How long should it take for a newb to acclimate and why it matters.

[ShaLeah]

Not everyone is looking for the kind of game that Armageddon is.  I am happy when Armageddon matches what a new player is looking for.  I don't shed a tear when it doesn't,...

Full disclosure:  I, too, am of the mindset that this game (Armageddon) is not for just anyone who wants to be in a roleplay intensive, text based and interactive environment. I am a PK advocate and think the world is a lot LESS harsh than it used to be.

Still the questions needs to be asked:

When did you 'get it'? How long did it take before you understood Zalanthas and enjoyed it more.

I know there are many other people who actually read the document or were faster studies, the unicorn first character peak isn't the norm for everyone so I am curious there is an average.
6 months?
A year?
Two?
Five?


Why does it matter?

Because we can't ASSUME that EVERY newb that walks/has walked away after death wasn't Zalanthas material.

...  however, as we are not looking to water down the experience, for example, by letting folks know "why" they were killed rather than sometimes having it be an eternal question mark.

And while I agree with Brokkr, I do not agree that letting a PLAYER know why they were killed is watering the experience down at all, on the contrary, I think it enriches player/game relations, enhances understanding, teaches world norms and it might spare the player a great amount of ooc angst. 

So what do you think? How long should it take the average newb to acclimate to the world?

For me there was a longggg learning curve because I didn't read the docs, which is why I came up with the Quickstart idea which would have saved me sooo much pc death and real life heartache in the beginning.

What are your thoughts?

[Riev]

I've been here 15 years, and I've been told I still don't get it.

I think in the past the Hack and Slashers were able to settle in because staff would animate some big tough enemy and show them that the game isn't just a loot-a-palooza, and any staff can do something like this.

It is more difficult when the issue is the RP side of things. Staff can help out, but unless they are ACTIVELY monitoring a situation, or getting to reports that mention it, they don't know. They can't animate to help out when they aren't around, and YOUR STAFF isn't always around. Shalooonsh can't help me if Rath is my admin, etc.

[Bogre]

It wasn't until my 3rd character (Tenneshi guardsman) that I really got it, maybe the 3 week->4 month mark. Clan members at the time were great and involved to help me learn the ropes.

But my first two rinthi elves had really good experiences with other players in game - that weren't terribly antagonistic. I remember a militia PC giving me some cactus rinds, finding some loot in the 'rinth, and a half-giant tossing me into a hole. No one tried to PK me or really be horrid, probably because I looked awfully new. But that was enough to get me hooked. My 3rd character was mercilessly betrayed and PK'd, but he had totally deserved it. But that was at the culmination of a lot of Winrothol/Tenneshi antagonism and in game conflict so, at that point, completely made sense to me and helped reinforce how great it was when stakes are high.

What probably wouldn't have helped? If what had happened to my 5th character, who was basically no-RP PK'd in a barracks immediately after joining a clan after maybe hitting the 3 hour played mark, happened on my 1st or 2nd. I'm pretty sure it was completely out of the blue (though I was told at the time there was 'some reason'). I was hugely mad and frustrated by that. I might have kept going, but then again, maybe not.

We don't really want to foster people of any one gamist type in the game. Get new players/characters involved, hooked, in some aspect of the game that fits them. It's fine to realize the game is harsh when your merchant is taken out by a rival, or your PC is caught in a nascent clan conflict that they've been involved in.

It's not really great to realize the game is harsh because your new character just gets mantis-headed for ineffable reasons. I think we as a community should strive to take other players, especially new ones, into consideration and be a place people love for its grittiness, rather than revile for being unapproachable.

[Lizzie]

It took me to the end of my first character to get *enough* of the nuances to realize that I wanted to stick around. You don't have to be fully acclimated, I don't think. You just have to be acclimated enough. My first character lasted I believe 3 RL months. She was assassinated by the Guild boss, it was a contracted hit by another PC. She was also employed by the Guild at the time. So this was murder, corruption, and betrayal all in a single event. Triple-shot, and BOOM - I was hooked.

