Discussion: Open Letter to the Playerbase

[Maziel]

There's only about 20-30 "active" users on the GDB. The other forum(s) have similar numbers. We had 250 unique logins last week. The vast majority of players don't care what anyone says on any forum.

I do not see the the relation between point A and B. I read the forums a lot, but obviously am not 'active'.

[BadSkeelz]

It's the active posters who post that set the mood of the forums. It helps to remember that we're a small fraction of the overall community that makes a lot of noise, but are not that influential on the game.

You influence the game by playing it. The forum(s) are just where like-minded people go to howl at each other.

[Delirium]

I have been contributing to this game for a long time, and I post a lot (TOO MUCH?).  I can no longer hide behind the label of new player and I guess I am an old veteran now.  That said I hope I have never made anyone feel unwelcome. If it makes hopeandsorrow/beethoven/anyone else feel better I often feel awkward and insecure too, and am too scared to request my account notes (haven't done it in years) because I'm convinced I'm accumulating bad comments at the rate of fifty per day.  Like valeria I am still waiting for my engraved invitation to the in group.

I apologize if I have ever made anyone feel excluded. <3

Well said. Same here.

[RogueGunslinger]

It's the active posters who post that set the mood of the forums. It helps to remember that we're a small fraction of the overall community that makes a lot of noise, but are not that influential on the game.

You influence the game by playing it. The forum(s) are just where like-minded people go to howl at each other.

I kind of disagree. I feel like a vocal minority has a lot of sway... That's probably just me being selfish. My only "evidence" however would be the trend of staff policies and code implementations generally following the wants of the people of the forums. It's also important to remember that just because you're a small portion of something, doens't mean you aren't representative of the whole.


My post is all a pointless sentiment and sort of off topic though.

[Lizzie]

Beethoven and hopeandsorrow (and anyone else who feels "left out" sometimes) - I'm a prolific poster here on the GDB. Some people think I'm psycho. Some like my ideas. And some don't give a shit one way or another. It's all good, to me. But - truth be told, I sometimes feel left out too. People have had APMs where they've met in real life, partied together, even with staff in attendence. They talk on Teamspeak. They post on Facebook together. They have 50 of their "best Arm pals" on their instant messaging app, and share photos of their kids/dogs/moms.

Here's what I have:
I have 6 people on my AIM buddy list. I talk to one of them pretty regularly, we've known each other for years. I'm not sure about three of the others because I haven't seen them "active" on my buddy list in months (one not for almost a year). The other two I see active maybe once or twice a month, just long enough to say hello and ask me if I'm still playing. I say yes, ask them the same, and then one of us has to log out and that's the end of the conversation.

There's no "group" of us, in my case. I've been playing for over a decade. I post a lot. Players know the name Lizzie, they're familiar with me. They know many of the characters I've played over the years, mostly because I've posted in the clan boards with this account. So if you ever play in that clan and look back on the post history of the clan board you'll see my name pop up eventually.

I think that's what -most- of the playerbase encounters, and why they seem to "know" each other. Because we all have been in many of the same clans and have a shared history - even if our characters didn't actually belong to the same clan at the same time.

The ones who've hung out with each other in real life, yes they do tend to share jokes, and do seem like they're "in" on something I'm not in on. That's okay though. It's my choice not to go to the APMs and gatherings and meetups and join Teamspeak and have 50 of my closest VBFFs on my buddy list. I did get on Teamspeak a few times but my hearing sucks, and none of them want to type anything out, so I can't follow any of the conversations and end up feeling even more left out than if I hadn't joined them in the first place.

[Beethoven]

I never meant to imply that I think there is a Sekret Veterans' Club. I've been having trouble sleeping and I might have expressed myself clumsily; my apologies if anyone who is a regular poster here feels like I attacked them. Nor is this a criticism of staff; staff has always been more than fair to me and I have my share of karma. I do not think that you have to be in any in-group to be treated well by staff.

I guess what I mean to say is that so many people seem to have known each other for years and be on friendly terms. No one knows who I am; I don't think I've ever mentioned my real name here, nor posted my photo. I only talk to a few people OOC, many of them newbies I'm trying to help. Sometimes it seems like the other main posters on the GDB have known each other for years. Perhaps better than words that cast blame around like "in-group" or "clique" would be words like "daunting," as hopeandsorrow said. I don't think anyone is deliberately trying to exclude me or anyone else or try to make me feel unwelcome. And LauraMars and valeria are two of the kindest, most helpful people around, in my experience. I don't really know Delirium but I have always found her posts to be helpful and considerate.

The perception just comes from the fact that when you're no longer a newbie with the privilege of newbie attention, but you're not too well-known, either, it can feel like your opinion gets lost.

