Karma: is it no longer fulfilling its intended purpose?

[Nergal]

I might request my notes sometime, but honestly until recently they were all negative I'm sure.

I wonder if there should be a statute of limitations (or whatever you call it) on bad account notes? Like 2 - 3 years and negative notes are forgiven. (Deleted in your next karma review.)

I don't personally consider negative character or account notes more than a year old (or before the last karma review, whichever is more recent) to be relevant, unless they're part of a trend that is still ongoing. Not to speak for all staff but I think we generally think a similar way with regards to old notes. Leaving old negative notes there is a means of demonstrating improvement over time.

[Desertman]

I have five karma.

This tells me the following:

I don't roleplay well enough to get karma point 6.

My leaders aren't good enough leaders to get karma point 7.

After almost 20 years of play I don't understand the culture of the world well enough for karma point 8.


I'll just have console myself with the 32 kudos I have from other players who played with me who believe exactly the opposite. (With 12 of those coming for a single leader for being a great leader in the eyes of other players.)

(This is meant to be tongue-in-cheek, for the most part. My point is that even if you are good at these things and everyone else and their mother thinks you are good at these things.......the only thing that matters is that a staffer somewhere takes a personal interest in you to award said karma. I have no idea what I got my five karma points for. I may have gotten one of them for "being a good leader". But, if I got that "leader point" for karma number 2, I basically wasted it when it could have been "worth" karma point 7. It seems like there should be some more structure in place for this sort of thing.)

Also, Valeria is a great player and deserves every one of these karma points. I'm just using her post to illustrate that this system really does need more structure.

I'm also not saying "I need more karma". I don't use it anyways beyond karma point 3, and that was for a couple of short-lived half-giants I tinkered with for a bit between characters before storing them.

[valeria]

This tells me the following:

I don't roleplay well enough to get karma point 6.

My leaders aren't good enough leaders to get karma point 7.

After almost 20 years of play I don't understand the culture of the world well enough for karma point 8.

I know your post was tongue in cheek, but I want to make sure that other players know that you can get all the karmas without doing everything.  For instance, I have 0 points in "understanding of magick and its place in the game world."  Probably because I very very rarely play magickers.  I've done like 3 months of magicker play in seven years.

Anyway, it isn't about personal interest anymore (since late 2011), it's about asking to have your karma reviewed.  The gap between 10/01/13 and 9/27/15 is because I couldn't be bothered to ask for a karma review.  And even before that, I've pretty consistently requested my account notes because I wanted to keep tabs on my account notes and keep up my excel file of what I've played, how many hours, how they died, etc, because I'm a dork.  If you haven't been asking, you probably just haven't been looked at.

[Rathustra]

Just in case anyone wanted to see the karma record for a Producer:

Code Select Expand


Set account karma to 1, for roleplaying [PC] very nicely during a gith duel in the sands, which he lost. -  9/14/08.
Set account karma to 2, for wonderful play with [PC].  Helped keep people interested, worked actively with all factions of Tuluk, and got things done. -  7/15/09.
Set account karma to 3, nice job with [PC] -  7/28/09.


[Desertman]

This tells me the following:

I don't roleplay well enough to get karma point 6.

My leaders aren't good enough leaders to get karma point 7.

After almost 20 years of play I don't understand the culture of the world well enough for karma point 8.

I know your post was tongue in cheek, but I want to make sure that other players know that you can get all the karmas without doing everything.  For instance, I have 0 points in "understanding of magick and its place in the game world."  Probably because I very very rarely play magickers.  I've done like 3 months of magicker play in seven years.

Anyway, it isn't about personal interest anymore (since late 2011), it's about asking to have your karma reviewed.  The gap between 10/01/13 and 9/27/15 is because I couldn't be bothered to ask for a karma review.  And even before that, I've pretty consistently requested my account notes because I wanted to keep tabs on my account notes and keep up my excel file of what I've played, how many hours, how they died, etc, because I'm a dork.  If you haven't been asking, you probably just haven't been looked at.

Yeah, I've never asked for a review.

You got me there.

[Desertman]

Just in case anyone wanted to see the karma record for a Producer:

Code Select Expand


Set account karma to 1, for roleplaying [PC] very nicely during a gith duel in the sands, which he lost. -  9/14/08.
Set account karma to 2, for wonderful play with [PC].  Helped keep people interested, worked actively with all factions of Tuluk, and got things done. -  7/15/09.
Set account karma to 3, nice job with [PC] -  7/28/09.


lelgetrekt scrublord

come 2 my howse so i can teech u how 2 derf

[Delirium]

Honesty time?