The reason why a character was killed is the same for ALL characters: wrong place, wrong time.

Death by gith? If your character had chosen to go somewhere else, he wouldn't have been killed by that gith.
Death by contraband? If your character had chosen to bring the spice to a different location, they would not have been caught bringing it in "there." (wherever "there" happens to be).
Death by politics? if your character had chosen not to be in the bar just when the templar was looking for a target, that character would not have been killed by the templar's henchmen.
Death by random raider? If your character had just taken a different route, he would not have been stopped by -that- raider.
Death by revenge? If your character had not put himself in the direct path of a vengeful person, he would not have been assassinated.

And so on and so forth.

[DesertT]

I've been playing since the last century and I'm ashamed to say that it wasn't until this current character I'm on, that I feel like I'm coming close to getting it.  I even just recently had a four-year break.

I -really- enjoyed the harsh reality of it, but didn't apply that reality as often as I should have to my own character.  Quite often, I still forego a bit of RP for the sake of trying to up a skill point.

I would (and still do) have bouts with just trying or doing something for the sake of trying or doing it and not so much for the sake of the RP/story.

I had a Borsail Aide years back that broke into the Tuluki pyramid, all the templar apartments, stole a ring right off that sleeping NPC white robe lady, returned to Nak and turned it all over to my Lady Borsail as some sort of accomplishment.  Didn't wish up before doing it.  DEFINITELY didn't wish up WHILE doing it.  And waited until 3 AM Server to do it.

My mindset just wasn't right even though I had played for over ten years at that point.

I think for each individual person it will be different.

Thanks again to all the staff and players that have put up with me and my characters.

I appreciate you all!!

[titansfan]

I started having fun 2 characters in because when I was introduced to the game I was told "Everything wants to kill or eat you basically". It was also the point I got more attuned to the commands and such.

I just recently 'found' my new way of understanding the game and although its more stressful as I'm more invested, it is also rewarding to see what I'm doing as helpful in adding to stories, giving support,  and otherwise 'building' for the game. I've definitely swung for rp way more heavily these days and pk is only used for heavy handed situations.

My two cents. Time frame differs for everyone.

[Armaddict]

What are your thoughts?

I think people are just nitpicking the words of Brokkr more than anything, the sentiment isn't exactly a strange one.  We all acknowledge that this is a hard game and can be frustrating, and I don't think there's any way to truly tell how long it will take someone to acclimate.

For example, even the knowledge of why you died...we can keep talk about it romantically and all pretty and nice, but frankly, I've had the discussion enough times to know that's not how it normally goes.  It normally goes:
"Why did you kill me?"
"Oh, this happened and I was told this, and I was worried about this/trying to do this, and you were a casualty." (I chose this specifically because there are explainable IC events, this is like the best of the best, where you are part of another character's goal as an obstacle)
"That's stupid, why didn't you do this instead?"  or "I don't think that constitutes a good reason for you to kill my character." or even "Bullshit, you're a shit roleplayer."

Point being, even for veterans, the reasoning doesn't always help.  It doesn't even seem to help a majority of the time.  Most of the time it just gives you more things to argue about just as vehemently as we argue about good and bad practices of stealth, or the mechanics of archery.

Now a newbie, given that same information, can be completely at a loss and decide that they don't like the game based off that, but we're in the same boat.  Or they can embrace early on that this game deletes characters.

Edited to add:  It's a process, the acclimation to the game.  We gain good roleplayers because of it, we gain bad players because of it.  We lose good roleplayers because of it, and we lose bad players because of it.  A surefire 'way to help them stay' is just as difficult as making a game where all facets of enjoyment are equally available to participate in.  And we've been trying to do that for yeeeeeeaaaaaars.

