Discussion: Open Letter to the Playerbase

[Maziel]

Yeah, hostility and suspicion (especially to unfamiliar posters) is kinda exactly what the trolls want. They're not worth any more than a shrug and an eyeroll, in my opinion.

I'm not sure if you're calling me a troll or not. 

[Insigne]

Yeah, hostility and suspicion (especially to unfamiliar posters) is kinda exactly what the trolls want. They're not worth any more than a shrug and an eyeroll, in my opinion.

I'm not sure if you're calling me a troll or not. 

Nah, I think he meant those guys on the shadowboards (?)

[BadSkeelz]

Nah. The hacker and those who think he struck some sort of Edward Snowden blow for liberty, those are the trolls. Everyone else are just people with their own set of feelings.

Sorry for the confusion.

[Vwest]

Apparently Jeshin has been banned. He's the optional realities guy. His interest has always seemed to be half scientific and half news reporting. Banning him from a board he doesn't post in for taking interest in the how's and why's seems excessive. Maybe I'll get banned for raising awareness, but this is a line that I won't stand idly by for. He's a reasonable, well mannered individual. You should be seeking advice from the guy making it his prerogative to learn these things to help create a richer RPI scene, not banning him.

Also please don't ban me  

I'm holding out hope that people don't still have to be concerned about something like this.

Excuse me if I'm stepping out of line. I think Maziel brings up a good point. What is to gain from banning the likes of Jeshin or RedRanger? I don't know. Unless there's something I'm missing, I hope this decision gets reconsidered.

I agree completely.

He was a serious voice of reason in SoI and has been a pretty easy going mediator type in most circles he's passed through. What we could ever hope to gain from banning him is completely beyond me, especially considering the strides OR has made in giving the RPI genre (and most games in it, including Arm) another venue for exposure. We're not exactly swimming in new blood in the RPI community and anyone looking to improve that situation should be enjoying a degree of diplomatic immunity.

I only played with RR a couple of times here and some on EoE, but he seemed pretty easy going, too.

If there's something these guys did beyond give their opinion on an evolving situation, I'd be curious to know what it was.

Does anyone remember those 'hardcore' console warrior forums from the late '90s? Guys getting NINTENDO inked to their noodle biceps and swearing they were going to punch out every other neckbeard at NerdCon who didn't share their loyalty to a particular brand name? This entire scenario is starting to have that kind of read to it.

Those villains on the not-us forum? They're just like we are over here, unfortunate people who have wasted too much of their life on one particular text-based video game and have developed some pretty strong opinions on it.

I mean, you're all getting pretty fired up about it, so what do you actually want? A unilateral ban on 'the other guys'? Cull the heretics? Ban 'em if you got 'em? Sounds like a good way to go back to having 40 people on at peak to me.

One guy took his beef with the staff too far and two forums full of people who love and play the same embarrassing niche game want to burn each other down over it.

This is stupid. Just play the fucking game.

[John]

Everyone is being grouped together because one person did a thing and posted it there?

If you look at the posts regarding the Arm clone that was thrown up, you'll see it wasn't the vast majority that spoke out against this. Do we really want to talk about the conduct and specific comments said forum has made against the rest of the playerbase?

The fact is people have voluntarily chosen to participate in an unmoderated discussion of the playerbase and staff of Armageddon, some of whom are quite hostile towards said players and staff. Furthermore there has been a not-insiginificant amount of rules violations from said participants.

I do not see why there is surprise that those participants are being banned. They took said conversations to the unmoderated venue because they knew it was against the rules of the game and would not be tolerated on this forum. Have some of the participants tried to do good? Definitely. Have the majority? Buggered if I know, but a definite sizable portion have been hostile towards players and/or staff of this game and only a minority have spoken out against the rule infractions that the participants of that forum engage in.

The fact people weren't banned the second they posted there is a testament to how much the staff have changed towards tolerance when it comes to players breaking the rules.

[Insigne]

Everyone is being grouped together because one person did a thing and posted it there?