I've never once asked for my account notes. Not ever. It makes me feel uncomfortable to think of being observed.

I'm mostly afraid I'm going to see stuff in there that's way off base or is super judge-y, because, let's face it, I don't often feel like staff is always there to support my fun, I feel like they're there to judge me.

Necessary disclaimer: I know that this isn't true for all of staff, but this is how I tend to feel based on the prevailing attitudes and actions I have observed in the last ~7 years.

I have full karma, and I do feel like I deserve it, because I've never done anything that makes me feel like I don't - but I still constantly feel like I'm being judged on if I'm worthy of keeping it.

So for my sanity, I just pretend that things like account notes and karma don't exist. That way I can just have fun without suffering from performance anxiety.

Maybe that's the secret?

[Desertman]

Honesty time?

I've never once asked for my account notes. Not ever. It makes me feel uncomfortable to think of being observed.

I'm mostly afraid I'm going to see stuff in there that's way off base or is super judge-y, because, let's face it, I don't often feel like staff is always there to support my fun, I feel like they're there to judge me.

Necessary disclaimer: I know that this isn't true for all of staff, but this is how I tend to feel based on the prevailing attitudes and actions I have observed in the last ~7 years.

I have full karma, and I do feel like I deserve it, because I've never done anything that makes me feel like I don't - but I still constantly feel like I'm being judged on if I'm worthy of keeping it.

So for my sanity, I just pretend that things like account notes and karma don't exist. That way I can just have fun without suffering from performance anxiety.

Maybe that's the secret?

I'm going to be honest as well. This is pretty much me.

[Pale Horse]

What Delirium said.

Maybe it's endemic to "veterans" as veteran = players with "above average" karma.  Worry, worry, worry.

[valeria]

Account notes and karma review are separate options now as well. What people should be asking for is a karma review if they think they deserve one, not account notes anymore. And the karma review doesn't come with notes attached.

[Thunkkin]

Set karma to 3, Took the restrictions and such of Kadian Junior
Trader in great stride, and was very responsible about it. -  8/21/10.

<3 Really wish we'd managed to arrange a marriage ...

Oh, and since everyone is telling their secrets.

I've never requested a karma report. I'm afraid to look, honestly. I requested my notes after my first long-lived char and I didn't have any notes. I have three karma. First gained after I spec apped a d-elf. Second after a long-lived Kuraci junior agent, I think. Third during a medium-lived Kadian agent. My often limited play times, propensity to enjoy the grind, and a poorly handled interaction with staff back in 2010 mean that I'm completely content with my karma and I don't feel like I deserve or need more.

[Beethoven]

It doesn't seem right to me that someone like me has the same amount of karma as someone like Dman. He's been playing about three times as long as I have and is well-known as a leader and roleplayer. Maybe it's just because he hasn't asked for a review, but I haven't asked that much, either.

I guess karma is a very individual thing and we probably shouldn't be going around comparing, but reading something like that makes me feel like I deserve less than I have.

EDIT: I also get that feeling like I'm constantly in danger of losing my karma. At least it keeps me on my toes and steers me away from falling too deeply into my bad habits.

[Asmoth]

One thing that I can tell you WON'T get you Karma is assuming the worst when Staff contact you.

Years ago when staff would contact me and say, "Hey why did you do this?"

Or I get the dreaded
A staff member sends: DUM DUM DUMMMMMM

In game.

I would instantly be back on my heels and be ready with venom and spite.

"How dare they ask my motivations!?  It's my character fuck them!" or similar thoughts went through my head.

Then when it came time to wish all or respond to that staff opened request, I would be in the wrong mindset and go in with a fuck you type mentality.

I now try to be much more civil and just be accommodating. I recently got the dreaded staff member sends about something that while I didn't really agree with, I figured it wasn't a huge ask from them either so I said.

Okay, I'll keep an eye on it.

So far nothing has come of it negatively.

Plus who knows, it also might have been that me and Nyr just didn't have good chemistry.  But this current group of admin seems super reasonable and easy to deal with.

So moral of the story, don't take things super personal like I used to, don't view it as they are saying you suck if they approach you with something, ask questions, explain yourself and if they say, "We'd rather not have you do this." say OK.

[IAmJacksOpinion]

I don't personally consider negative character or account notes more than a year old (or before the last karma review, whichever is more recent) to be relevant, unless they're part of a trend that is still ongoing. Not to speak for all staff but I think we generally think a similar way with regards to old notes. Leaving old negative notes there is a means of demonstrating improvement over time.

