Magick Meat is BACK on the table!

[Dresan]

But subclass mages aren't some anemic magicker that has a 1/3 of the spells of a guild elementalist.

More like roughly 55%-75% of the spells, depending on the guild and subclass   

Another significant change. Wow.

I am guessing classes from mercantile/city  probably get the most spells while those further up the line of wilderness and city stealth classes get less and/or less OP combinations?

I have to say now these seem like 2-3 karma subguilds while the poor protector and even outdoorsman subclass weep. Hopefully this allows mudane classes to be reworked and move down to 1 karma while keeping the signifcantly more powerful magick subgulds at 2 karma

[gotdamnmiracle]

Ayyy. Appreciate the shout out, Brokkr. I think this will go a long way toward fixing the silliness with the Krathi touched. I trust you guys know what you're doing.

Please don't feel like your'e rewarding bad behavior with this change and the weapons skillgain cap change. I think it's great that staff is debating and deciding what to do with player input and look forward to see what the changes actually are.

[Marauder Moe]

[Brokkr]

Hmmm, I should have stopped and thought a bit more before I posted!

Touched are still anemic, sorry.  Aspects are the ones with that many spells.

By guilds, I mean the elementalist guilds, and by subclass, the Aspect elementalist subclass.  Depending on what original elementalist guild and new elementalist subclass you are comparing, the percentage changes.

[gotdamnmiracle]

Hmmm, I should have stopped and thought a bit more before I posted!

Touched are still anemic, sorry.  Aspects are the ones with that many spells.

By guilds, I mean the elementalist guilds, and by subclass, the Aspect elementalist subclass.  Depending on what original elementalist guild and new elementalist subclass you are comparing, the percentage changes.

Haha! Oh you.

[Dresan]

I think that it is a good change. There are people who enjoy playing magickers and this will make them happy.

Furthermore it seems to be balanced out by the class(guild) you pick and karma regeneration which prevents people from playing magicker back to back. And frankly if this means some people go so far as to even take game breaks in order to just play magick classes then so be it. 

The classes were a pretty damn good change too (though I still say infiltrator needs brew or disarm, but I digress) in that you give up a lot of upfront utility to pick a magick class. Losing direction sense as city class or even thief subclass as wilderness class is a hard trade off in my opinion.

As someone who doesn't like playing magickers as much hopefully this will allow all mundane subclass to be given a bit more love in the future.

(Wow. Really big buff to magickers)

[Dresan]

Depending on what original elementalist guild and new elementalist subclass you are comparing, the percentage changes.

I would assume there is more overlap in spells now too between the different aspects of the same elements? Are there different proficiency to spell level perhaps?

Curious to what mechanics have changed too, but probably too IC. I know two magick mechanics that made the subguilds rather annoying to play.

I haven't really used any karma in years now but even I am kinda tempted to see, though at I am also quite addicted to wilderness/city utility....

[PriestlySiren]

Ugh. Now to come up with a new character.

[Vex]

I'm a bit confused.

Are old "guild" magicks resurrected as options, or were the current ones expanded? Or were there new options added?

Are changes significant enough, that apps-in-waiting, should be revised?

[Cerelum]

Also, could the Staff update the helpfiles for magickers, to give them a little more info?

Maybe a little taste of what they can actually do now?

[Brokkr]

I'm a bit confused.

Are old "guild" magicks resurrected as options, or were the current ones expanded? Or were there new options added?

Are changes significant enough, that apps-in-waiting, should be revised?

emote looks at ~Vex, confused.

You know that full guild magickers from a code standpoint still exist?  Should be evident given that the long lived ones existed long after subclass magickers came into play.  What those magickers have, which are more or less what they always were, vs subclass Aspect magickers.

Like apps-in-waiting of subclass magickers?  Should be fine.

[Vex]

emote looks at ~Vex, confused.

You know that full guild magickers from a code standpoint still exist?  Should be evident given that the long lived ones existed long after subclass magickers came into play.  What those magickers have, which are more or less what they always were, vs subclass Aspect magickers.

