Magickal auto-defense system in Cities

[Incognito]

So, we've had this implemented for a while now, and I thought it'd be worthwhile to ask players and Staff alike, what they think about it.

Is it something that's worked to the betterment of the game?

Would we like a roll-back on this "feature" and go back to the old ways?

Are there any tweaks that anyone wants to suggest?

In particular, do magickers feel they've been neutered in any way?

Personally, I'm of the opinion that it was more fun and dangerous - when magick wasn't auto-magickally neutralized and detected in the City-States. Same goes for auto-crim-code for casting in certain places - which used to be kosher earlier. Yes, there were some players who did abuse certain spells from time to time, and I think that the changes to those specific spells is enough to curtail the overpowered ease with which they could be used to kill/subdue/*do other bad things* to other PCs. What are your thoughts? Please share.

[RogueGunslinger]

I've run into it once. I casted just outside of Tuluk, and got a weird echo, thought it was some sort of skill failure.

Then I walked into Morins and had a bunch of soldiers subdue me and... Just hold me there. Heh.

I don't really like it. It's bullshit to me that there's some sort of "auto" magick detection system. It's basically taking the shitty parts of crim-code and running with them. Get rid of it, it doesn't add fuck-all to the game.

[Beethoven]

I've encountered it and I strongly dislike it.

[wizturbo]

I'm not a fan.  My biggest gripes about the system is that it's very inconsistent, and doesn't reinforce a fear of magick users.

It's inconsistent because very magickal things can happen in the city, like someone walking through the gates with skin made of stone, or animated corpses walking through the streets and there is no response.  Have a ball of fire following you while you walk down caravan's road?  No problem, welcome to Allanak!  This is because the code reacts to casting magick, not the presence of magick.  If you have skin of stone and try and pass through the gates, you should be arrested.  Doesn't matter if you cast it or not.  If someone put a grenade in someone's backpack and they tried to walk into an airport, they'd be arrested, it doesn't matter if they put the grenade there or not.   It's clearly code that's there to prevent player abuse, not actually reinforce the setting.  I hate things like that, Armageddon is supposed to be my sanctuary from mechanics that break immersion like so many other games.

I don't see how these magickal protections help reinforce a fear and distrust of magick users.  It's hard to ask players to roleplay a fear of magick, when they've never been negatively affected by magick, nor has anyone they know, because there are powerful and unstoppable magickal protections in place that prevent those things from happening.  It's hard to be scared of the dark when the entire city has a night light.  

And then there's the secrecy of the whole thing.  Rather than explicitly detail what magickal protections are in place, they were implemented and then left as "Find out IC".  For many players, playing an elementalist or sorcerer is a special application.  The idea of potentially throwing away that special role to test these magickal defenses and try and understand how they work probably doesn't appeal to most players, I know it certainly doesn't appeal to me and I don't have to special app for these roles.   I was playing a rogue magicker at the time these protections were released, and it neutered my character...  Not because the code stopped them from doing things, but because I suddenly had no idea what I could or could not do.  I ended up getting a Gem, and my rogue magicker concept was tossed into the dustbin.  Maybe that was the intention of these changes though?  Make playing rogue magickers less appealing?  If so, it worked marvelously well.

[RogueGunslinger]

Get rid of it, it doesn't add fuck-all to the game.

But get rid of Nil reach as well.

[wizturbo]

Get rid of it, it doesn't add fuck-all to the game.

But get rid of Nil reach as well.

+1

Nil should no longer be a starting reach for any elementalist.  I'm not a fan of removing more magickal things from the game entirely, but it should be something you have to acquire.

Many of these magickal protections would not be necessary if the added risk or inconvenience of having to use 'un' for all your spells was in place.

I also like the idea of elementalists having difficulty controlling their magicks, it's something that should set them apart from sorcery, making them more or less dangerous depending on your perspective.

[Incognito]

Nil reach is required.

Especially for those players who're playing magickers for the first time, and need to figure out spell combinations on their own. It might seem useless or redundant for players who've played magickers in the past and know the words to various spells.

Experimenting with Un all the time, is cumbersome, dangerous and liable to get a PC into trouble, depending on their location and also depending on the spell being cast.

[RogueGunslinger]

You lost me. What does finding the right words have to do with un or nil?

It doesn't seem useless or redundant. It seems like easy-mode...

Maybe Nil reach should come with the Gem?

[Incognito]

You lost me. What does finding the right words have to do with un or nil?

