The Plot Satisfaction Thread

[Taven]

Awhile ago I put out a plot satisfaction survey to collect people's opinions on plots (to view the questions asked, click here). I'm still working to sift through all of the data from that thread, but I wanted to open a dialog on plots and how we—both as players and staff—can work to improve the viability of plots and the satisfaction with the plot pursing experience.

My goal of this thread is to open a genuine discussion that is not aimed at pointing fingers, but instead seeks to address the issue and find solutions. In these sorts of discussions, things can get heated, because it's a heartfelt topic for everyone. But I invite everyone to approach it with an open mind and acknowledge that all of us want to make the game better.



With that in mind, I want to show the results of some of the data, specifically looking at large world changing plots as well as small world-changing plots. Bear in mind that this is only a tiny fraction of the overall data, and any poll can be improved for quality. However, this is what will give us a starting point to go off of:


       
      (CLICK ON A GRAPH TO SEE IT LARGER)



Additionally, there were some people who took the time to give thoughtful, insightful responses anonymously at the end of the survey. I would like to share these later on, but for now I thought we would start with the hard data.


(Edited to provide link to questions and to update graph tagging.)

[Miradus]

For a game that seems to be centered around plots, y'all people sure are unhappy about plots.

[Dunetrade55]

I would think ease of actually leaving a clan would draw in more members, as well as open more slots if someone wants to get out, just a thought. I don't think it should be entirely easy, but if it isn't working out for a minion or leader then options to step aside without death/storage would be ideal... but then the question becomes, should sponsored roles, who've received skillboosts, be eligible to step out? I would think, yes, provided they don't go around advertising it. Icly, the only difference is their background is they were raised by the house/clan, or have some other trait that otherwise attaches them to the clan.

I'm personally not a fan of the concept of deserting as it stands, although I do see how it can generate plots. I don't mind losing a PC who is rightfully hunted down by their former employers for some wrong...

BUT, and this is a big but, sometimes you join a clan and find out your particular PC concept is not a good fit, maybe you'd rather graciously bow out with a whimper than go out with a loud bang (if you don't feel the icy hand of staff upon you in the process). Oftentimes finding a PC leader, particularly one who won't be personally offended, to leave to explore smaller plots, can be difficult. This isn't about me, everything I've gotten I've had coming to me. It would be nice if you could wish up to staff to leave in a legitimate manner, provided no current clan leader is investigating you for a crime, although I'm not sure of the logistics of that and the possibilities of gaming that to get out before getting your just deserts.

My personal favorite plots are the tiny plots most will never see, the heartfelt stories arising from lost loves and abandonment issues, the fears that come with it, being able to integrate that into other plots in a fashion that accomodates other stories and supplements them with more stories. I like listening to another PC tell a story about a gift, to recall, rather than, eh, it's a comb. I like to see continuation of the smaller stuff, echoes, ripples, but that requires the participation of other players, and some don't like that, which is completely within their rights.

[Taven]

My personal favorite plots are the tiny plots most will never see, the heartfelt stories arising from lost loves and abandonment issues, the fears that come with it, being able to integrate that into other plots in a fashion that accomodates other stories and supplements them with more stories. I like listening to another PC tell a story about a gift, to recall, rather than, eh, it's a comb. I like to see continuation of the smaller stuff, echoes, ripples, but that requires the participation of other players, and some don't like that, which is completely within their rights.

Yeah, the poll I did also covered small personal plots, small cross-clan relation plots, entertainment plots, and relationship plots. I didn't include any of that data in this thread, though. This thread in particular I'm starting with the plots that are more likely to change the world, be it in a large way or in a small way.

Would you find it interesting to see the data on the small personal plots, perhaps later on in a different thread?

[Dunetrade55]

My personal favorite plots are the tiny plots most will never see, the heartfelt stories arising from lost loves and abandonment issues, the fears that come with it, being able to integrate that into other plots in a fashion that accomodates other stories and supplements them with more stories. I like listening to another PC tell a story about a gift, to recall, rather than, eh, it's a comb. I like to see continuation of the smaller stuff, echoes, ripples, but that requires the participation of other players, and some don't like that, which is completely within their rights.

Yeah, the poll I did also covered small personal plots, small cross-clan relation plots, entertainment plots, and relationship plots. I didn't include any of that data in this thread, though. This thread in particular I'm starting with the plots that are more likely to change the world, be it in a large way or in a small way.