Like apps-in-waiting of subclass magickers?  Should be fine.

I didn't know, there were still "old" guild magickers around, no.

But they're no longer options, so I was confused about magick guilds and subclass being mentioned as seperate... such. Does this mean, the "old guild" magickers are still being updated? Would that be for a potential re-release, or for simply the benefit of the remaining, if any, old ones?

And yes, I had an app made and approved some time ago, that is one of the listed magickers. I wanted to clarify, if I needed to revise, but it sounds like not.

By old ones, I mean the old guild, not Cthulhu and friends...

[Jihelu]

Brokr mentioned "Full guilds" because he was comparing the new subguilds to them, saying they have 50-70ish percent of their spells.

Meaning a subguild krathis may have 60ish percent of the spells a fullguild krathis WOULD HAVE HAD (or still has, assuming one is around).

That doesn't mean fullguild krathis are able to be app'd in.

[Brokkr]

They exist for NPCs as this point.

[nessalin]

Discussion is welcome.  Please rein in the pessimism, snark, and back-handed compliments.

[Grapes]

This is definitely cool. Magick just got a whole LOT scarier.

[Dresan]

Also, could the Staff update the helpfiles for magickers, to give them a little more info?

Maybe a little taste of what they can actually do now?

I would also love to see this too. I think the aspects were very well defined originally so I would love to see how they now grow and evolve.

[Brytta Léofa]

I am really digging the "specialization with a lot of overlap" plan (versus completely segregated specialization). It was a great idea with the main-guild revamps, and it's a great idea here too.

[Feco]

I am really digging the "specialization with a lot of overlap" plan (versus completely segregated specialization). It was a great idea with the main-guild revamps, and it's a great idea here too.

[Cerelum]

Less magicker sniffing can happen now. I literally saw a person ask a gemmed what type of water witch she was. I had to hold back on typing OOC NONE OF YOUR FUCKING BUSINESS!

[Lizzie]

Less magicker sniffing can happen now. I literally saw a person ask a gemmed what type of water witch she was. I had to hold back on typing OOC NONE OF YOUR FUCKING BUSINESS!

If you're looking to hire the type of water witch who can create water, then it very definitely is your business. If ALL water witches can do that, then it wouldn't matter which witch was which.

[th3kaiser]

Just because it's a mage doesn't make the guild sniffing any less distasteful. And let's be honest, nobody hires mages to make water. I only had that job once and it was well before clans didn't have to worry about getting their own water refilled.

[rinthrat]

Less magicker sniffing can happen now. I literally saw a person ask a gemmed what type of water witch she was. I had to hold back on typing OOC NONE OF YOUR FUCKING BUSINESS!

If you're looking to hire the type of water witch who can create water, then it very definitely is your business. If ALL water witches can do that, then it wouldn't matter which witch was which.

Why ask "What type of water witch are you?", instead of "Can you make water?", if that's what you need?

[Cabooze]

Less magicker sniffing can happen now. I literally saw a person ask a gemmed what type of water witch she was. I had to hold back on typing OOC NONE OF YOUR FUCKING BUSINESS!

If you're looking to hire the type of water witch who can create water, then it very definitely is your business. If ALL water witches can do that, then it wouldn't matter which witch was which.

Why ask "What type of water witch are you?", instead of "Can you make water?", if that's what you need?

I think the "what kind of witch are you?" question comes up a lot when specific characters are attempting to ascertain the potential value of that sub-human/insertsubracehere(because gickers are hardly able to be considered their assigned race).

Let's say, you get yourself into a situation where you're bringing some Oashi gemmer with you, and all you're told is they are a fire witch. Your commoner says, "Fire witch? Alright. When a gith comes at us, throw fire at their face!", but the fire witch looks at you dejectedly and says "I can only do x....". Or on the flip side, you bring a water witch, expecting them to be able to heal your injuries and play a support role in your group on whatever journey you're going on.... But it turns out, all they can do is give you poisoned food.

Now given those situations, why would it not be a reasonable thing to inquire with a witch about what kind they are?

[Brokkr]

As a commoner, why would you have any assumption whatsoever as to what the witch could do?

