Elves: The Thread

[Dar]

Because half-elves are extremely useful. They are useful to 'everyone'. The breeds are the ones that go loner style into far reaches and greb/hunt/procure rare shit non-stop, even at the price of many many rl hours of grinding, just to come back to the city and be acknowledged by others. Tell me you have not encountered flak from everyone and their momma for picking at a breed, just because this particular breed is grebbing diamonds for people.

None of that. NONE OF THAT. NOOOOOOOOOOOONE OF THAT is available to Celves.

Generally speaking, amidst all avenues and things that people can be useful to other people, Celves only real main strength is awesomeness of roleplay. That's all. They are gimped in all the other social and coded ways. Unless you wanna hire someone to steal some shit and even then it's rarely used, mainly because not every Celf is an "expert" at theft.


Please dont misunderstand. I like Celves how they are? I'm totally against giving them delf run, or whatever.  Although that whole night vision (not infravision, but night vision) is pretty cool idea.

[evilcabbage]

half-elves can ride.

[Dakota]

You can\t talk about player dilution when Tuluk was closed.

all c-elves need is a clan / tribe that is open in an area that makes sense for the c-elf mindset and gameworld. The Rinth is an easy place / alraedy a place where it's worked.

I like the difficulty of c-elves. I like how narrow their options are based around their whole mindset / doc structure. It works.

C-elves have always been hardmode, which isn't a bad thing. It would just be helpful if they had an open tribe.

If you open other houses to c-elves, you risk losing the structured, racial hate for them, which does iso-them but also makes them super cool in the sense that they are among themselves when it comes to politics, self-interest.

[Dresan]

Again there are two clans already open to them. Byn, Kurac (and maybe dust runners in redstorm?). Which are in different locations which elves can join, same as half elves.

I don't think an additional c-elf only clan is going to help them and if other c-elves clans had 'worked' then they wouldn't be closed right now. Also I have yet to hear ideas how this c-elf clan will work/do, and intergrate c-elves into society while adding to the roleplay experience of the entire game like a clan like the byn or kurac currently do. What would a c-elf only clan offer that is different from the Guild? How would it interact with the Guild thats already in the rinth?

Honestly I think elves should be able to join the Guild (like they used to in the past) and we could call it a day here. C-elves would have a clan they can join in almost every location on top of players creating their own tribe/clans.  

And guess what, they would still be fustrating to play compared to the other races.

[Dakota]

oddly enough... i don't really find c-elves frustrating to play. HG's, Dwarves and Breeds, yes. Elves? Not @ all. Suppose I'm the minority though.

[nauta]

A kind of summary post:

This thread has been useful.  From what I can gather from posts up above, there are two main views being put forward (perhaps mutually exclusive, perhaps jointly exhaustive).

1. Make City Elves More 'Useful'.  The idea here is to make city elves more useful --- improve running, night vision, relaxing the racism documentation, relaxing the thievery constraint, let them ride things, etc.  Implicit, I imagine, is the concern that, although city elves can join certain clans (Kurac, T'zai Byn, Dust Runners, Guild), city elves as a race are not very useful to those clans, as compared to dwarves, half-giants, and breeds, both because of their 'stats' and also because of aspects of their docs that make elves not play well with other races (thievery, tribal pride, no-riding).  If we can 'fix' this, then perhaps city elves will be a perfectly fun option to play.

2. Give City Elves a Coded Tribe.  The idea here is to open up a certain aspect of roleplay -- tribal roleplay -- to city elves.  You could do this and not change city elves intrinsically -- keep the racism, keep the nerfed running, the thievery bent, etc.  (There's also a sub-worry about how to fit a city elf tribe into the existing structures, especially with respect to the rinth and the Guild, so as to make it both realistic and to balance gameplay, granted the 'unbreakable loyalty' of a city elf to his or her tribe.)  If we can come up with a thoughtful bit of documentation, then perhaps city elves, while still isolated from traditional 'clanlife', will be an interesting alternative, much as desert elves are.

I'm still inclined towards #2.  I view the tribal mindset of an elf as one of the most interesting things to play out, and, while there are exceptions to this, on my reading of the 'pride and tribe' aspect of an elf (in general), I wouldn't think very many city elves from a tribe would be inclined to join (roundear ruled) institutions such as the Byn, Kurac, etc.  (Of course, desert elves have joined Kurac in the past, at least according to the lore, and there are elves in the Byn, although it isn't clear to me what the history there might be.)  I admit that city elves will still be an isolated role, much like desert elves, and even more so, since, as well, city elves wouldn't really enjoy leaving the city on missions with, say, the Byn or the Kurac.

[whitt]

Of course, desert elves have joined Kurac in the past, at least according to the lore, and there are elves in the Byn, although it isn't clear to me what the history there might be.

Desert Elves worked with Kurac.  Not sure there is documented existence of Desert Elves being part of Kurac.

As for Elves in the Byn - I think it's within' the realm of current documentation that cElves might adopt the Byn as their tribe, with the rest test of Loyalty for their Sergeant / Lieutenant whatever level of unit they decided to consider their tribe.  At the bare-minimum, these shitcloaks are willing to give me all the food and water I can take for three small... how is that not a good deal?  Oh and I can run and hide inside the Compound walls.

I would like to see more tribes of elves, though, in the City.  There have been a few in the last couple years which is pomising and I think general # of PC Elves is currently on the rise, which is also promising.