For a shy person like me, it can be easy to think that people are ignoring you or treating your opinion like it doesn't carry as much weight as someone more well-connected, even if there's no truth to it. But whether it's justified or not, when people dump memes on you for expressing your opinion, it can feed into that perception.

Honestly, it does not really bother me that much, which is a big reason why I've never brought it up before. I just bring it up now because I don't want hopeandsorrow thinking he's the only one who feels that way. It may be true that it's all an illusion, but it's always good to know that someone else has experienced what you're experiencing, which is why I threw my voice in.

[Maziel]

TMC has a thread on this if anyone would rather take part in an open discussion. http://www.mudconnect.com/SMF/index.php?topic=79731.0

Good stuff here on the GDB though.

[WithSprinkles]

I'm personally constantly READING the forums.

I just don't feel very good about posting in discussions very often because, I'll be honest, the tone feels just a touch like I'd be dipping my toe in a shark tank if I tried to add my opinion to a topic. I only do it if I feel strongly about something or am feeling playful. I don't like conflict... so yeah, I play this game.   But more seriously, rather than post here, I'll sometimes just tack on what I feel to my requests if it's that important a topic (ie: we're asked to vote on something).

So.. that's kinda indicative of my personal feelings on wanting to post here that much. I'm an introvert and it's intimidating.

[John]

my apologies if anyone who is a regular poster here feels like I attacked them.

I don't think anyone took it this way.

[boog]

I never meant to imply that I think there is a Sekret Veterans' Club. I've been having trouble sleeping and I might have expressed myself clumsily; my apologies if anyone who is a regular poster here feels like I attacked them. Nor is this a criticism of staff; staff has always been more than fair to me and I have my share of karma. I do not think that you have to be in any in-group to be treated well by staff.

I guess what I mean to say is that so many people seem to have known each other for years and be on friendly terms. No one knows who I am; I don't think I've ever mentioned my real name here, nor posted my photo. I only talk to a few people OOC, many of them newbies I'm trying to help. Sometimes it seems like the other main posters on the GDB have known each other for years. Perhaps better than words that cast blame around like "in-group" or "clique" would be words like "daunting," as hopeandsorrow said. I don't think anyone is deliberately trying to exclude me or anyone else or try to make me feel unwelcome. And LauraMars and valeria are two of the kindest, most helpful people around, in my experience. I don't really know Delirium but I have always found her posts to be helpful and considerate.

The perception just comes from the fact that when you're no longer a newbie with the privilege of newbie attention, but you're not too well-known, either, it can feel like your opinion gets lost.

For a shy person like me, it can be easy to think that people are ignoring you or treating your opinion like it doesn't carry as much weight as someone more well-connected, even if there's no truth to it. But whether it's justified or not, when people dump memes on you for expressing your opinion, it can feed into that perception.

Honestly, it does not really bother me that much, which is a big reason why I've never brought it up before. I just bring it up now because I don't want hopeandsorrow thinking he's the only one who feels that way. It may be true that it's all an illusion, but it's always good to know that someone else has experienced what you're experiencing, which is why I threw my voice in.

I'll imply that I feel like there is a veteran's clique of sorts, for you me. I have never felt "in" unless I'm playing a sponsored role, and I've been here for 5ish years, and I've played MUDs for 16.

But that's fine. I don't care much. I'm not here to please anyone except myself, and possibly the staff that takes the time out of their day to interact with me via reports.

Keep on being a good player.

[valeria]

Yeah, I don't think anyone took that as a personal attack.  At least no one that has responded.  I think there's more concern about addressing that sense of alienation than anything.

[Vwest]

I don't care much. I'm not here to please anyone except myself ...

^

As long as you're logging in and enjoying yourself, don't spare a care for what anyone on either forum have to say about it.

[Maziel]

Apparently Jeshin has been banned. He's the optional realities guy. His interest has always seemed to be half scientific and half news reporting. Banning him from a board he doesn't post in for taking interest in the how's and why's seems excessive. Maybe I'll get banned for raising awareness, but this is a line that I won't stand idly by for. He's a reasonable, well mannered individual. You should be seeking advice from the guy making it his prerogative to learn these things to help create a richer RPI scene, not banning him.

Here are the relevant TMC posts:

http://www.mudconnect.com/SMF/index.php?topic=79295.msg208592#msg208592

http://www.mudconnect.com/SMF/index.php?topic=79731.msg208606#msg208606

Also please don't ban me  . I enjoy my nobody indie characters who quietly enjoy exploring the game world.

