Roleplaying theft?

[Hauwke]

All I ask for, is a few hemotes here and there. And no, its not so I can detect your pc, I rarely ever roll a PC with scan at any rate. No, I ask for hemotes because that is what I would do. Reciprocation is important to maintaining a working relationship within the game. At the end of the day, you aren't stealing from a player, you are stealing from some random on the street and that isn't the players fault.

Conversly, people need to chill the fuck out when someone steals their 5 sid gith knife from their belt. Dude, calm, it is literally the cheapest item in the game.

[Nameless Face]

All I ask for, is a few hemotes here and there.

Why don't you ask for semotes, instead?  It was quite literally created for these purposes. It doesn't echo inappropriate meta-knowledge to other PCs who shouldn't be getting it.

[John]

I can't really get behind this kind of stance, and I find it to be a problematic one at that. Promotion of lacking roleplay isn't good for the game. Despite what some people think, Staff isn't always watching.

Failing to emote isn't failing to roleplay. Plenty of roleplay can happen without a single emote.

That said, the steal command does an emote to be appended on and that is more then sufficient to describe how the theft attempt is happening.

[John]

It's almost like the lawlessness of the sands makes it harder to exist, whereas within the city you can get away with a grey area of behavior, kept dubiously safe by a brutal and merciless Templarate that doesn't tolerate anyone else exercising power.

It'd be cool if there was a game where the cities had that as a major part of their theme.

Yes but tell me, say there are no Templar PC's on.  Or they are doing some Templary thing in their golden tower?

Or the Arm is all asleep.

Is your suggestion to tell the nearest soldier of tektolnes about the theft?

Hell no. Contact the thief and ask for some coin to keep quiet. Screw helping whoever got stolen from.

[Armaddict]

You can attack anyone who is crimflagged without gaining a crimflag.

[John]

You can attack anyone who is crimflagged without gaining a crimflag.

This was not true back in 2002. I don't know whether or not it's true today. I've only lost one character to this code quirk. If it has been updated that's awesome.

[Armaddict]

Most definitely true.  Was also true in 2002.  I don't know the circumstance of your lost character, but this is tried and true.

Just don't do it to someone who's already subdued and being dragged to jail, everyone will just call you a twink for that, cuz the feelbads are real.

[Cerelum]

You can attack anyone who is crimflagged without gaining a crimflag.

I too have died to soldiers and/or been arrested for attacking folks who failed to steal from me.

It would be interesting to know if this is in fact true, I'm gonna have to start walking around with my weapons out and give it a try next time.

[Hauwke]

All I ask for, is a few hemotes here and there.

Why don't you ask for semotes, instead?  It was quite literally created for these purposes. It doesn't echo inappropriate meta-knowledge to other PCs who shouldn't be getting it.

Alright, that was a mistake. I meant to write semotes.

[Armaddict]

Not every failed steal attempt results in a crimflag, even in populated areas.

'You get caught!  People notice, but then look away.'

Or something like that.

Edit:  Also, be careful if you have scan and they're hidden.  This nuance is not super familiar to me, and I know that there can be mixups with 'assist' order in the case of npc's.  i.e. Assist the one who got attacked over pursue crimcode.  It's a very dangerous area, but some of us took risks because the 'oh no you din't' was stronger than the fear of crimcode, and I've taken that risk as recently as 2015 or so.  I've killed people in the Gaj knowing I could hold off soldiers long enough to finish the fight, flee, and be taken to jail to tell a templar 'They stole from me.'  Note that templars will generally not be happy about the law being taken out of their hands.

Part of the advantage of playing 'back in the day' was that hide used to break while moving room to room unless you were shadowing someone, even if you were sneaking.  So you -had- to deal with crimcode, and had to deal with the prospect of fighting through soldiers to get to a safe place.  Since you had to deal with it, you had to be at least somewhat familiar with it.  Hell, I can remember when patrolling npc's started and how big of a boon it was, because you could learn which npc's to shadow to move from here to there without breaking your hide.