That is GTK. Every time I revisit my account notes, I find this oldie from like my first year of play about how I basically spent a couple hours running around the desert spam killing and sleeping, and I think to myself "That's not fair! I'm much less obvious about how I abuse the virtual world these days!" :p

[LauraMars]

I have full karma, and I do feel like I deserve it, because I've never done anything that makes me feel like I don't - but I still constantly feel like I'm being judged on if I'm worthy of keeping it.

Yup

Sometimes I just want to make a character who roams the wastes, forages for salt without emoting, and quits without interacting with another person, but I worry that as an 8 karma player it will get me a silent bad note I'll never be informed of.

just how I feel

[whitt]

I'll just have console myself with the 32 kudos I have from other players who played with me who believe exactly the opposite. (With 12 of those coming for a single leader for being a great leader in the eyes of other players.)

Moral of this story?  Send more kudos!  They really are like the coolest thing ever to get especially for a new player.

There should be a thread for this...

[Asmoth]

Be very careful on the gdb as well.  I just recieved my Karma review and was told that they feel I require too much moderation on here.

Which I accept, sometimes I do lose my cool on the boards.  That's always been one of the things I didn't really like about the karma system, your actions on the board overrule what you do in character and how you play them.

But it is what it is, can't change the way shit works. So if you find yourself in the same boat as me, just stop posting on the gdb and at least that's one thing that can't be counted against you.

[Bogre]

About account notes I feel similar.

I have literally Armed for more than half my life, and through all of my school - highschool, college and medical school. I requested my account notes once, in like 2008, and there's one in there from 2003 that I winced and went, "Oh, that is angsty 14 year old me." I'm glad to be on a much more even keel now.

Interestingly enough, though...


...As of this point, I've gotten more karma as a high schooler and college freshman than I have as a surgeon.

[SuchDragonWow]

Karma needs to become an expendable resource that regenerates over time, the way they described CGP would be.  Everyone gets Karma + 3 = CGP.  Will people still bitch and moan about favoritism?  Well, duh.  That's normal, IMO.  But at least it would be more fair if everyone had a regular crack at the plate.

[BadSkeelz]

Unless it's changed, people already get to spec-app for something 3 levels above their karma level. A zero karma player can play a half-giant, or some magickers, or an extended subguild. They just have to expend a spec-app which are limited. I don't see much difference between the "regenerating karma/CGP system" and what we have now, honestly, at least when it comes to giving lower-karma players a chance to play otherwise locked PCs.

Now, if you want to limit the amount of extended subguilds, magickers, muls and half-giants in the game at anyone one time, yeah, such a system might do that. I'm just not sure I'd agree with it.

[Armaddict]

Be very careful on the gdb as well.  I just recieved my Karma review and was told that they feel I require too much moderation on here.

Unless it's something where you're breaking rules of the game consistently, i.e. spreading info, flaming, etc...it shouldn't affect your karma levels, and should be taken as feedback from staff on your 'standing'.  At least, that's the impression I get from reading my account notes.  Then again, those account notes are from a different era.

So I 'unno!

[Beethoven]

This thread is sort of making me want to put in a request for a karma review, and sort of making me never want to put one in again. I'm torn, so maybe I'll just bite the bullet and put in a review to see what happens. I don't think I'll get my sixth but I might get some helpful advice about how to work towards it.

[SuchDragonWow]

To add to the discussion after perusing some posts in this thread, the examples given does make it awkwardly apparent that some players are uneven from others, and for seemingly arbitrary reasons that could come across entirely as favoritism.  I suppose if I cared, I would find some complaint in it.  Specific reference = Dman:Valeria.

[valeria]

To add to the discussion after perusing some posts in this thread, the examples given does make it awkwardly apparent that some players are uneven from others, and for seemingly arbitrary reasons that could come across entirely as favoritism.  I suppose if I cared, I would find some complaint in it.  Specific reference = Dman:Valeria.

I'm pretty sure he admitted he never asks for karma reviews, and I basically asked for them every chance I got. That's not arbitrary, that's a case of "if you don't ask they won't answer yes."

[MeTekillot]

Every single point of karma I have I specifically asked for, and some of the times I asked I was told no. I have sent in account notes and karma review requests almost to the day every six months.

Set karma to 1, On
recommendation of Storytellers who think it's worth giving him a shot. -
11/03/10.
Set karma to 2, for great RP with Errigson -  3/04/12.
Set karma to
3, for racial understanding -  9/03/12.
Set karma to 4, second rp point (1
longevity, 2 rp, 1 racial) - 11/03/14.
Set karma to 5, adding a point for
magick understanding -  2/23/16.