[Tekky]

As a commoner, why would you have any assumption whatsoever as to what the witch could do?

Bam.  This.

[gotdamnmiracle]

Specifically in the water filling scenario. Definitely still cases why that's important and outside the temple of Vivadu there's a pool of free-to-drink water. Assuming a Viv can fill my skin seems reasonable to me and when they say they can't replying with "why not?" also seems perfectly fine.

[X-D]

Well gee, how long have those temple things been around now? And commonly called you know, the water temple and fire temple etc. I'd figure even a commoner should be able to do at least that logic.

Also, Just because you have not had a Viv PC with the water making job since before clans had auto-water does not mean nobody has/does.

Also the docs plainly state,

The power that Vivaduans possess over Zalanthas' most precious resource instils no end of jealousy in those that lack it. Rumours often spring up when wells run dry that some magicker has conjured it away - or when a water source goes bad, it is the Vivaduan who is blamed. Disease and ill health are also frequently connected to the Vivaduan's healing arts - such afflictions being thought to follow magickers, or be a direct result of them working their magicks on others. It is a rare individual that will turn down conjured water when dying of thirst, or decline healing when their lifeblood drains out of them - but in both cases, they'd rather not be seen to do it.

So...Um..yeah. That is why a commoner would have that assumption, because the docs state so.
Along with the assumption that the vivadu can make babies blue, walls bleed, plants turn to ash and pretty much anything else you can think of to blame on a mage.

[Hicksville Hoochie]

But as a commoner who has only known of witches via the lore superstitions for their entire life, would you really WANT mage water?

Imagine what that stuff is doing once its inside your body, magic water with no ability to get it out of you? It was so refreshing, perhaps moreso than well water from the temple; but why? Is there a reason this mage's water is that good?

Now that this magic water is in your belly, is it going to curse your blood too? Will it curse your childrens' blood to make them filthy gicks as well?

And perhaps worst of all, what if someone (important or beloved to you) actually saw you drinking that filthy gicker water?! 

(Awesome change, btw, can't wait to goof around with it!)

[John]

But as a commoner who has only known of witches via the lore superstitions for their entire life, would you really WANT mage water?

You're right. Let's remove all reason for non-mages to interact with mages so that we can turn isolating roles into an even greater isolating and boring role.

[th3kaiser]

Also, Just because you have not had a Viv PC with the water making job since before clans had auto-water does not mean nobody has/does.

Also the docs plainly state,

The power that Vivaduans possess over Zalanthas' most precious resource instils no end of jealousy in those that lack it. Rumours often spring up when wells run dry that some magicker has conjured it away - or when a water source goes bad, it is the Vivaduan who is blamed. Disease and ill health are also frequently connected to the Vivaduan's healing arts - such afflictions being thought to follow magickers, or be a direct result of them working their magicks on others. It is a rare individual that will turn down conjured water when dying of thirst, or decline healing when their lifeblood drains out of them - but in both cases, they'd rather not be seen to do it.

I do understand my experiences aren't everyone's, X-D. I'm pretty sure it's just latent resentment over making my first viv after reading the docs twenty years ago and expecting people to buy water. Since they used to say it was a pretty common way to employ a viv. In my experience, it just never has been because water isn't actually hard to get.

[Hicksville Hoochie]

But as a commoner who has only known of witches via the lore superstitions for their entire life, would you really WANT mage water?

You're right. Let's remove all reason for non-mages to interact with mages so that we can turn isolating roles into an even greater isolating and boring role.

I'm not saying that PCs can't interact with mages, or even take the chance. If a Viv is going to fill your skin for half the price the temple will, that might outright be worth the risk to desperate common folk that are on an oppressive Allanaki budget.

I'm simply highlighting the stigma that follows around mages/gemmed, as something that is not to be trusted, and is generally feared and hated a great deal. I've seen npc riots start in the game over a gemmed casting something in public as a response to the way elementalists are accepted.

That said, if a specific player wants to play their character(s) as more accepting and tolerant than others, that's for them to do, and I have no problem with it; but from the lore documents and worldview of magick, I'll stand by my above post.