Like I said, it's not particularly liked, but I feel with some context and responsibility, you really should shed the idea that you're just completely helpless to defend yourself from shady sorts.  Shady people know they're taking risks.  Or they should, anyway.

[maxid]

Also, as I mentioned before, the Templarate/AoD do not want your PC to feel like they can execute people in the street.  That's the sole purview of the AoD/Templarate.  This is intentional.  This is how brutal dictatorships work.

You're not meant to be able to show off your carefully min-maxed hack/riposte/chopping (master) in the middle of a city.  That's not to theme.

[Armaddict]

Kind of a digression that I went on there, just a response to the 'you can't attack them' thing.

The OP was more concerned about the roleplay involved, and so I'd reiterate what was said in my first post to keep on topic.

[LindseyBalboa]

Worrying about crim code and losing your character seems to be at conflict with the desire to have more role-play involved. If your character would attack someone who stole from them, or who they witnessed stealing from someone else, then just do it. If your character is more worried about soldiers arresting/killing them, then report it to someone else if the theft is seen. It seems to me that the thief in this example has already done their part in playing their role.

[Cerelum]

Either way, whether I lose my character or not.  I am waiting for the next thief to steal from me now.  Weapons in hand.  Crime code, who needs it!

[Miradus]

All I ask for, is a few hemotes here and there.

Any of which carries a good chance of being noticed, getting you watched, then causing you to fail the actual steal and immediately either being carted off to jail or killed by the guards. What you are asking for is unreasonable as hell.

For every 'bad criminal' story anyone can give, I can give you back five 'bad victim' stories.

How about the guy who never saw a single thing yet gave the Arm the complete sdesc of the first rinther he saw? Or the templar who believed him and hauled the protesting rinther to the cuddler to be ripped apart? Or the guy who got knocked out in the street in one hit with a sap from hiding, yet suddenly someone in a completely different city Way'd the mugger threatening to kill them if they harmed the victim? Or the literally DOZENS of people who have the ability in the dead of the night to see past your dark hooded cloak and your face wrap to give your complete long description to the guards? Or the 5-minutes-out-of-chargen character whose knife you just tole off their belt and every templar, Byn sergeant, three nobles, and all the Jade, as well as two sponsored role characters in Luir's suddenly are threatening you and putting a 10 large bounty on your head?

I'm sorry, but I don't trust the playerbase NEAR enough to be giving up any hemotes when there's no risk to them and ALL the risk to me. That's the bottom line. You're asking for something that thieves and criminals don't get back in return. Literally every criminal character is simply a ticking time bomb of mantis head waiting to explode once they're known as a thief, a burglar, or mugger.

[Hauwke]

I don't trust the player base enough either, countless times have a I done something and people merely spam a coded response until they succeed.

Learn to lose people. That goes for both sides.

[Strongheart]

Have to agree with you both, the risk for flavor is often the end of said character in this circumstance. Truly has to do with the impatience of the playerbase (which can go either way, I regret not being impatient enough and giving cheeseballs time to spam away) and fear of the expected.

I once attempted to mug someone and had them at odds, both of us RPing away before an emoteless twink arrived with a sap! Luckily, I had nosave combat on so I managed to easily flee while getting a say and emote off.

Disappointing to find out later there was a mob of players nearby that my character narrowly avoided, it was enjoyable but I totally understand that distaste for hemoting - for once your character dies in that way, your adventure ends with a foul taste in the mouth.

Hate to say it but I've seen too many characters outlive their stay on more than one occasion, nauseating enough to just say: nah, no more 👎 which I admit is a sad conclusion to make. Playing too safe just isn't something I admire! Risk takers on the other hand I do, at least then they have earned the benefit of the doubt and may live further for risky storymaking.

I actually could care less for PvP buuut after some unsatisfying situations, I'm at the same point where you two are! Kill first, ask questions later *edginess intensifies*.

[Strongheart]

Further: isn't being Templar'd the worst?!

[Dar]

It's funny. First we get threads at how weak celves are and they needed more coded advantage. Now there's talk of how powerful they are at stealth and thievery.

