Replace normal subs with the extended subs.

[MeTekillot]

I think that the mundane extended subguilds should be outside of the proposed CGP system. I personally don't believe that they hold any more potential for abuse or upset of game balance than the skills that normal guilds get that could be misused anyway. Perhaps, in the interest of making sure a newbie doesn't jump into the game with dorf warrior/slipknife and begin backstabbing sponsored roles, we could have the extended subguilds remain the way they are currently, but have them become available for open, normal application at 1 karma.

[Delirium]

Extended subs are often notably more powerful than normal subguilds. They should cost a minimum of CGP.

[BadSkeelz]

But they're only powerful in relation to normal subguilds. If you replaced normal subs with extended subs, that imbalance would disappear.

You'd have to add some more extended subguilds (like a Nomad one, or one for bards) but I kind of like the idea. It'd move us closer to a "guild-less" system and allow a lot more avenues for character development. It'd also help out those of us who pick things like warrior/thug on our early characters for flavor reasons without understanding the min/max reality of subguilds.

[Desertman]

I like the mix and match.

I like wondering if Amos is a standard weapons crafter or a master weapon maker. If we go with just one or the other...well...then it's obvious.

Is Amos a warrior with the hunter subclass or is he a warrior with the outdoorsman subclass? Hmmm. I guess we will find out over time, if at all.

I like more options and more variables.

[Zoan]

The only thing I believe is that Met is addicted to creating polls.

[MeTekillot]

The people need a VOICE.

[Patuk]

I think it'd be fine after adjusting for subguilds that lack extended versions. That said, some magickers with particularly strong mundane extended subs like a buffed thug or somesuch would be crazily powerful.

[MeTekillot]

They would already be spending CGP/karma to play their magicker guild.

[RogueGunslinger]

I'm okay with this idea.

[Rathustra]

Replace all subs with italian bmt.

[MeTekillot]

I'LL BE THE ONE WHO DOES THE NON SEQUITURS HERE.

[Talia]

The intention when the extended subguilds / skill bumps for CGP system was designed was to give veteran players a bit more leeway and options when designing their PCs, and/or to let them have PCs that were more powerful out of the box. These are both things that players were asking for, for quite some time. Though previously both extra skills and skill bumps had been done by special application, this is a systematic way of doing it that is fair for everyone* and which requires almost nothing in the way of judgment calls for staff. (I.e., either you have the CGP for what you're asking for, or you don't.)

These are still seen as extras, not basics. I don't foresee us ever changing over to a system of all extended subguilds, all the time. If a player burns through his/her CGP or special app slots and then must play something that's not special or bumped...well, that's how it works.

* Unless you would argue that karma is inherently unfair. I don't agree, but that's a possible opinion.

[MeTekillot]

My proposition is that the guilds are the basics, and the subguilds would be the extras.

EDIT: Considering that extended subs don't have the breadth of skills that the main guilds do, and the ones they do have typically aren't trainable up to main guild levels.

[Rathustra]

Five dollar footlong.

[Desertman]

Still laughing.

[MeTekillot]

[Talia]

Once upon a time there were no subguilds at all. The basic subguilds we do have were already extra. Food for thought!

[MeTekillot]

We didn't used to have computers. Telegrams used to be considered extras. Food for thought!

[Rathustra]

Did somebody say....

FOOD?

[MeTekillot]

[wizturbo]

Personally I like the current system.

I'd be happy to see some "super" extended subguilds that are more than 3 CGP, so that there's a karma gate to being able to access the extended subguild entirely.  Perhaps these could be used to open up some of the more rare/controlled skills out there, or have other pre-packaged mundane skill lists that might otherwise be inaccessible to unproven players.

Having skills like read/write, baby elementalist subguilds (like the new sorcs, but with limited elementalist powers instead), special weapon skills, illegal or rare languages, or other cool ideas that are often requested but currently don't have an easy way to access short of a full on special app.

[Dresan]

Dat trolling, Rathustra. Smack yourself with a ban hammer.


Extended sub-guilds are really powerful in the sense that they really blur the inherent strengths and weakness of the main classes in a much more profound way then regular sub-guilds.  Are they more prone to abuse? Not really, but but not sure if it would be a good thing for the game if people everyone had access to them all the time and could individually do more and required less help (interaction) with each other.

I dunno, unless grebber gets tribal accent and bendune I'm still rolling nomad+ skill bumps.

[racurtne]

Dat trolling, Rathustra. Smack yourself with a ban hammer.


Extended sub-guilds are really powerful in the sense that they really blur the inherent strengths and weakness of the main classes in a much more profound way then regular sub-guilds.  Are they more prone to abuse? Not really, but but not sure if it would be a good thing for the game if people everyone had access to them all the time and could individually do more and required less help (interaction) with each other.

I dunno, unless grebber gets tribal accent and bendune I'm still rolling nomad+ skill bumps.

[RogueGunslinger]

6 CGP to dual-guild. Let's do it!

[Dresan]

Dat trolling, Rathustra. Smack yourself with a ban hammer.


Extended sub-guilds are really powerful in the sense that they really blur the inherent strengths and weakness of the main classes in a much more profound way then regular sub-guilds.  Are they more prone to abuse? Not really, but but not sure if it would be a good thing for the game if people everyone had access to them all the time and could individually do more and required less help (interaction) with each other.

I dunno, unless grebber gets tribal accent and bendune I'm still rolling nomad+ skill bumps.

Unless I missed something when reading this:

Grebbers are skilled in gathering materials in the wilderness. To this end they also possess some ability in guiding a mount and a canny sense of direction. Often opportunists, they are able to track small game with the more successful amongst them learning to climb as to reach places others can not.

Then nope, and extra accent and language is cool for the characters I generally like to play. But yeah sure,