Would you find it interesting to see the data on the small personal plots, perhaps later on in a different thread?

I most definitely would.

[Taven]

I most definitely would.

I'll see if I can sift through the data and make a thread for that later on, probably after this one has thoroughly run its course.

[Marauder Moe]

I don't understand these graphs and you don't seem to have shared your conclusions anywhere.

[Miradus]

The orange seems to be the number of people who think plots suck, or the way they have been handled suck, or something about them was not happy-making. In most of the graphs it's the greater number.

I've never directly (or knowingly) been part of a "real" plot. Maybe I was Stormtrooper #37 or Red Shirt #2 but I never saw anything from beginning to end.

So I got no real input here as to what could or couldn't be improved upon.

[Refugee]

I've not felt unable to insert myself into a plot in some way.  Ever!  But I purposely play PCs that would, because I like that.

[Taven]

I don't understand these graphs and you don't seem to have shared your conclusions anywhere.

I'm leaving people to their own interpretation and just sharing the data.

The purpose of the thread is to better enable people to pursue plots or be satisfied with their ability and support to do so, by brainstorming together and discussing what works and doesn't.

Which part of the graphs is confusing for you?

[Taven]

I've not felt unable to insert myself into a plot in some way.  Ever!  But I purposely play PCs that would, because I like that.

Do you generally involve yourself with supporting the plots of others, initiating your own plots, or both?

What advice would you have for people who want to either be involved with the plots of others, or start their own? (Both in terms of getting support from staff and PCs or generally increasing their ability to participate)

[nauta]

Which part of the graphs is confusing for you?

What is "Very Interested People Who Participated"?

Why does column A on chart 2 have "Pursual Ability" whereas column A on chart 1 "General"?

What is "Pursual Ability"?

What is "Different Impacts"?

[Delirium]

I would be interested in how many of the respondents considered themselves "self starters" or if they were more of the "reactive" type. Or both. And take that into consideration along with their answers.

[Inks]

I think if you self start in the gameworld since Rath took over you can go wherever you want as long as you take the virtual world into account. I think a lot of people don't try because they have ptsd from years ago. Just try it. Trust me.

[Taven]

What is "Very Interested People Who Participated"?
Why does column A on chart 2 have "Pursual Ability" whereas column A on chart 1 "General"?
What is "Pursual Ability"?
What is "Different Impacts"?

Well, two errors on my part, then. I had assumed when polling was closed it would still let everyone see the questions. That doesn't seem to be the case. You can click here to see the questions relevant to this thread.

As you can see, there are different levels of interest. Because there was so much data, my graphs are only a small fragment of the collected data. Basically, I'm looking at people who said they were "very interested" and ALSO said they pursued plots. My current graphs don't look at people who are less interested, or who are very interested but not pursuing plots.

Secondly, the "Pursual Ability" is how satisfied a player was with their ability to pursue plots. This is the same as "General". I had meant to relabel that to make it clearer and more consistent, but I didn't get the right graph up. I'll correct my tagging, thank you for pointing that out.

Finally, as I mentioned before, I was asking about many, many different types of plots, not just the couple we're looking at in this thread. It's possible that if you are in a clan you feel like you're better able to pursue small world building plots, but perhaps feel less able to pursue relationship plots, for example. This is a question which to be better explored more fully could use it's own poll, to distinguish which plots players feel are enhanced or not by clans. But for the moment, the graph shows the basic data that was collected.

[Taven]

I think if you self start in the gameworld since Rath took over you can go wherever you want as long as you take the virtual world into account. I think a lot of people don't try because they have ptsd from years ago. Just try it. Trust me.

I think that Rath's a pretty rad staffer.

However... The numbers that you're seeing aren't from people who have given up. They are from people who are pursuing or trying to pursue plots.

Large world changing plots have 42% of respondents who are dissatisfied with PC support and 57% who are dissatisfied with staff support.

Meanwhile, small world changing has dissatisfaction ratings of 39% for PC support and 43% for staff support.

Those are some pretty big numbers for dissatisfaction. How can we improve those numbers and make them better across the board?

[nauta]

What is "Very Interested People Who Participated"?
Why does column A on chart 2 have "Pursual Ability" whereas column A on chart 1 "General"?
What is "Pursual Ability"?
What is "Different Impacts"?