[Kyviantre]

My first character ever died when the person in the Gaj who was helping me via the OOC command with learning how to play on my very first log-in, suggested we go somewhere more private to avoid bothering other players.  I went with them to their apartment, when they ganked me for my newbie coin.  Saying 'ooc Welcome to Armageddon!' just before I died.  Never even stood a chance, I didn't even know how to unsheathe a weapon, let alone combat commands.

I forget why I tried again.  I can be damn stubborn at times, and, while very much less jaded, I guess I realised that this was probably not a typical scenario.

It was a -terrible- way to 'welcome' someone to the game.  That mix of OOC 'helpfulness' and murder was ridiculously predatory.

Thankfully this happened...15 years ago now?  About that.  I acclimatised fairly quickly, by about character 4.  But I have taken some hiatuses, and mostly it is re-learning the Arm-specific commands that is taking me time to re-acclimatise, the setting seems much the same.

But I do tend to play risk adverse and non-murdery characters (not to say people around me don't get highly murdery, but if I'm consulted/instigating, I will try not to be - and an NPC trumps a PK if it is just 'a dead body' required).

By my blind Tor Scorpion though, I was vaguely getting a handle on politics, or at least feeling the -effects- of them.  Rather than bimbling randomly into deaths without at least some level of warning.  Not to say post-that deaths were always fair, but I usually had -some- noticable thread of "I did X, it got fed into the machine of player motivations, and Y popped out and blatted me in the face for it", rather than seeing no chain between the two at all.

[HavokBlue]

I was an IRE player and folks on the MKO board lamenting the lack of RP mentioned Armageddon. They said it's a game that will kill you and your PC will be lucky to survive a week.

I promptly rolled up a Rinthi elf and died in a few hours.

So I rolled up another one, and managed to run into Worms and the Jaxa Pah. And they didn't have to take pity on my newbie ass, but they did. They brought me in to the game and showed me how rich it can be. I died after about a month, but I was feeling very proud of myself after everyone told me my PC wouldn't make it a week.

My third PC sold me on Armageddon. I was still a clueless idiot, and rolled up a half-elf warrior named Iroku, thinking I was going to join the AoD. I found the sergeant, and he laughed at me, beat me, and dumped me outside the city. I wandered into the Salt Flats expecting to die, realizing my PC concept wasn't going to work. A Red Fang named Two Moons found me, and after fucking with me for a bit told me to wait in the middle of the storm. He came back an IG-day later with a war beetle and a waterskin, and gave me vague instructions to Luir's Outpost. Told me if I made it, I might be smart enough to join up with a dwarf raider who's name escapes me.

For a real-life week, I would log in and sit in the Storm's End, trying to find the raider. Finally, I did. In the form of a rumor board post announcing he'd been executed by the Kuraci Fist. Right at the same time, I found Sergeants Thuler and Raisa-di Kurac. They brought my newbie breed into the Kuraci Fist, and surrounded by a great group of PCs (the immortal Rink was relatively young at this point!) I learned the ropes of the game. I learned which parts of the game world to fear. I learned to never go out into the desert without two skins, a rope, and a backup torch. I learned to flee instead of disen during sparring.

The part that really stood out to me was a simple patrol with Sergeant Raissa, when she taught my PC the old names for the different gates of Luir's Outpost. Those were PCs! How cool was that? It felt like my PC was inhabiting a living world, with a living history. It was the coolest thing. That PC ended up living about 6 months before I stored them to try a spec app and I was hooked by that point.

The best thing we can do when we see new players is to try to put them into the sort of situations we all would have been excited to play when we started.

[Armaddict]

The best thing we can do when we see new players is to try to put them into the sort of situations we all would have been excited to play when we started.

I will note...some new players are so good you don't recognize them as a new player.  Just throwing that out there.

By and large though, this is correct.  But at the time that I started playing, it was largely staff events (not huge RPT's, just staffers messing around and making things happen) and inter-clan intrigue that had 0 understanding of but got to be told that I was in danger, to be careful, to try and get this task done.  Being swept up in things I didn't understand wasn't poor for me, it was exciting as hell.