[John]

You can stand by your statement, but please dont portray it as consistent with the docs. Per the docs commoners can and do go to Vivaduans for water. You dont need to play against the docs to do so.

In addition, per the VNPC population as represented in room descs, people do go to magickers for healing.

As players can we please avoid inventing reasons to make isolating roles EVEN WORSE then the docs and room descs require

[Hicksville Hoochie]

You can stand by your statement, but please dont portray it as consistent with the docs. Per the docs commoners can and do go to Vivaduans for water. You dont need to play against the docs to do so.

In addition, per the VNPC population as represented in room descs, people do go to magickers for healing.

As players can we please avoid inventing reasons to make isolating roles EVEN WORSE then the docs and room descs require

I've never known of any such passage in the docs that suggests that going to Vivaduans for healing/water is a normal/accepted thing. The only passage I've been capable of finding that even references it is under the actual Vivaduan help file, which reads as:

Disease and ill health are also frequently connected to the Vivaduan's healing arts - such afflictions being thought to follow magickers, or be a direct result of them working their magicks on others. It is a rare individual that will turn down conjured water when dying of thirst, or decline healing when their lifeblood drains out of them - but in both cases, they'd rather not be seen to do it.

I'm certainly not inventing this perception in my experiences with the game. If there's a doc you can point me to that suggests otherwise, I would absolutely be open to reconsidering my perception of the matter. I haven't seen such a document though, (and if it does exist, would be thankful to see it).

If the Vivaduan rooms in the Ele quarters suggest otherwise (haven't been there in some time), then it seems like conflicting ideals between the VNPC population and the docs that could use some clarifying on.

Definitely not trying to force any isolation of roles by any means. It's up to individual players to follow those norms or not. I've witnessed that isolation in some of the Ele characters I've played (and gotten a full share of the opposite in some of the others). I'm simply going by the docs as I know them, and my own experience in the game; while very glad to change my perception if shown otherwise.

[Lizzie]

John said:

In addition, per the VNPC population as represented in room descs, people do go to magickers for healing.

He didn't say that specific thing was in the docs. He said that specific thing is represented in the room descriptions themselves.

[Hicksville Hoochie]

Which I addressed in the tail end of my post, saying that it seems to be a bit of a conflict between the two that could use some clarification.

He's also referenced it as part of the docs as well.

Per the docs commoners can and do go to Vivaduans for water. You dont need to play against the docs to do so.

Which is not something I've denied. In my own quote of the docs, it's said that:

It is a rare individual that will turn down conjured water when dying of thirst, or decline healing when their lifeblood drains out of them - but in both cases, they'd rather not be seen to do it.

And is not my stance that this does not happen. My stance is that it is not seen as a common, or good thing by the populace at large. Perhaps my views are a little too harsh on the stigma of magick and the common person, but in my entire time of playing this game, it's always been represented to me as "magick bad, no magick good", and that the average person will avoid the heck out of it unless left no other option.

[Cabooze]

As a commoner, why would you have any assumption whatsoever as to what the witch could do?

As referenced by people that posted after you, not only is it represented in the documentation but it's also represented in room descriptions.

Throughout a character's entire life (including that time they exist virtually before you apply to become them), they would need to be living under a rock to not witness what witches are capable of doing. There is a whole city-quarter dedicated to them. Witches, while rarely done, do indeed come out of their quarter and if instructed by a templar, cast their magicks.

Commoners would see this, they do see this, and often times they react to this in the form of riots. To imply that commoners aren't able to have assumptions of what witches are able to do is just wildly inaccurate.

I'm also not trying to come across as rude, but Brokkr's response presents itself as a "GOTCHA" argument.

[Brokkr]

It was simply meant to spur discussion.

Of course commoners are going to have some assumptions.  It is likely a proportion of them are no where near the truth of what a mage could actually do, while others may contain elements of truth.  Unlikely that the commoner themselves could distinguish between those that are false and true?

And yet, somehow, I doubt many players are guild sniffing with "spells" that don't exist.