Well, two errors on my part, then. I had assumed when polling was closed it would still let everyone see the questions. That doesn't seem to be the case. You can click here to see the questions relevant to this thread.

As you can see, there are different levels of interest. Because there was so much data, my graphs are only a small fragment of the collected data. Basically, I'm looking at people who said they were "very interested" and ALSO said they pursued plots. My current graphs don't look at people who are less interested, or who are very interested but not pursuing plots.

Secondly, the "Pursual Ability" is how satisfied a player was with their ability to pursue plots. This is the same as "General". I had meant to relabel that to make it clearer and more consistent, but I didn't get the right graph up. I'll correct my tagging, thank you for pointing that out.

Finally, as I mentioned before, I was asking about many, many different types of plots, not just the couple we're looking at in this thread. It's possible that if you are in a clan you feel like you're better able to pursue small world building plots, but perhaps feel less able to pursue relationship plots, for example. This is a question which to be better explored more fully could use it's own poll, to distinguish which plots players feel are enhanced or not by clans. But for the moment, the graph shows the basic data that was collected.

Ah.

And am I correct in assuming that the number of polled here is 33 (for the first two) and 19 for the clan one?

I guess it's 33 that felt they were "interested people who participate"...

[Refugee]

I've not felt unable to insert myself into a plot in some way.  Ever!  But I purposely play PCs that would, because I like that.

Do you generally involve yourself with supporting the plots of others, initiating your own plots, or both?

What advice would you have for people who want to either be involved with the plots of others, or start their own? (Both in terms of getting support from staff and PCs or generally increasing their ability to participate)

My best advice is to identify the movers and shakers in your area and become someone one of them believes they can  trust to help them out (you don't have to actually be someone they can trust, haha).  People who can be trusted are rare and you'll be involved.  Variations on that theme will usually work and it gives you something to do with your PC as a goal.

I'm honestly not too good at coming up with plot ideas on my own, anything of note anyway, but when I do have something I like to bring in as many people as I can.  But in Arm there is so much MCB that your PC will probably hold things close, so you usually have to do that to be realistic in your RP.  What I like to do is get an idea and pass it on to someone else (like someone in a sponsored role), and help them make it happen.

[Miradus]

What exactly DOES constitute a plot in Armageddon?

I conspired to steal someone's stuffed belshun fruit once. Pretty satisfied with how that turned out. 9/10 ... would pilfer belshun again.

[Dunetrade55]

As far as plots that kill my PC, I'd rather have it come down to some no-name fucker misleading then killing me as opposed to being executed by my own clan... big time RPT deaths are another beast, I've thought some of them great, and others I felt badly over... most of my deaths are due to PK, a few to wildlife, and a few to RPT I should have known better than to attend... I don't know, if I'm enjoying my plots, yet I do what's IC for my character and attend this RPT, or trust my character's boss, then get a DING... I mean, it's all well and good but then I have to start all over being basically retarded at everything because I have no cgp to boost my skills with to really just jump in the thick of things.

So, I app a new PC and feel as vulnerable as a fetus, with no power to do anything whatsoever. This can be overcome somewhat because a good line of bullshit can be sold, provided no one meta games you, which, really that's not a huge deal if they do... they might find you with some lucky dice roles and savvy coincidences occurring simultaneously if they pursue the meta game. It's just, and, ugh, it's the grind. I mean, years, of, the, grind. I don't enjoy it at all, I also don't enjoy rebuilding my base of contacts slowly over time. I enjoy that sweet spot where things come together and small things happen, inconsequential things, storytelling, barter, petty conflict, you know, before the walls come down. Each slog to that spot seems more exhausting than the last. I can understand rebuilding my base of contacts, because like it or not, that's where the real power lies, it's just, ok, I'm helpless again, can't I play someone who's not utterly dependent?

[Wystan]

I think if you self start in the gameworld since Rath took over you can go wherever you want as long as you take the virtual world into account. I think a lot of people don't try because they have ptsd from years ago. Just try it. Trust me.

[Dunetrade55]

Yes, I must agree with Inks, staff facilitates plots much more than they have before. There's even been times where I wished up to talk to a particular NPC as part of a plot and staff is like, here ya go! I love that, feeling like, if there's a sufficient need to, I can interact with the world... I have memories of a time where I'd wish up about wanting to discuss an item for sale with a shopkeeper, and no answer... but contact Vennant with a prank call (don't do this, btw), and you'll get a fat warning in your inbox pretty quickly. I do like how staff is facilitating plots, but I've never been a huge fan of the awesome mega super RPT. It makes a great story for the survivors, if they tell it in detail...

