Discussion thread for proposed karma changes.

[BadSkeelz]

Alternatively, an interesting thought is the ability to increase a skill max of a non-combat skill in CG using an RPP, rather than increasing the starting level. I'd much rather play a Nomad with master spearmaking than most of the extended subguilds.

It would be nice if we could use Karma to bump up an existing, long-lived character's skills. Spend a karma point on your RL-year-old Nomad to get master spearcrafting with the hope you don't die immediately and let it recharge.

My long-lived characters are all 0/0 karma. They tend to get good at what they can do four or five months in to their 18 month average lifetime with little room for advancement. My current 4 points of karma have been of little use except for flavor bumps (buying languages, which I would only be able to do once a year now ffs) or stroking my own ego.

[FantasyWriter]

Alternatively, an interesting thought is the ability to increase a skill max of a non-combat skill in CG using an RPP, rather than increasing the starting level. I'd much rather play a Nomad with master spearmaking than most of the extended subguilds.

It would be nice if we could use Karma to bump up an existing, long-lived character's skills. Spend a karma point on your RL-year-old Nomad to get master spearcrafting with the hope you don't die immediately and let it recharge.

+1

[lostinspace]

rip merchants and assassins who might be able to exist outside of their narrow niche thanks to Outdoorsman and Protector subguilds.

And burglars , but hey, at least we still got search!

[Dar]

So special application that have little to do with karma will all be limited to 1 per year? Misc changes like cannibalism ability, or extraordinary mutation, or maybe an extra language. All of that will be limited to 1 year?

[Fathi]

So special application that have little to do with karma will all be limited to 1 per year? Misc changes like cannibalism ability, or extraordinary mutation, or maybe an extra language. All of that will be limited to 1 year?

I'd really like clarification on this as well. I can't say I've ever used 3 in a year but 1 per year seems really rough considering how even minor tweaks require special apping. I got told once I'd have to special app if I wanted to play a character with an additional accent. Once a year for stuff like that seems pretty extreme.

[Nathvaan]

We will continue to discuss the policy issues (like how many special apps/year) but I believe I have the code aspect of this worked out.  We will probably be deploying this shortly, perhaps in the next few days.

You can expect to see "All karma options adjusted." on the first login after this updates and there maybe a little delay/lag when that happens while the machine does a lot of DB work in the background.  It will only happen on the first login.

Thanks again for the discussion.

[helix]

Nathvaan,

Glad to see the karma changes are finally going on. Thanks for all the good discussion with us!

Just one more quick question -

If we notice an issue with our karma options after this happens, should we bug it in-game or send up a request through the request tool?

[Adhira]

Please put a request in through the tool.  It may be part of a larger issue that will require coder types to look at it and they will not always be on to see the wish.  Putting in the request as a bug will make sure it's brought to their attention. Thanks.

[lostinspace]

Have these changes gone through?

[mansa]

It looks like it for me.

[Lizzie]

From the official announcement, bottom half:

Granting Karma:
Karma will be granted using existing criteria.  Each karma category can only be granted once. (i.e. Only 1 point for Roleplay, 1 point for Leadership etc.).  A level 3 player should still have achieved in 6+ areas.  On review multiple karma categories may be awarded. If not enough categories are awarded to move to the next level the category will be noted and used when next reviewing the account.

Level 0 - No criteria required
Level 1 - 1 or 2 points
Level 2 - 3 to 5 points
Level 3 - 6 or all 8 points
Karma criteria remains the same:
Longevity
Good communication
Ability to roleplay
Proven understanding of magick and its place in the game world
Proven understanding of cultural and racial structures
Contributes to the game
Leadership

Level 3 can't get all 8 points, because there are only 7 points. There used to be 8 points because you used to be able to get 2 points I believe for longevity.

In addition, the original karma change proposal of 2011 is stickied, and is now obsolete.

[sleepyhead]

When you get a new karma point will it be automatically filled or will it be "empty" and have to regenerate (or perhaps "generate" is the correct term)?

EDIT: Also, when will the moratorium on karma review requests be lifted in light of the new changes finally coming out?

[Miradus]

How do you know, at a glance, what you have and how do you know what you'll have after you pick from an available option?

Looking at the list, I can't tell if I got the shaft or not. There's some options that were not available to me before, but I also lost several of the options which were regular stand-by choices for me.

[mansa]

How do you know, at a glance, what you have and how do you know what you'll have after you pick from an available option?

Looking at the list, I can't tell if I got the shaft or not. There's some options that were not available to me before, but I also lost several of the options which were regular stand-by choices for me.

Mul is 3
Half Giant is 2
Desert Elf is 1

[Dar]

It seems to be possible to create a Mul guild/advanced subguild.  Which if combined together takes more then 3 Karma.

[whitt]

It seems to be possible to create a Mul guild/advanced subguild.  Which if combined together takes more then 3 Karma.

It's not additive.  Or wasn't.  It's a gate.  Mul is 3, whichever subguild is 3.  All 3's... cost 3

cElf is 0, whichever subguild is 3.  Cost is 3.

[Nathvaan]

It seems to be possible to create a Mul guild/advanced subguild.  Which if combined together takes more then 3 Karma.

It's not additive.  Or wasn't.  It's a gate.  Mul is 3, whichever subguild is 3.  All 3's... cost 3

cElf is 0, whichever subguild is 3.  Cost is 3.

Correct!  Also I would like to state I do expect there to be some bugs in a rewrite this massive.  If you see any issues on how you might be able to circumvent the spirit of the change please put in a bug report to let us know.

Thanks.

[650Booger]

it seems possible to circumvent some restrictions on race/magicker that I thought existed, for example d-elfs should be unable to play a wind magicker?

[Riev]

it seems possible to circumvent some restrictions on race/magicker that I thought existed, for example d-elfs should be unable to play a wind magicker?

I'm not certain this restriction actually exists, but rather there are no Desert Elf clans that "allow" a wind magicker in their ranks specifically.

[lostinspace]

I see no reason not to add those restrictions. They're not going to be approved without a spec. app anyways and you already can't play a Delf assassin or a Celf ranger. Seems like it would just save everyone time and ensure no anomalies slip through the approval system.

[hopeandsorrow]

Well fuck me.

I actually love this.

100%

Man 8 Karma always felt like... impossible to achieve.

Yet the idea that Psion/Sorc could open up at the 3 karma level and a spec app... make it feel achievable and fair, while keeping the quality/maturity you're looking for in place.

I seriously like the changes.  Wish all the cool classes like Elk/Nilaz were back though.

[Cind]

I took a look at my options list and was kind of intrigued. I'm going to miss <most useless witch> option but I've never had the option to do a wind witch before.

[sleepyhead]

I lost a karma point fairly recently and it wasn't a big deal to me at the time; however, with the change I have now lost quite a few more options, so I have to admit I'm a little sad. I hope I can earn that point back soon!

[Riev]

I basically have all the options I had before. So long as I have the option for some of the more neat extended subguilds, I'm okay with it.

However, man would I like to play a psi and just stalk people I find interesting.

[Dar]

I'd still hope that they ease up on special apps restriction. The ones that dont involve abnormal use of karma. The mutation, the little oddities that could make things cooler, or complete a chara concept