[Eyeball]

I've always considered Vivaduans to be a special case among the elementalists. Commoners can get by without the others, but when a baby gets sick, or a hunter gets poisoned without a cure, or Amos falls over, mortally injured, among friends who can drag him somewhere, the Vivaduan temple is there as a last resort, and while people may not feel good about it, they'll go there.

People talk and whisper to each other. Word would spread of the positive things Vivs can do. That's not to say people wouldn't still be suspicious or that Vivs never have a dark nature, but they'd tend to know there is healing there. Experienced soldiers especially would know.

[Inks]

What Brokkr said. Too much meta. Get good.

[rinthrat]

I have always thought that is why the vivaduan temple is located conveniently near the plaza. It allows commoners to visit and use their services. There are a number of NPCs in the plaza that seem to be there for healing. They are described as sick, and don't wear a gem.

[Dresan]

With the new found power of the karma 2 sub-classes and another karma three subclass coming, will any of the current karma 3 aspects be re-assessed to see if they should be moved down to two karma?

[mansa]

With the new found power of the karma 2 sub-classes and another karma three subclass coming, will any of the current karma 3 aspects be re-assessed to see if they should be moved down to two karma?

Reference from 2018, may need some adjusting:


1 Karma:

• Races:
  
  • Desert elf - http://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Desert%20Elves

• Subclasses:
  
  • Water Touched - http://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Touched
  • Stone Touched - http://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Touched
  • Fire Touched - http://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Touched
  • Wind Touched - http://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Touched
  • Cutpurse - http://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Cutpurse
  • Rogue - http://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Rogue
  • Grebber - http://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Grebber
  • Slipknife - http://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Slipknife
  • Apothecary - http://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Apothecary
  • Majordomo - http://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Majordomo
  • Minstrel - http://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Minstrel
  • Master Tailor - http://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Master%20Tailor
  • Master Jeweler - http://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Master%20Jeweler
  • Master Weaponsmith - http://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Weaponsmith
  • Master Crafter - http://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Master%20Crafter
  • Master Armorsmith - http://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Master%20Armorsmith
  • Master Potter - http://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Master%20Potter
  • Master Chef - http://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Master%20Chef
  • Master Trader - http://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Master%20Trader

2 Karma:

• Races:
  
  • Half Giant - http://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Half-Giants

• Subclasses:
  
  • Vivadu Healer - http://www.armageddon.org/help/view/vivaduans
  • Vivadu Corruption - http://www.armageddon.org/help/view/vivaduans
  • Vivadu Creation - http://www.armageddon.org/help/view/vivaduans
  • Ruk Protector - http://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Rukkians
  • Ruk Empowering - http://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Rukkians
  • Ruk Creation - http://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Rukkians
  • Whira Tempest - http://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Whirans
  • Suk-Krath Guile - http://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Krathis
  
  
  • Berserker - http://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Berserker
  • Lancer - http://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Lancer
  • Bruiser - http://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Bruiser
  • Aggressor - http://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Aggressor
  • Outdoorsman - http://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Outdoorsman
  • Protector - http://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Protector

3 Karma:

• Races:
  
  • Mul - http://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Muls

• Subclasses
• Whira Travel - http://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Whirans
• Whira Illusion - http://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Whirans
• Suk-Krath Agony - http://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Krathis
• Suk-Krath Devastation - http://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Krathis

[Dresan]

Ookay. Seems you don't think staff should. 

[Brokkr]

With the new found power of the karma 2 sub-classes and another karma three subclass coming, will any of the current karma 3 aspects be re-assessed to see if they should be moved down to two karma?

Another karma three subclass coming?  I have no idea what you are talking about.

[Cerelum]

With the new found power of the karma 2 sub-classes and another karma three subclass coming, will any of the current karma 3 aspects be re-assessed to see if they should be moved down to two karma?

Another karma three subclass coming?  I have no idea what you are talking about.

I was wondering when I read this, but figured I'd missed some announcement, I was hoping that shadow or lightning magick was going to come back into the game as a non sorcerer.