The fact people weren't banned the second they posted there is a testament to how much the staff have changed towards tolerance when it comes to players breaking the rules.

And then there's fact of who was banned and when and why.

I've honestly said all I can. See you guys 'round.

[BadSkeelz]

in vs out crowds

as cats

[evilcabbage]

I don't think feeling like an outsider and being a problem player are synonymous evilcabbage

I've never been considered a problem player to my knowledge over the past several years, but I'm definitely an outsider on the gdb. I feel like an outsider in most communities I make contact with though. That said, I've definitely witnessed eliticism and cliqueish attitudes that, in combination with heavy handed restrictions/repercussions for expressing ones opinion (if it's too adverse or whatever), contribute to the popularity of the shadowboard. It makes me afraid to post thoughts/criticism.

you can always be my friend.

cabbages welcome all to the glorious army that will one day claim control of zalanthas.

[valeria]

I'm personally glad staff haven't weighed in with reasons.  I remember when they used to actually defend their decisions in public posts (anyone remember Nyr?) and then got even more jumped on by people going "nuh uh!" and "why are you airing my dirty laundry!"  If staff decides to explain it, I'd rather have it happen as a cohesive joint statement.  Which I'm kind of expecting from the whole "we're going to handle it staff side and then let you know" post.

Meanwhile, you can be a perfectly reasonable voice to your peers and be practically impossible to deal with from a position of authority.  I personally know people who are like that--great friends but I wouldn't want to be their boss.  As someone's peer, you're going to have different interactions with them than as someone's parent, etc.  You can say someone is an otherwise great player.  But you aren't interacting with them on the same level as staff, so I'm going to go ahead and take your statement with a grain of salt.

The fact that only a few people have been banned when more than that many people have admitted in this thread that they've read things over there tells me that this is not some blanket ban of anyone who has been active on that board ever.  But even if it was, it's a board that has a theme of breaking very clearly stated game rules.  I would be completely unsurprising if these "reasonable" people who were banned have been breaking other game rules and you're simply unaware of it.

[Maziel]

I'm personally glad staff haven't weighed in with reasons.  I remember when they used to actually defend their decisions in public posts (anyone remember Nyr?) and then got even more jumped on by people going "nuh uh!" and "why are you airing my dirty laundry!"  If staff decides to explain it, I'd rather have it happen as a cohesive joint statement.  Which I'm kind of expecting from the whole "we're going to handle it staff side and then let you know" post.

Meanwhile, you can be a perfectly reasonable voice to your peers and be practically impossible to deal with from a position of authority.  I personally know people who are like that--great friends but I wouldn't want to be their boss.  As someone's peer, you're going to have different interactions with them than as someone's parent, etc.  You can say someone is an otherwise great player.  But you aren't interacting with them on the same level as staff, so I'm going to go ahead and take your statement with a grain of salt.

Nyr was greatly criticized for his lack of transparency/communication about things.

And that's what makes Jeshin so special. He doesn't play the game and hasn't for sometime. Whatever got him banned seems to be in the public view.

Maybe I'm wrong about that. If I am, I'd definitely take a response like ' he has been playing and acted as a problem player lately' into consideration.

[Lizzie]

You know what I find ironic:

"Oh stop making a fuss over Barka's actions, it's not like any actual damage was done plus he removed any personal compromising information, he didn't mean to let that slip."

But when J and RR get banned, they don't remind each other:

"Oh stop making a fuss over Jeshin and RedRanger's bannage, it's not like any actual damage was done since both have stated they don't care, and they weren't playing anyway."

[boog]

This is stupid. Just play the fucking game.

[Patuk]

I'm really glad I stayed out of this. (The collective) you're a bunch of angry motherfuckers.

[Malifaxis]

I'm personally glad staff haven't weighed in with reasons.  I remember when they used to actually defend their decisions in public posts (anyone remember Nyr?) and then got even more jumped on by people going "nuh uh!" and "why are you airing my dirty laundry!"  If staff decides to explain it, I'd rather have it happen as a cohesive joint statement.  Which I'm kind of expecting from the whole "we're going to handle it staff side and then let you know" post.