[JohnMichaelHenry]

Fun reminiscing. I can say, as a long time player, that my PC's are very rarely PK'ed. The times that it happened, or an attempt happened, it was either well role-played or I won. Most of the time, people will RP a scene and just try to take what I have without killing me. Once, I even got reprimanded for killing someone by accident, and once, in a gritty alley scene, fight to the death scenario, I screwed up at the end with a boring corpse loot. Staff did notice that, and made a note on my account for it.

To answer the question though, it's sort of difficult to say exactly when I got Armageddon. I don't know if I really do now. I have always enjoyed coming up with new character concepts and seeing how far they can get, and still put my PC's at incredible risk sometimes in hopes to make a story worth telling if I survive. But I have, ever since my very first PC that walked off the shield wall, absolutely loved the atmosphere of this game. It's by far the best MUD I've ever played and I played a lot. I still believe that, even though it's a combination of setting, code and players that make a MUD great, this one is great mostly because of the people that play here. You guys are awesome.

[JBlack]

It might seem a little nitpicking over the "tears" statement. Wrote what I felt compelled to write, and that's that. On topic about of new player hooks, it's when a char meets some Koman Locke and gets taken for an exciting adventures, knowing a mistakes means they lose everything. Permanent death ought to be the ultimate hook and risk during these. So, 1 great in game mentor or friend is the best thing for showing exciting and brutal stuff. alternatively try to make them enemies in a meaningful way, mug em in a way that lets them grow into the game. Giving a new player something to hate about the world and try to overcome was also compelling. Then, then there's moment you realize you can't ever win...

[Dar]

My first character walked into a tavern and got beckoned by some woman to a private room. I followed. Where she insisted to have sex with me. We did, where I basically just stood dumbfounded while she spammed emotes and eventually told me to sleep. I slept and she cleaned out my noobie coins and split.

From that moment I was hooked. I played other muds before. I played heroes, I played villains on these muds and each time these roles were ... Epic. I don't mean epic - good, but epic as in grandiose. If I was a villain, I'd be playing a necromancer out to subjugate the world. If I played a hero, I'd be slaying dragons.

Then I enter a mud where harm was done to me. But it wasn't a villain, but just a simple human, roleplaying out a character. Her evil deeds were about personal survival. The theme of the world where people do evil things when they are desperate, poor, starving, forced, or are simply in a bad mood excited me. Complicated characters and complicated motivations.

So I wondered around and somehow some woman took me under her wing. I think she was a GMH agent, I forget. She dressed me up a little and gave me a few tasks, promising to see the next day. As I wondered, I stumbled into the rinth and promptly died.

Holy shit, I thought to myself. I promised that woman I'd see her tomorrow. She's relying on me! This can't be over. seriously? No resurrection? The end?

The sensation of loss and guilt on standing up my would be employer and realization that a mud can seriously invoke these feelings in me?  Fuck. I was hooked.

If that character did not get the experiences he did. If only good things happened to him. I might've actually moved on. I really disliked the syntax of the game and it's code seemed far out dated compared to so many other muds.

[Zalanthan]

For me, each death has taught me something important.  I have had seven prior PCs: two were stored and five died.  Three out of those five were to PKs.  [Full Disclosure: I have never tried to PK anyone in this game yet, but I absolutely love PK]

I thought I was prepared for the game before I even joined.  I knew I was looking for a permadeath RPI MUD, I read tons of the documentation before chargen, and once I began I think I read every help file in the index.   The descriptions of the setting were enough to discourage my first PC (a ranger) from venturing outside of the city walls alone, so he eventually was hired by House Kadius.  Their newb-friendly veteran hunters showed him the ropes IC, and the game's complicated syntax comes pretty quickly when you have others to interact with.  Then I started getting brazen and sometimes venturing out by myself, disregarding the documentation's many warnings about the dangers of doing so.  My luck ran out and he died alone to an NPC beast.  I was fine with the death code-wise, but was unprepared for the flood of emotions that came with it.  How could I be so foolish? I'll never get to say goodbye to my friends! Will anyone remember me?  As Dar said so well: "Fuck.  I was hooked."  That first PC lasted for just over a RL month.  The lesson I learned from my first death: travel alone, be ready to die.