1) Nil uses less mana than Un.
2) Nil can be used to figure out spell word combos without casting the spell with a "real effect".

But lets please get back on topic, we can discuss the worth of Nil in another topic!

[wizturbo]

Experimenting with Un all the time, is cumbersome, dangerous and liable to get a PC into trouble, depending on their location and also depending on the spell being cast.

All of these things you just listed seem like reasons for Nil being less widely available, not arguments against it.

[MeTekillot]

A Suk-Krathi who fences in a chalton until he can get his 'un' spells to work on it because he can't practice with 'nil' anymore, heheh.

[RogueGunslinger]

Here's a thread for nil/un: http://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,50797.msg933239.html#new

[FantasyWriter]

I play lots of magickers.  I seldom, if ever use nil reach out of principle, and probably most of my PCs have -never- used nil, and I've played all flavors before, so it is definitely not required.
I remember one good IC argument for nil and that was a preserver not wanting to use niliazi magicks "out loud" but wanting to explore their potential in case of SHTF emergencies.

Lack of 'nil' is not game breaking in any way, simply an OOC inconvenience to those who prefer the easy road.
A krathi/elkran should not be able to survive inside the magickers quarter or their hidden apartment for a few IG years, then walk out and Hiroshima a three block radius without ever having really experienced true magick.

I would like to see a code that would allow nil to branch from un at the same rate as a normal mundane skill if not even the same rate as a weapons skill, and THEN maybe have something else branch from nil.  This would give magicker players a long term goal to pursue since they normally hit the coded glass ceiling much earlier than combat PCs.  It would also slow the rated of magicker growth overally which isn't really bad for anyone.

A magicker out in the wild using their magick to survive -should- be stronger than someone who never left the city.
RL example: A mountain man will always be better at survival than someone who has spent all their life reading survival books and watching survival videos on YouTube.

[FantasyWriter]

Oops, was already posting...

[wizturbo]

The topics are related.

Take away nil, ease off some of the new magickal protections (there were plenty of old ones in place before that seemed good).  Those two things should help balance things out and add more grit to magick.

[Pale Horse]

Edit: Nothing to see here.

[Molten Heart]

Getting rid of the nil reach doesn't seem like a well thought out idea. What about spells that have bad or undesirable effects, or are combat spells to be used against enemies? The heat of battle seems like a bad time to practice. One would want to be well practiced when the time comes to apply certain spells to a real task.

[Patuk]

I happened to have a character die a day after the protection change went in, so I went and made a magicker at that point to test them out. Wasn't much of a fan back then, still not too impressed by it right now.

[BadSkeelz]

I have to agree. There's a disappointing lack of lightning bolts and explosions in the current auto-defense code.

[Jingo]

I actually don't know what they look like in Allanak currently. But in Tuluk they were a plate of bullshit and chips. It seemed like it was specifically designed to replace the previous bullshit and chips system *COUGH* Lirathans *COUGH*.

No, I don't understand the need for these protections. Getting auto-crimmed for casting where someone can see you is good enough. Any further uncovering of magickers should involve detective work from the players.

[Warsong]

Getting rid of the nil reach doesn't seem like a well thought out idea. What about spells that have bad or undesirable effects, or are combat spells to be used against enemies? The heat of battle seems like a bad time to practice. One would want to be well practiced when the time comes to apply certain spells to a real task.

Well, you can't practice assassination by thrusting your dagger through the air and making stabbing sounds with your mouth.

[Lizzie]

I have no idea what the auto-defense system is. I don't think I really need to learn about it here either - whatever it is, it hasn't affected me - ever. So I'd have to say - it doesn't matter if it stays the same or reverts to something it used to be.

[roughneck]

I think it makes sense and I don't feel like it's affected me much.

But I also think it's made the game very slightly more boring in that there's very slightly less opportunity for villains to villainous things.

[Jingo]

Like I said, I really don't know what it looks like in Allanak at the moment. If it's half as bad at the Tuluk system, I don't think I could ever bring myself to play a mage again.

[Molten Heart]

Getting rid of the nil reach doesn't seem like a well thought out idea. What about spells that have bad or undesirable effects, or are combat spells to be used against enemies? The heat of battle seems like a bad time to practice. One would want to be well practiced when the time comes to apply certain spells to a real task.

Well, you can't practice assassination by thrusting your dagger through the air and making stabbing sounds with your mouth.

People do.