Karma: is it no longer fulfilling its intended purpose?

[Thunkkin]

normal sub-guilds become obsolete after a person gets a bit of karma.

Except for linguist! I wish trusted karma-card carrying players could be trusted with more languages...

[RogueGunslinger]

After the change there's actually 2-3 subguilds that I have considered over ext-subs.

[IntuitiveApathy]

I am still likely continue to pick mundane guilds/ext/subs after the magicker rework, though I might just try some of the new magicker extended subs out of sheer curiousity.  That isn't because of a lack of karma on my part, but because of my desire to play in roles that allow me more interaction with other players.  This issue is magnified for me due to being a mostly off-peak and sporadic player.

I don't see how mundane guilds are obsoleted in the game.  They might only be so if you consider them strictly by some sort of PK code ability.  You'd also have to leave out the fact that you can't craft any longer unless you're a merchant, and perhaps even more importantly, discard the consideration regarding the game world is still ostracizing your character as it would any other magicker.

[Armaddict]

I can understand this viewpoint.

But it's also helpful to remember that there are also people with karma who prefer to play mundane classes as a vast majority.
I don't have the data, but I know that I, personally, also choose normal subguilds fairly consistently as well.  I've had two extended subguild characters so far, and both were 'relatively' short-lived.

I do see some recent changes having a drastic impact on this particular concern, however, this is one of those areas where there is no logical recourse other than wait and see how this can be tweaked; after changes that are going into place right now, of course the whole Karma system will be a little...tilted...until such a time as everything falls into its place.

[hyzhenhok]

... Frankly, I think it implies something very unpleasant: that karma was never about trust. It was never about preventing abuse. It was about rewarding (some) veterans with perks. And that proposed CGP system just makes that explicitly true. ...

I disagree.  It makes perfect sense to me why ESG are behind a karma wall:

Staff trust is required for more codedly powerful things.
More codedly powerful things are behind a karma wall.
Extended subguilds are more codedly powerful things.
Extended subguilds are behind a karma wall.

Pretty dubious logic there. It takes an extremely fuzzy definition of "more powerful" to put extended subguilds in the same category as magickers and muls. It's very, very hard to see why slipknifes or protectors or master crafters are "more powerful" to the extent that they need to be out of the hands of new players.

[Dresan]

Just to clarify I'm not saying mundane sub-guilds are obsolete, I still have a hard time choosing between protector on my ranger and slip-knife after the change. Instead what I'm saying is with just a bit of karma the 0 karma sub-guilds become more obsolete. The old karma system does not give me a reason to pick gladiator over the more powerful aggressor, and there is no reason why not to pick it or another equally powerful (and just plain fun) extended sub-guild every single time.

Again this is compounded by the fact that with a bit of karma there are so many additional powerful choices now with the elementalist change, even if people are just trying out due to curiosity. Again overall I still believe it is a good change, because even if people choose them, the do feel more like people first, and with full guilds have an easier time integrating with mundanes.

I suppose its just something to think about at this point, especially with the guild changes coming.

[MeTekillot]

http://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,48860.0.html

[Rathustra]

http://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,48860.0.html

Remember when my posts were funny.

[Vwest]

I'm logging out to go to subway now :/

[th3kaiser]

Now I want a shitty subway BMT. Thanks.  

[BadSkeelz]

Subway is the obsolete low-capped few-skills mundane guild of sandwich shops.

[Rathustra]

Subway is the obsolete low-capped few-skills mundane guild of sandwich shops.

I don't have the karma for Quiznos.

[th3kaiser]

Hey Rath, can you give me the point of Karma back that I lost so I can go to Potbelly's?

[Armaddict]

Subway is the obsolete low-capped few-skills mundane guild of sandwich shops.

I don't have the karma for Quiznos.

That's because Quiznos is magickal.

[Rathustra]

Subway is the obsolete low-capped few-skills mundane guild of sandwich shops.

I don't have the karma for Quiznos.

That's because Quiznos is magickal.

Can't decide between aspect of salami and sandwich touched.

[Armaddict]

...please no touching salami.

[Thunkkin]

"Salami touched" was going to be my next dwarf concept ...

[CodeMaster]

I think a valid point is being made here, but I also feel for the staff who are sponging up criticism over a system that's a current work in progress.  These are exciting times to be playing.

My two cents are that it might make more sense if the subguilds that required karma were the ones whose implied backgrounds are specialized and require a matured understanding of the game world to depict.  So based on title alone (and the implied biography, not the skills), playing a "gladiator" requires more knowledge about the game than a newbie might possess -- but we'd expect them to do fine with a far more generic "thug" or "aggressor" background.  Same with "nomad", "linguist", "majordomo",  and "physician" -- roles that require knowledge of the RP elements of the languages, the nobility's relationship with a city, and our brand of primitive medicine - respectively.

[Bogre]

wtf guys sandwiches are retconned

it's like nothing matters anymore

[Zoan]

wtf guys sandwiches are retconned

it's like nothing matters anymore

yeah i quit

i mean i already quit but i super quit now

uninstalling armageddon

[hyzhenhok]

wtf guys sandwiches are retconned

it's like nothing matters anymore

yeah i quit

i mean i already quit but i super quit now

uninstalling armageddon

I canceled my subscription and filed chargebacks.

[Asmoth]

I'm still waiting for the DLC that was promised in the season pass I bought... I am feeling cheated!

[Thunkkin]

Back on topic:

Karma for magick-subguilds: Makes lots of sense.
Karma for mundane extended subguilds: Makes less sense. The only issue, in my mind, is too many mastercrafts if the floodgates were opened. But then, what percentage of the active player base has access to ext crafting subguilds anyway? I'm guess it's a substantial percentage.

[Asmoth]

Back on topic:

Karma for magick-subguilds: Makes lots of sense.
Karma for mundane extended subguilds: Makes less sense. The only issue, in my mind, is too many mastercrafts if the floodgates were opened. But then, what percentage of the active player base has access to ext crafting subguilds anyway? I'm guess it's a substantial percentage.

I agree with this.  I get the need to vet the people throwing spells that can kill a 30 day warrior in one cast.

I don't get the need to stop people from being GOOD at shit (crafts/more skills than their guild gives).

[Norcal]

Back on topic:

Karma for magick-subguilds: Makes lots of sense.
Karma for mundane extended subguilds: Makes less sense. The only issue, in my mind, is too many mastercrafts if the floodgates were opened. But then, what percentage of the active player base has access to ext crafting subguilds anyway? I'm guess it's a substantial percentage.

Too many mastercrafts?   As I mentioned in my earlier post, zero karma players are encouraged to play Merchants. Once skilled up, Merchants can mastercraft in numerous different crafting areas.

If as a new player staff trust me enough to let me mastercraft a sword as a Merchant, then I see no reason why they should not trust me to mastercraft a sword as a Ranger. 

Unless of course I am a touched Ranger, salami or otherwise.

Currently karma is being used for two things: Restricting access to some roles to only trusted players and as a perk. It is described as being used only for the former reason. That is not a bad thing, to use it for perks, yet I can see why there is a bit of confusion.