My second PC lasted for over a RL year, and is probably my favorite to date (Baqir, Left Hand to Midge, if anyone remembers those PCs from over a decade ago).  He died in the middle of a HRPT, instakilled by a fellow clanmate who tried to pull off a backstab mid-battle but accidentally used a keyword that our opponent happened to share with my PC.  Even though the mistake was acknowledged as fully OOC, it was in front of numerous PC witnesses and our improvised story continued on (too hard to retcon, so no resurrection).  I may have wanted Baqir to survive the battle, or to sacrifice himself for his clan, or to die looking like the badass he was, or even just to die for any reason at all, but that's not what happened.  Losing my favorite PC to an OOC mistake was very difficult at first, but I mourned him and eventually moved on.  The lesson I learned from my second death: unspectacular deaths happen, hold on lightly.

My third PC lasted for about six RL months (easier since this was my first crafting and city-focused PC).  He had a large network of relationships and ultimately even a PC cousin, and the two were making real progress in their plans to finance their first trade caravan from Tuluk to Allanak.  Then one day, getting ready for the big trip, I couldn't find my cousin so I decided to scout the first leg of the journey alone.  En route, a mounted PC entered, charged me down, and killed me in two rounds of combat - no dialogue.  I immediately submitted my first and only complaint, upset that the death involved no words and no emoting.  I regretted doing so once I remembered the first and second lessons. A Raider does not owe me a better death than a Raptor.  And they are reinforcing the game's fundamentals - it is a dangerous world, and incredibly dangerous to travel alone! I got over this death pretty quickly because I felt my PC's life had mattered, and that their absence was felt.  My PCs death can generate roleplay (funerals, investigations, revenge, lost hopes, etc.) even if I don't get to participate in it directly.  The lesson I learned from my third death: a meaningful death really comes from a meaningful life.

[Lizzie]

Zalanthan those are great lessons to learn from those stories. And yes I do vaguely remember Baqir.

On the third lesson though, I would not have felt any regret in submitting the player complaint. I'd consider it a heads up to staff to look into the scene and ensure there was some kind of roleplay to support it. Even if I didn't get to observe or participate in the RP, the killer should. Whether a lead-up to the moment, or using thinks, or taking advantage of a bounty and therefore being part of a bigger "story" than you realized.  The staff might tell the player "hey that was a legit death but next time do us a favor and toss in an emote, shout or think or something, as soon as you see your next target or right after you're done chopping the mothafucka with yer bone sword?"

It'll help that player grow, to know that he can add to the story for himself in addition to anyone else.

[HavokBlue]

The best thing we can do when we see new players is to try to put them into the sort of situations we all would have been excited to play when we started.

I will note...some new players are so good you don't recognize them as a new player.  Just throwing that out there.

By and large though, this is correct.  But at the time that I started playing, it was largely staff events (not huge RPT's, just staffers messing around and making things happen) and inter-clan intrigue that had 0 understanding of but got to be told that I was in danger, to be careful, to try and get this task done.  Being swept up in things I didn't understand wasn't poor for me, it was exciting as hell.

Very much this.

[senseofeven]

I acclimated quite quick because I asked questions be it helper channel, forums or IG when I started. Sometimes staff animated to punish us heavily if we did naughty things in the tavern booths or experienced players giving subtle hints on why it didn't sync with the world documentation.

I think as long as players new and old know, you can die at anytime so just enjoy the unseen conspiracies and hope it was a good run.

[Harmless]

I've played this game for >10 years and still it terrifies me enough at times to get into a nervous sweat. I get incredibly invested in the storylines and I make mistakes people would call newbie ones every so often still. I would say I barely acclimated. I can never fully acclimate because the culture constantly shifts slightly with the movements of players' forceful and endearing personalities moving from side to side in constant flux. There is never a break from the insanity. If you feel fully 'comfortable' in this game then you aren't really getting the full experience. When you get invested in another character's welfare in particular, prepare for the waterworks...

