto-fill the current contents of the help file into the form for editing for a new Request category "Helpfile update suggestion" - I think that would be a good way to get stuff kept more current and with helpful little things that people tend to notice for new people (think and feel are missing from the new player guide on the website as well, they are both quite hidden)



(I posted similar about wagons on the release note discussion thread which has a lot of good ideas on sometimes there, about 2 months waaay back before anything about a new wagon-centric group)
Wagon combat! Try turn around the thing of such things being able to be used in a cheesy manner to avoid interactions with mekillots and other player characters, especially when no staff is around to allow them to be attacked since the only other alternative is to enter the wagon and kill the guard NPCs (I'm also figuring staff would expect to be told about killing "special" NPCs first maybe? Even though wagons are smaller without virtual crew?)

This would mean that wagons are awkward in a lot of ways by putting an unbalanced onus on the attacker to clear things with staff, unless the riders also need to notify staff in advance before moving wagons and arrange a time for wagon movements to be overseen, which could be a good idea (it's always through dangerous territory), they seem very cheese at the moment, it could be balanced out by making wagons more realistic to deal with from the outside to slow or stop them rather than silly memey just zooming past everything in the known due to it being an "object" rather than a NPC that can be attacked - Targeting rope connecting the harness, the wheels, making the puller NPCs stampede, or lighting the things on fire if people hit it enough times with a torch Make them like a boss monster!


Cart combat! Instead of having to incapacitate the pilot or every one of the animals to stop a cart (and everyone on it) moving (because you need to be able to ride it to be able to use the unharness command - the help files should also probably be updated for the elves to let them know if using the command for brief moments like that is allowed, as well as jumping on things with the intent of attacking and not riding on them, it's not clear lore-wise at the moment though there's this:
http://armageddon.org/help/view/Dune%20Stalkers

caravans that are hit by Dune Stalker raiding crews are usually unaware of danger until the first few bodies tumble off the wagon

Wagon+cart damage!
I think this would also add more RP business+plot hooks for people with the wagonmaking skill to repair them after they have been attacked maybe


Also maybe could also be a nice idea to put in the option to sabotage carts/wagons (with risk of it being noticed both during and after if someone takes the care to inspect the moving parts before setting off) if someone actually manages to jump on top of a moving cart to cut the harness, or infiltrate a wagon to disconnect moorings and such while they are on board making it unable to move again until it gets fixed and maybe need a rescue group to come - Fun chances for adventures and intrigue, rather than holes being the main nemesis of wagons

[Dresan]

Training pits.

We used to have something similar in Tuluk that was removed because people abused it. However it was really popular because it allowed indies and different clans to gather together in the same location to spar and RP. Frankly it generated a lot of fun especially when you were potentially stuck in a clan with no one to train with.

The game has changed a lot since then, and frankly even if someone were to sit there all day and night sparing random people all the time due to code changes at some point they would mostly be helping train the local newbies rather then themselves. If two people wanted to meet and spar all the time, well currently they can still rent an apartment and do so its a moot point.

The way I envision a training pit is that it would cost coins to use, maybe four training rooms. It would take advantage of the 'rent' command like in taverns. There would be a seating area above like a regular arena to view the fights too(this might be free), where people waiting to use the training rooms themselves can sit...and yell. Additionally the longer you spend in your current session, the more you need to pay extra the next time you want to use it, so staying there just to recover is going to cost you later.

If you enter these places its easy to flee in any direction but be careful who you enter with. It would be nice to see the act turning someone to a corpse making you wanted, but not attacking people. Regardless be careful who you enter with, accidents happen.

Pros:
-Yo! Another fun and useful money sink.
-Support for indies.
-We move away from groups sparring in tiny apartments.
-more fun RP and interaction!

Con
-I never figured out how exactly people were abusing the old arena but abuse happens. We should remove elves from the game because someone might want to ride stuff with them.
-Taverns become boring (UNLESS training pits are areas IN the taverns, in which case going to taverns becomes much more interesting.)

[triste]

-Taverns become boring (UNLESS training pits are areas IN the taverns, in which case going to taverns becomes much more interesting.)

Yeah I've been wanting to say this whole time that there's a great idea from a game very similar to Armageddon but not Armageddon where a fighting pit is inside the tavern. It means it's easy to duel people you argue with immediately, or practice in a fun and public way. People literally sip ale while people fight in the pit, it's jolly good fun.