Magick Meat is BACK on the table!

[Dresan]

But subclass mages aren't some anemic magicker that has a 1/3 of the spells of a guild elementalist.

More like roughly 55%-75% of the spells, depending on the guild and subclass   

Another significant change. Wow.

I am guessing classes from mercantile/city  probably get the most spells while those further up the line of wilderness and city stealth classes get less and/or less OP combinations?

I have to say now these seem like 2-3 karma subguilds while the poor protector and even outdoorsman subclass weep. Hopefully this allows mudane classes to be reworked and move down to 1 karma while keeping the signifcantly more powerful magick subgulds at 2 karma

[gotdamnmiracle]

Ayyy. Appreciate the shout out, Brokkr. I think this will go a long way toward fixing the silliness with the Krathi touched. I trust you guys know what you're doing.

Please don't feel like your'e rewarding bad behavior with this change and the weapons skillgain cap change. I think it's great that staff is debating and deciding what to do with player input and look forward to see what the changes actually are.

[Marauder Moe]

[Brokkr]

Hmmm, I should have stopped and thought a bit more before I posted!

Touched are still anemic, sorry.  Aspects are the ones with that many spells.

By guilds, I mean the elementalist guilds, and by subclass, the Aspect elementalist subclass.  Depending on what original elementalist guild and new elementalist subclass you are comparing, the percentage changes.

[gotdamnmiracle]

Hmmm, I should have stopped and thought a bit more before I posted!

Touched are still anemic, sorry.  Aspects are the ones with that many spells.

By guilds, I mean the elementalist guilds, and by subclass, the Aspect elementalist subclass.  Depending on what original elementalist guild and new elementalist subclass you are comparing, the percentage changes.

Haha! Oh you.

[Dresan]

I think that it is a good change. There are people who enjoy playing magickers and this will make them happy.

Furthermore it seems to be balanced out by the class(guild) you pick and karma regeneration which prevents people from playing magicker back to back. And frankly if this means some people go so far as to even take game breaks in order to just play magick classes then so be it. 

The classes were a pretty damn good change too (though I still say infiltrator needs brew or disarm, but I digress) in that you give up a lot of upfront utility to pick a magick class. Losing direction sense as city class or even thief subclass as wilderness class is a hard trade off in my opinion.

As someone who doesn't like playing magickers as much hopefully this will allow all mundane subclass to be given a bit more love in the future.

(Wow. Really big buff to magickers)

[Dresan]

Depending on what original elementalist guild and new elementalist subclass you are comparing, the percentage changes.

I would assume there is more overlap in spells now too between the different aspects of the same elements? Are there different proficiency to spell level perhaps?

Curious to what mechanics have changed too, but probably too IC. I know two magick mechanics that made the subguilds rather annoying to play.

I haven't really used any karma in years now but even I am kinda tempted to see, though at I am also quite addicted to wilderness/city utility....

[PriestlySiren]

Ugh. Now to come up with a new character.

[Vex]

I'm a bit confused.

Are old "guild" magicks resurrected as options, or were the current ones expanded? Or were there new options added?

Are changes significant enough, that apps-in-waiting, should be revised?

[Cerelum]

Also, could the Staff update the helpfiles for magickers, to give them a little more info?

Maybe a little taste of what they can actually do now?

[Brokkr]

I'm a bit confused.

Are old "guild" magicks resurrected as options, or were the current ones expanded? Or were there new options added?

Are changes significant enough, that apps-in-waiting, should be revised?

emote looks at ~Vex, confused.

You know that full guild magickers from a code standpoint still exist?  Should be evident given that the long lived ones existed long after subclass magickers came into play.  What those magickers have, which are more or less what they always were, vs subclass Aspect magickers.

Like apps-in-waiting of subclass magickers?  Should be fine.

[Vex]

emote looks at ~Vex, confused.

You know that full guild magickers from a code standpoint still exist?  Should be evident given that the long lived ones existed long after subclass magickers came into play.  What those magickers have, which are more or less what they always were, vs subclass Aspect magickers.

Like apps-in-waiting of subclass magickers?  Should be fine.