[Dracul]

I've played this game for >10 years and still it terrifies me enough at times to get into a nervous sweat. I get incredibly invested in the storylines and I make mistakes people would call newbie ones every so often still. I would say I barely acclimated. I can never fully acclimate because the culture constantly shifts slightly with the movements of players' forceful and endearing personalities moving from side to side in constant flux. There is never a break from the insanity. If you feel fully 'comfortable' in this game then you aren't really getting the full experience. When you get invested in another character's welfare in particular, prepare for the waterworks...

Saaaame.

Too many of my pcs have died to the same coded situations over and over again. Like, don't I know better?

[Barsook]

I played for close to 12 years, off and on with two different forum and Arm accounts, and I feel that I haven't acclimated yet. But I learned many lessons over the years and even found that playing tabletop RPGs like D&D and Shadowrun helped me to get more vested into my characters and the world around them. Because before playing those games, I was majorly idea hoping where I stored left and right or died to quick deaths. I only really had one long lived character, Durik (13 in game years), and the rest I played for up to five in game years of those characters' lives.

I think Harmless is right, there will be always flux and maybe that's a good thing since Arm is a RPI.

[Reichling]

Seems to me you just gotta love the process and accept the fact you'll be making mistakes even after years of being invested.

[najdorf]

I played for over 15 years and I believe I havent truly been there with any of my characters. On the surface, all characters had their small personality traits that differ from one another, but deep within I always felt its my RL self dictating the true motivations and behaviors of all these characters. They were all a slightly modified version of myself. It is really tough to get into a character and be able to roleplay it truly. I admire all successful RP ers and especially actors and actresses, it is a challenging trait.

[Shaydee]

I still consider myself a newb at Armageddon to be honest, I made my first character Summer of 2017, and then didn't even play but a week or so before going almost a full real life year before jumping back in and playing that same character again. Then after some time I figured what the hell, I've played this, I wanna try something else, and learned more with that second character, and every character since I learn more and more.
I did read some of the documents in the very beginning but honestly, it felt VERY overwhelming. I've always been a do/play to learn kind of person, which is why I still think of myself as a newb. Because there is a LOT of information about what a characters basic knowledge of things would include. Since then I have read more documents, and still feel like I have A LOT more to learn (I mean, like A LOT).

Even just within the past few weeks the idea of the VNPCs and the virtual aspect of Zalanthas has truly dawned on me. (Maybe not truly, but definitely somewhat dawned on me).

It doesn't help that I tend to get self-conscious if I don't know something that I should know in character, and I'm like damn, should have read MORE documents.

As far as PK, I have not experienced it yet, at all, but I'm sure I will at some point, and I can only hope for a neat RP scenario!

I love playing Armageddon though, I was introduced to Harshlands and Armageddon at the same time and Armageddon is the one I stuck with. My husband has been trying to get me into a Star Wars MUD and all I keep asking him is, but is it like Armageddon? Which obviously the answer is no.

Oh another thing I am not quite sure of is sending in reports on your character? Is there any documentation on that somewhere? Like, is it just for leadership roles? What is included in these? I'm not sure I will ever be ready for a leadership role, but I'd like to learn more in case I do ever work up the courage to try one out (Maybe in like 5+ years or something ).

[mansa]

I don't believe it takes a certain amount of time, but it happens after an experience


They need to have a character they enjoy playing, to have your character's friends in game do some fun event, and then have their character die a horribly tragic death.

After you shed your first tears, you're in.

[ArmaJunkie]

I don't believe it takes a certain amount of time, but it happens after an experience


They need to have a character they enjoy playing, to have your character's friends in game do some fun event, and then have their character die a horribly tragic death.

After you shed your first tears, you're in.

Not even kidding! Totally happens. I concur.