[Hauwke]

I think when playing an elf, the tribe thing can be as Whitt says, whatever clan you join. It does make sense to me at the very least.

[whitt]

I think when playing an elf, the tribe thing can be as Whitt says, whatever clan you join. It does make sense to me at the very least.

Trick is finding a clan that can live up to the tests to earn the right to be considered your tribe.

[650Booger]

Idea, give City elves City run.

[Armaddict]

Idea, give City elves City run.

City elves in the city often don't pay movement costs and already have the fastest movement speed in the game (or immediately close to it).

[RogueGunslinger]

Yeah they kinda have city run. But there's quite a few roads/places that don't give you the benefit.

[Synthesis]

Yeah they kinda have city run. But there's quite a few roads/places that don't give you the benefit.

The benefit is everywhere.

Basically, you move so fast while running that nothing but another elf or someone who is using magick can shadow you (okay, I think half-giants might technically run faster, but I seriously doubt there are any half-giant assassins out there that are going to pass consecutive shadow checks while running).  This is a massive defense against getting PK'ed if you have safe spots to run to.

[RogueGunslinger]

I was talking specifically about the no stamina drain.

[Synthesis]

I was talking specifically about the no stamina drain.

Yeah, but that's not the only benefit.

Anyway, even in city rooms where c-elves lose stamina, they lose a point or two less than other races, so it's still a benefit.

[yousuff]

I was talking specifically about the no stamina drain.

Yeah, but that's not the only benefit.

Anyway, even in city rooms where c-elves lose stamina, they lose a point or two less than other races, so it's still a benefit.

Got bored and looked into this one day. Anywhere were there's large crowds you can run without penalty (bazaar, caravan's), for places like alleys and smaller roads you get penalised 1-2 stamina. That's kind of neat, but when you have such low base stamina running everywhere as a city elf still leaves you drained in short order.

[RogueGunslinger]

Humans lose 1 stam in most city streets while running. Caravans/stonecarvers/theyaks and whatnot and the bazaar being among them. Other streets cost 3 (Templars way, Tradesmans street) and a few transitions cost 2. Some random spots cost nothing at all.

[little chicken woman]

I'm not _great_ with elves, but I can play a mean dwarf.

Also, I'm loving that Templars aren't really doing Gaj runs anymore. It helps elves out, who already have a pretty efficient and ruthless Arm on their tail generally speaking.

I mean, sure, you can hide in the Byn compound the whole year, but you need a break from the other shitcloaks sometimes.

I just... sometimes I wish I could get into the whole Steal Stuff Excellently thing the same way I can get into the way Only Think of Your Goals thing. Maybe I should just accept that I'm better at playing one race over another. I've never tried a half-giant. I don't think I could take that level of wisdom.

I've noticed that as different humans with vastly different agilities and sometimes with heavy loads, stamina drains differently for different parts of the city. I don't think running in the city is a city elf thing. I think its a general stamina thing, and that city elves simply have the coding to make their equation zero for portions of the city.

Humans lose 1 stam in certain city streets while running. Caravans/stonecarvers/theyaks and whatnot and the bazaar being among them. Other streets cost 3 and a few cost 2. Some random spots cost nothing at all.

Yeah, this.

[little chicken woman]

I don't think an additional c-elf only clan is going to help them and if other c-elves clans had 'worked' then they wouldn't be closed right now.

I'm interested to know what staff's reply to this would be.

[Patuk]

The running within Allanak proper is neat and all, but it doesn't really save you from instant soldier subdue, which is your main problem if you're ever running away from something. This is made worse by the 'rinth having a death squad of a few half-giants guarding its entrance. How that doesn't devolve into three stooge level stupidity is beyond me.

[little chicken woman]

I read a few pages back and mostly there seems to be a call for a c-elf rinth clan. Which is good and all, but I think there could be a c-elf southside clan to start with. Get people used to the idea of elves with something resembling power and sway in the daily lives of commoners who need a hit or want someone mugged or killed. Also, when I played elves, a few people would just automatically assume I was rinthi (even though I never played anything but southside) before I opened my mouth. That was a bit jarring, and could be cleared up with a real southside presence of some sort.

[Majikal]

I keep thinking of things I'd like to share in this thread. Then I realize my position keeps changing.

I guess honestly I can't think of an answer that I'm confident enough in to stick with, I keep finding problems with every potential solution.

[Dar]

I always found running in the cities to be stupid. Try to go to downtown of whatever city you're in  and run. It doesnt matter if you get tired, or not, you'll be ping ponging from one person of the crowd to another.  I'd much prefer Celves be able to parkour the rooftops Ie ... cliiiiiimb.

[Narf]

This is made worse by the 'rinth having a death squad of a few half-giants guarding its entrance. How that doesn't devolve into three stooge level stupidity is beyond me.

I thought that was deemed a bug, and they were removed? Did they get replaced at some point?

[Synthesis]

I always found running in the cities to be stupid. Try to go to downtown of whatever city you're in  and run. It doesnt matter if you get tired, or not, you'll be ping ponging from one person of the crowd to another.  I'd much prefer Celves be able to parkour the rooftops Ie ... cliiiiiimb.

We're riding giant bugs around slaying shelled beasts with glass swords and fireballs, and this dude is over here worrying about how realistic it is to run in a crowd.