Meanwhile, you can be a perfectly reasonable voice to your peers and be practically impossible to deal with from a position of authority.  I personally know people who are like that--great friends but I wouldn't want to be their boss.  As someone's peer, you're going to have different interactions with them than as someone's parent, etc.  You can say someone is an otherwise great player.  But you aren't interacting with them on the same level as staff, so I'm going to go ahead and take your statement with a grain of salt.

Nyr was greatly criticized for his lack of transparency/communication about things.

And that's what makes Jeshin so special. He doesn't play the game and hasn't for sometime. Whatever got him banned seems to be in the public view.

Maybe I'm wrong about that. If I am, I'd definitely take a response like ' he has been playing and acted as a problem player lately' into consideration.

It is wonderful you are a strong Jeshin fanboy, and Ima let you finish... but you are talking about someone who once played six consecutive characters in Tuluk with the same objective.  This objective was to fuck with, depose, or murder a single PC.  

He isn't this golden god of roleplaying perfection.  He is a slightly twinky individual of sub-par cunning.

And I still stick by my previous statement.  They chose to act with or support a community based around ruining the enjoyment of our community.  Yeah, so its tribal.  The difference is the Arm community has not once acted to harm the Jtarder community.  

Lines were drawn, they crossed them.  Let them hang.

[Lukoyin]

^^ That.

[Is Friday]

I post on the alt gdb.

[Synthesis]

I looked at it for the first time the other day, and I think I sprained my extraocular muscles from all the 

Actually, it reminded me a lot of how I was when I first started playing the game 17 years ago, minus all the conspiracy-theorizing.

[evilcabbage]

i posted there as bilbojagginz.

i was infamously trollish to them.

at one point, i kind of sympathized with one or two of their points.

mostly, i just don't like those people.

so there you have it. i outed myself right here on the gdb. come of it what may, i don't care. i'm not afraid to stand in the light.

[valeria]

Before this descends into flaming (and flaming of anyone is still against the rules, even if you disagree with what they have done in the past or do elsewhere on the Internet), I'm going to echo something posted earlier: before making an angry or hostile post, please consider taking a deep breath, maybe go for a walk or something, and then come back and re-read before you post. Any variety of name-calling, no matter how much you think it's justified, isn't appropriate.

[Is Friday]

i posted there as bilbojagginz.

i was infamously trollish to them.

at one point, i kind of sympathized with one or two of their points.

mostly, i just don't like those people.

so there you have it. i outed myself right here on the gdb. come of it what may, i don't care. i'm not afraid to stand in the light.

I wish your name had been bilboshagginz.

Also, bragging about trolling another community is not a good life choice. Let's not devolve to that.

[evilcabbage]

okay. point taken.

[Maziel]

It is wonderful you are a strong Jeshin fanboy, and Ima let you finish... but you are talking about someone who once played six consecutive characters in Tuluk with the same objective.  This objective was to fuck with, depose, or murder a single PC.  

He isn't this golden god of roleplaying perfection.  He is a slightly twinky individual of sub-par cunning.

And I still stick by my previous statement.  They chose to act with or support a community based around ruining the enjoyment of our community.  Yeah, so its tribal.  The difference is the Arm community has not once acted to harm the Jtarder community.  

Lines were drawn, they crossed them.  Let them hang.

I have no idea about his RP quality. Unless he was doing stuff that was bannable, I don't think it's relevant. And I'm not a fanboy - he just takes an easily discernable role that's also easy to defend. That said, I would say that I like him.

I post on both boards. I like to think that I'm reasonable and don't troll either. Do I support the other board? Idk. I don't post often on either. I post sometimes when I think I can contribute something without being cut to bits - easier over there on that one. Saying I supported the hack (which was actually a former admin giving someone a password) is like saying I support evil cabbage trolling the other board because I post here sometimes. Like what? It isn't fair to view anything except total rejection as support. 99% of the time when I disagree with someone here, I don't say so. I do when I've committed to an argument though.