I didn't know, there were still "old" guild magickers around, no.

But they're no longer options, so I was confused about magick guilds and subclass being mentioned as seperate... such. Does this mean, the "old guild" magickers are still being updated? Would that be for a potential re-release, or for simply the benefit of the remaining, if any, old ones?

And yes, I had an app made and approved some time ago, that is one of the listed magickers. I wanted to clarify, if I needed to revise, but it sounds like not.

By old ones, I mean the old guild, not Cthulhu and friends...

[Jihelu]

Brokr mentioned "Full guilds" because he was comparing the new subguilds to them, saying they have 50-70ish percent of their spells.

Meaning a subguild krathis may have 60ish percent of the spells a fullguild krathis WOULD HAVE HAD (or still has, assuming one is around).

That doesn't mean fullguild krathis are able to be app'd in.

[Brokkr]

They exist for NPCs as this point.

[nessalin]

Discussion is welcome.  Please rein in the pessimism, snark, and back-handed compliments.

[Grapes]

This is definitely cool. Magick just got a whole LOT scarier.

[Dresan]

Also, could the Staff update the helpfiles for magickers, to give them a little more info?

Maybe a little taste of what they can actually do now?

I would also love to see this too. I think the aspects were very well defined originally so I would love to see how they now grow and evolve.

[Brytta Léofa]

I am really digging the "specialization with a lot of overlap" plan (versus completely segregated specialization). It was a great idea with the main-guild revamps, and it's a great idea here too.

[Feco]

I am really digging the "specialization with a lot of overlap" plan (versus completely segregated specialization). It was a great idea with the main-guild revamps, and it's a great idea here too.

[Cerelum]

Less magicker sniffing can happen now. I literally saw a person ask a gemmed what type of water witch she was. I had to hold back on typing OOC NONE OF YOUR FUCKING BUSINESS!

[Lizzie]

Less magicker sniffing can happen now. I literally saw a person ask a gemmed what type of water witch she was. I had to hold back on typing OOC NONE OF YOUR FUCKING BUSINESS!

If you're looking to hire the type of water witch who can create water, then it very definitely is your business. If ALL water witches can do that, then it wouldn't matter which witch was which.

[th3kaiser]

Just because it's a mage doesn't make the guild sniffing any less distasteful. And let's be honest, nobody hires mages to make water. I only had that job once and it was well before clans didn't have to worry about getting their own water refilled.

[rinthrat]

Less magicker sniffing can happen now. I literally saw a person ask a gemmed what type of water witch she was. I had to hold back on typing OOC NONE OF YOUR FUCKING BUSINESS!

If you're looking to hire the type of water witch who can create water, then it very definitely is your business. If ALL water witches can do that, then it wouldn't matter which witch was which.

Why ask "What type of water witch are you?", instead of "Can you make water?", if that's what you need?

[Cabooze]

Less magicker sniffing can happen now. I literally saw a person ask a gemmed what type of water witch she was. I had to hold back on typing OOC NONE OF YOUR FUCKING BUSINESS!

If you're looking to hire the type of water witch who can create water, then it very definitely is your business. If ALL water witches can do that, then it wouldn't matter which witch was which.

Why ask "What type of water witch are you?", instead of "Can you make water?", if that's what you need?

I think the "what kind of witch are you?" question comes up a lot when specific characters are attempting to ascertain the potential value of that sub-human/insertsubracehere(because gickers are hardly able to be considered their assigned race).

Let's say, you get yourself into a situation where you're bringing some Oashi gemmer with you, and all you're told is they are a fire witch. Your commoner says, "Fire witch? Alright. When a gith comes at us, throw fire at their face!", but the fire witch looks at you dejectedly and says "I can only do x....". Or on the flip side, you bring a water witch, expecting them to be able to heal your injuries and play a support role in your group on whatever journey you're going on.... But it turns out, all they can do is give you poisoned food.

Now given those situations, why would it not be a reasonable thing to inquire with a witch about what kind they are?

[Brokkr]

As a commoner, why would you have any assumption whatsoever as to what the witch could do?