Think that's ever gonna be in the books?

[Dresan]

With the new found power of the karma 2 sub-classes and another karma three subclass coming, will any of the current karma 3 aspects be re-assessed to see if they should be moved down to two karma?

Another karma three subclass coming?  I have no idea what you are talking about.

I guess i read the below from Naavathan a while back and misinterpreted.

-Addition of a new 3 karma magick subguild, more information to come soon

[Cabooze]

With the new found power of the karma 2 sub-classes and another karma three subclass coming, will any of the current karma 3 aspects be re-assessed to see if they should be moved down to two karma?

Another karma three subclass coming?  I have no idea what you are talking about.

I guess i read the below from Naavathan a while back and misinterpreted.

-Addition of a new 3 karma magick subguild, more information to come soon

https://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Nilazi

[Dresan]

With the new found power of the karma 2 sub-classes and another karma three subclass coming, will any of the current karma 3 aspects be re-assessed to see if they should be moved down to two karma?

Another karma three subclass coming?  I have no idea what you are talking about.

I guess i read the below from Naavathan a while back and misinterpreted.

-Addition of a new 3 karma magick subguild, more information to come soon

https://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Nilazi

Wow I totally missed this, had no idea they were added back in the game. I was hoping it would be Nilaz. Nice.

[Cerelum]

I also had no idea that Void elementalists were in the game again.

Why aren't they linked in the other elementalists helpfile?

https://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Elementalist

[Cabooze]

I also had no idea that Void elementalists were in the game again.

Why aren't they linked in the other elementalists helpfile?

https://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Elementalist

That's a find out IC, my friend.







But no seriously, they should be added to that list.

[Lizzie]

The void isn't an element.

[Jihelu]

"Those who are able to call upon the power of one of the four elements are known as elementalists. "

Bruh so what are elkrosians and drovians.

[Delirium]

Good question.

Those helpfiles could use an update, I think, especially https://www.armageddon.org/help/view/elementalist%20culture

[Jihelu]

" or have gone shadow walking if they're a drovian."

Damn I never knew the documents dead ass mentioned Drovians and their shadow-boi spell.

[Cabooze]

The void isn't an element.

If void isn't an element, then elkros isn't either. Like elkros, it's a quasi-element and on its helpfile:

Due to their nature, void elementalists .....

As well as this, all of the known elements are listed here: https://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Magick%20Element

[MeTekillot]

You guys are quite literally arguing semantics.

[Cabooze]

You guys are quite literally arguing semantics.

Sorry. I don't like being told that I'm wrong or when people insist in something that isn't true.

But in any case, the point behind it originates with the desire for the elements to be listed on the elementalist culture help file.

[Cerelum]

I think only the things with temples in Allanak are "elementalists" the rest are abominations that should die in a god damn fire!

*I would totally play one of those abominations just for the record.

[John]

Per the docs commoners can and do go to Vivaduans for water. You dont need to play against the docs to do so.

Which is not something I've denied.

Cool. Your post saying "Who would ever go to a water witch for water" and follow up posts made it sound like PCs are playing against the docs to do so. You're now saying they aren't playing against the docs to do so, so we're in agreemeent.

[Hicksville Hoochie]

My post was attributing to the stigma behind it, and the idea that  it's not something the average person would want to do. I haven't once said it was playing against the docs for a pc to go to a Viv for healing/water. You're taking my words on how I assume the average person would possibly think about magick, and reading entirely too much into it.

Magick is a mysterious and very rare power on Zalanthas, about which the general public knows very little, and generally fears and hates a great deal. While magickers are tolerated in some places, they are generally feared and distrusted by the vast majority of the population of Zalanthas. In many places, magickers are killed upon discovery, and even the rumor that one is a magicker can lead to one's death.

Elementalists are rare and their connection is widely considered a curse on Zalanthas, inflicted seemingly at random upon individuals who almost exclusively do not desire it.

Disease and ill health are also frequently connected to the Vivaduan's healing arts - such afflictions being thought to follow magickers, or be a direct result of them working their magicks on others. It is a rare individual that will turn down conjured water when dying of thirst, or decline healing when their lifeblood drains out of them - but in both cases, they'd rather not be seen to do it.