One thing I don't understand explains all of the things I don't understand. Try understanding, not hating, and you'll see that the people over there are largely nerdy and cool dudes who want to enjoy the game too. Some of them are vocal about their chips on their shoulders like you, but others aren't acting to harm the other community.

[evilcabbage]

the people who are largely over there definitely do not want to enjoy the game like we do. if they did, they would not have any reason to be over there.

the people who largely inhabit those boards do so because A) they want the big scoop on the latest, b) they want to complain in an area where they can say the first thing that comes to mind without having to fear reproach for being unnecessarily mean or slanderous, and c) they hated one particular small group of staffers that i largely had only a few minor interactions with that were overly negative.

i don't know or care to know why you post over there.

creating several pcs with the express purpose of ruining another persons fun is pretty griefy and shitty, and i would not be surprised if there was a rule against it. so. there's that.

[Maziel]

the people who are largely over there definitely do not want to enjoy the game like we do. if they did, they would not have any reason to be over there.

the people who largely inhabit those boards do so because A) they want the big scoop on the latest, b) they want to complain in an area where they can say the first thing that comes to mind without having to fear reproach for being unnecessarily mean or slanderous, and c) they hated one particular small group of staffers that i largely had only a few minor interactions with that were overly negative.

i don't know or care to know why you post over there.

creating several pcs with the express purpose of ruining another persons fun is pretty griefy and shitty, and i would not be surprised if there was a rule against it. so. there's that.

I disagree with you all over. There's no reason to get into it though. I'll stick with 'Jeshin isn't any of that, and him not being any of that isn't magically supportive of anyone that is' 

And I was pretty dumb with at least my first dozen PCs

[Malifaxis]

It is wonderful you are a strong Jeshin fanboy, and Ima let you finish... but you are talking about someone who once played six consecutive characters in Tuluk with the same objective.  This objective was to fuck with, depose, or murder a single PC.  

He isn't this golden god of roleplaying perfection.  He is a slightly twinky individual of sub-par cunning.

And I still stick by my previous statement.  They chose to act with or support a community based around ruining the enjoyment of our community.  Yeah, so its tribal.  The difference is the Arm community has not once acted to harm the Jtarder community.  

Lines were drawn, they crossed them.  Let them hang.

I have no idea about his RP quality. Unless he was doing stuff that was bannable, I don't think it's relevant. And I'm not a fanboy - he just takes an easily discernable rolen that's also easy to defend. That said, I would say that I like him.

I post on both boards. I like to think that I'm reasonable and don't troll either. Do I support the other board? Idk. I don't post often on either. I post sometimes when I think I can contribute something without being cut to bits - easier over there on that one. Saying I supported the hack (which was actually a former admin giving someone a password) is like saying I support evil cabbage trolling the other board because I post here sometimes. Like what? It isn't fair to view anything except total rejection as support. 99% of the time when I disagree with someone here, I don't say so. I do when I've committed to an argument though.

One thing I don't understand explains all of the things I don't understand. Try understanding, not hating, and you'll see that the people over there are largely nerdy and cool dudes who want to enjoy the game too. Some of them have chips on their shoulders like you, but others aren't acting to harm the other community.

Point one:  You were speaking of him as a great benevolent golden pillar of awesome.  His character is questionable at best.  

Point two: By using it, you legitimize it.  You add credence to its existence.  That board provided nothing positive to the game, and actively tried to destroy plotlines and secrets.  If you can't grasp that, I do not know how else to explain it.

Point three:  I do understand.  I also understand that while an infection does serve to strengthen a body's immune system after the fact (ie: it does good) you first have to overcome the damage it wreaks (ie: bad) in order to gain that benefit.  Once we have cut off this putrescent testicle of failed humanity (the alt board) we will all be better able to enjoy this game without all the fucking spoilers and plit ruination that goes on over there.

Chip on my shoulder?  You have no fucking idea.

I am walking away from this for now, because my barrels are spinning up and if I don't take a breath, I am going to get very eloquent.