[John]

It's funny. First we get threads at how weak celves are and they needed more coded advantage. Now there's talk of how powerful they are at stealth and thievery.

Serioously. We've got people playing a (according to the GDB) unplayable race and people are bitching because they're not getting 20 attempts at spotting the thief per steal command

[Krath]

It's funny. First we get threads at how weak celves are and they needed more coded advantage. Now there's talk of how powerful they are at stealth and thievery.

Serioously. We've got people playing a (according to the GDB) unplayable race and people are bitching because they're not getting 20 attempts at spotting the thief per steal command

I feel like everyone just wants their PC to live forever and never lose anything based on the comments in this thread and other threads and it is honestly confusing to me.

Maybe that thief DOES h/semote, you just do not see it.

The game is not intended to be fair or equal for the players. Every selection and choice has pros and cons.

Don't want to get stolen from? Do not wear or flaunt around in expensive shit.

What do you do when you get stolen from? If you can afford expensive gear that attracts thieves you can bribe people. That includes all PC's of the AOD, Guild, celf thief clans, player run clans etc.

No, PC on to bribe? Run to the nearest npc and wish up, RP a scene, wait for an animation. If there is not an animation, send ing your log via request tool.

Like in real life, do not expect immediate results, but expect the thief to be dealt with in time. This works about 60-70% of the time and creates RP for many people.

Just please stop asking staff to nerf the game to shit. This is a harsh, desert environment in a dog eat dog world.

[ghanima]

Since time immemorial players have been outraged over being stolen from. Almost more than being pkilled even! There's something deeply, personally upsetting about thieves to the Armageddon player. But...

Emoting does not = RP (same with semoting and hemoting). It's verbal decoration. Add to this the fact that it is codedly possible to make yourself 100% steal proof if you apply a few simple measures. You can literally cockblock the hell out of thieves to the point that they are powerless. Imagine if there was a clever coded way to make it so mages can't cast spells on you. Imagine the conversation we'd be having then. If we're going to talk about what's overpowered, I'd start with the fact that you can nullify a thief's primary skill from ever working. That seems pretty overpowered to me.

[oggotale]

How does one RP without emotes. I can't imagine a book being even slightly, little, interesting if it reads like a repetitive jumble of pre-set sentences. Does good roleplay not manifest as good writing?

But alright, I think I do get what sort of conception of roleplay folks who say that have, in some sense. That being said, I find that semotes and hemotes / solo-emotes help "get me in the mood" of the character and immersed in him (even if telling a good story as would be described in a good book ISN'T the main goal).

[Riev]

How does one RP without emotes. I can't imagine a book being even slightly, little, interesting if it reads like a repetitive jumble of pre-set sentences. Does good roleplay not manifest as good writing?

Emotes. Thinks. Feels. These are all things we use to roleplay our character's actions and thoughts, get us in the mood, and help round out the believability that they are a real person.

Kill. Bash. Backstab. Steal. Poison. These are all things we use to roleplay our character's actions, get us in the mood, and round out the believability that they are a real person with real talents.

You do not NEED to emote, to roleplay being a thief, or a warrior, or a ranger. You don't NEED to do more than "nod" or "grunt". You don't need to do much to roleplay a character, Armageddon just gives you a lot of tools to help the narrative.

[maxid]

How does one RP without emotes. I can't imagine a book being even slightly, little, interesting if it reads like a repetitive jumble of pre-set sentences. Does good roleplay not manifest as good writing?

But alright, I think I do get what sort of conception of roleplay folks who say that have, in some sense. That being said, I find that semotes and hemotes / solo-emotes help "get me in the mood" of the character and immersed in him (even if telling a good story as would be described in a good book ISN'T the main goal).

Not a single person has disagreed with the idea that emotes are cool, useful tools for characterization.

They singular argument that's been presented is 'if you don't give my minmax'd scan character 18 chances to spot you so that I'm immune to your thievery, you're a bad, terrible rper.' 

That's been disagreed with, and its been pointed out that, within Armageddon, there's more to 'playing a role' than pretty emotes.