"I was there, people died, life moves on."

True, true, but keep in mind a lot of people would like to be remembered, even if just a few details.

[mel]

I suppose people could take what I say with less than a grain of salt, but I've had a mixed bag so far when playing. I've not really anything to compare this to, however, as I haven't really been playing for years like others.

On one hand, I feel staff are sometimes unresponsive, as I've both wished in certain situations and have been part of a plot where I believe a staff member had disappeared in the middle, which, honestly, is alright. Things happen, and the staff are human as well. I don't expect them to be on twenty-four seven or be immune to something coming up, especially when there's only five or so people online.

On the other hand, I've wished up for small, honestly inane things before, like when my sid-pinching character 'refused' to pay another twenty sid to retrieve their beetle due to just having handing it over. I wished up for a staff member to help with the situation (and I was actually completely expecting either no help or being told to just pay) and they animated the giant to turn back around and 'hand' the reins back to my character. This, along with a few other situations that I think might have been animated are actually what sold me on Armageddon being this strange, living and breathing world that I could interact with, and in a way, it was the smaller touches that drew me more into the experience than the grand, intricately-planned-and-animated events, so far.

[nauta]

Hi,

This is meant to be friendly.  First, I want to clarify the charts a bit, in prose, since I had to spend a little time reading the questions then the chart then the questions to make sense of it.  Second, some brief analysis.  (Also: with surveys like this there is a good chance that the only ones who respond are those who are deeply satisfied or deeply unsatisfied.  Cf. Rate My Professor.)

1. How to read the charts?  (Taven, correct me if I'm wrong.)

First, there were 33 people who were very interested in plots in the fist place who discussed large scale plots, and 44 people who were very interested in plots who discussed small scale plots.   That's a very small number to work with.

Second, the questions put to these were all about your ability to pursue a plot: in general (first column), how much PC support you perceived receiving in pursuing the plot (second column), how much staff support you perceived receiving (third column).

Ok, hopefully that clears things up.  (So it isn't an issue of PC-plots vs. Staff-plots, which is what I at first thought.)

2. Large Scale Plots

Almost nobody (1-3 people) is satisfied -- neither in their ability to pursue the plot, nor in the amount of support they perceive other PCs given them, nor in the amount of support they perceive staff given them.  That's ... just very interesting. 

Small Scale Plots

With small scale plots, well over half are satisfied or content with our ability to pursue plots and the amount of support we receive from staff and players.

I'm not terribly sure what the take away should be, or, for that matter, if there should be a take away (again, with surveys like this, it is often the extremes who respond).

[Jihelu]

Wait so are we talking about plots/why we hate them/what not in this thread?



Alrighty lets get right into the noose news


Why I don't like most plots:

I dunno.
It's either show up and hit things or political roleplay and get twinked assassin or something so those don't interest me much.

I feel like a big plot generator would be someone pursuing magic/creating certain items with magic but I've been told the latter can not happen so that leaves me with:
A: Sending logs to staff of me jerking off with an element or
B: Do nothing with magick and have to pursue mundane plots.

As I primarily like to play magickers, though that doesn't mean I play a lot ;.;, and gemmed magickers that doesn't leave me with many opportunities to actually pursue plots.

But Jihelu, you say, if you wanted to pursue plots why would you play a gemmed.

To which I say
Because I wanted to play a gemmed or something.
Idk where I was going with this but something something let magickers have more plots involving their own element and let elemental items be created through roleplay.



Edit:
I feel like I should talk about some plots I do like so I don't seem like a big butt that just hates on everything.

Even though I think it seems contradictory to what I just said I really liked doing /anything/ with the Byn. The little cliques you build, just all of it was mega fun I think.

"I think if you self start in the gameworld since Rath took over you can go wherever you want as long as you take the virtual world into account. I think a lot of people don't try because they have ptsd from years ago. Just try it. Trust me."

Well from the requests they sound pretty certain that I can't do what I wanted to try.
Less this is one of those things where it's "Don't ask just start doing it then after three years of solo rping it will happen"
Which is dumb.