It is not seen as good or normal by the average person in Allanak. Those VNPCs in the room of the quarters are the desperate that likely feel they don't/don't have any other choice. The average 'Nakki citizen doesn't just wake up in the morning with thoughts of going over to the Viv temple and grabbing a gallon of water and some anti-something-rot magicks. The docs clearly state this -- this is NOT me saying players can't/shouldn't do it. Nor is it me encouraging people to isolate the gemmed (or at least the 'useful' ones) further from the playerbase. It's simply me saying that it isn't considered normal/good, as per the docs. If there's a passage in the docs that refutes the quotes above, which are from the docs, then I'd be glad to change my perception if you show it to me.

[Cerelum]

I don't think anyone is saying you can't get your ass beat up, and goto the Water Temple to get healed, nor be thirsty and goto the water temple and beg for water.

What I think is being said is that if you make a habit of it, expect people to start to talk about your character.  I would imagine the talk would vary wildly from how crazy you are to let witches touch you to whispered rumors that you must BE a witch.

I think I saw Sanvean or one of the big OGs from the game say something along the lines of, "You don't have to follow every doc, but if you start blatantly playing against them regularly, expect consequences." (paraphrasing)

[John]

I haven't once said it was playing against the docs for a pc to go to a Viv for healing/water.

Cool. Thank you for clarifying your position.

[Brokkr]

"Help Touched" has been updated slightly.

While we have no intentions of elaborating on the spell side of things, the Touched subclasses also possess various skills. Whereas other subclasses that give skills were expounded upon so that folks can figure out skill-wise what they are getting in combination with their class, the Touched subclasses were still lacking in this regards.  The change put them on a more even playing field information wise with other subclasses and extended subclasses.

But, again, no spell information or intention of ever listing out spell information.

[AdamBlue]

"Help Touched" has been updated slightly.

While we have no intentions of elaborating on the spell side of things, the Touched subclasses also possess various skills. Whereas other subclasses that give skills were expounded upon so that folks can figure out skill-wise what they are getting in combination with their class, the Touched subclasses were still lacking in this regards.  The change put them on a more even playing field information wise with other subclasses and extended subclasses.

But, again, no spell information or intention of ever listing out spell information.

Hot damn. I love it. Thanks for updating that, that makes the touched subguilds look a hell of a lot cooler!

[TFort]

I had no interest in any touched subclasses but now i want to play one even more than checking out the magick subclasses.

Those skills are great and they can even cast some spells on top of that. That is utterly amazing.

[Brokkr]

I realized I forgot about branching altogether for some of the Touch subclasses.  The helpfile should now also reflect branching, not just the skills and levels they get to.

[Vex]

I haven't once said it was playing against the docs for a pc to go to a Viv for healing/water.

You implied it was bad rp, pretty heavily.

That was my impression, both before and after, John called you on it.

[Hicksville Hoochie]

I do apologize that it was taken that way by folks reading it, but it absolutely wasn't the spirit of the post. It was my interpretation as to how the average Allanak citizen might think on the matter when confronted with it, not to consider it as any form of bad rp.

Emotions interpreted through text, internet, blah blah blah -- apologies again to anyone that interpreted it that way.

[John]

I had no interest in any touched subclasses but now i want to play one even more than checking out the magick subclasses.

Those skills are great and they can even cast some spells on top of that. That is utterly amazing.

Pretty much this. I doubt I would start play with the intent of attaining the gem (if only because their spellcasting is so limited). But if I wanted to play a cursed person who spends their whole life trying to hide the curse, I would now seriously consider a touched character whereas beforehand I would never consider these subguilds to be viable.

Good job Brokkr

[only_plays_tribals]

Yeah looking at the skills lists for Touched I have to say that was my feel too. I could see a few of these making for really nice quasi-mundanes with a magick surprise bag.

[Cerelum]

I think the touched are pretty cool, I've only played one who was murdered relatively fast but I'd play another one.