If TMC is misinforming us, please make the missing part of the story known. Otherwise, banning this respected pillar of the RPI community makes Arm staff look bad

[Malken]

If TMC is misinforming us, please make the missing part of the story known. Otherwise, banning this respected pillar of the RPI community makes Arm staff look bad

I'm sort of hoping that the Armageddon staff will just let it die down and refrain from posting on the TMC forum and any other forums, at least under their Staff names. This is getting ridiculous, even for someone like me who loves to read the new hourly weird Arm-related gossip - Man, how many Armageddon related forums are there anyway?? the GDB, jcarter.org, now TMC and whatever Optional Realities is?

[Marauder Moe]

At the risk of sounding too Tuluki, I'm not terribly thrilled seeing links to pages/posts that link to the other board.  I don't think we need to send any more attention that way.  I'm not terribly concerned with what people on the TMC or other MUD forums think of us.  We've never been terribly well regarded anyway.  (And why should we be?  We're competition in a niche sub-genre of a niche genre.)

[Maziel]

At the risk of sounding too Tuluki, I'm not terribly thrilled seeing links to pages/posts that link to the other board.  I don't think we need to send any more attention that way.  I'm not terribly concerned with what people on the TMC or other MUD forums think of us.  We've never been terribly well regarded anyway.  (And why should we be?  We're competition in a niche sub-genre of a niche genre.)

What I've linked to isn't what others think of us. The posters are Arm players, our kin.

[Insigne]

Also please don't ban me 

I'm holding out hope that people don't still have to be concerned about something like this.

Excuse me if I'm stepping out of line. I think Maziel brings up a good point. What is to gain from banning the likes of Jeshin or RedRanger? I don't know. Unless there's something I'm missing, I hope this decision gets reconsidered.

[Malken]

Also please don't ban me  

I'm holding out hope that people don't still have to be concerned about something like this.

Excuse me if I'm stepping out of line. I think Maziel brings up a good point. What is to gain from banning the likes of Jeshin or RedRanger? I don't know. Unless there's something I'm missing, I hope this decision gets reconsidered.

I seriously doubt that Maziel would get banned, but I must admit that I'm also   as to why Jeshin and RedRanger were banned - I'm going to guess that it might have to do with what Armageddon's Staff are about to announce this week regarding the whole affair.

(Both Jeshin and RedRanger seem like pretty nice and decent dudes from what I've read/know of them, so this is why I'm curious about the sudden (if it's sudden) bans) - There's way too many forums talking about this now so I'm probably missing a lot.

[wizturbo]

I'm kind of cool with the purging of accounts, as long as staff revisit anyone who seems fairly moderate and wants to come back after things cool off.

The last many months have been nothing but the current administration doing everything in their power to extend the olive branch...  then this happens.  Ban them all, and sort out the false positives or edge cases later... That's my vote at least.  

[Armaddict]

That's how I feel about it.

This isn't some sudden, unreasonable action.

This is people who were very open in opposition of a long-standing rule, and actually had it tolerated to a much larger degree than -I- ever saw in my time here.  So when a certain line was crossed, the long-standing warning that was given to many, many players of 'You should probably not associate there' is being acted upon.

Doesn't have to be permanent.  But I fail to see this as some overreaction.  This is measured and -normal-, albeit delayed to give the benefit of the doubt (which failed).

[BadSkeelz]

I don't really give a shit about what people on other forums have to say about the game, when I can see there's 58 people on right now and I'm having fun at this moment.

The only people who really know why anyone gets banned is staff.

[wizturbo]

Yup, things are awesome lately. 

Huge amounts of code additions, new subguilds, work is being done on primary guilds, hundreds of new rooms, fucking playable Gith.... 

If people still want to complain, and cannot do so in a constructive and largely positive way, I really don't care if they're here anymore.  I'm a pretty easy going, understanding sort of person...  But I can 100% understand if staff are fed up and just want to give some people the boot.

[Maziel]

I don't really give a shit about what people on other forums have to say about the game, when I can see there's 58 people on right now and I'm having fun at this moment.

The only people who really know why anyone gets banned is staff.

A user at one of the other forums may say something like, "I don't really give a shit about what people say on the GDB. Their opinions don't represent the player-base. I can see there's 58 people on right now and I'm having fun at this moment ignoring their BS.

The only people who really know why anyone gets banned are the players telling us why they got banned."

Either party can open their ears to all they can, or they can not. I will listen to what I can from Arm players and staff wherever they post, here or elsewhere, and I will form opinions with the knowledge I'm able to obtain.

[BadSkeelz]

90% of what you're going to hear outside of the game from other people is bullshit. That's as true here as on any other forum.

If you really want to know what the game is like: Play the game, interact with staff, see how it works out for you.

I have little time for people who are looking for a conflict that doesn't involve virtual characters chopping each other up with virtual bone swords.

[Maziel]

90% of what you're going to hear outside of the game from other people is bullshit. That's as true here as on any other forum.

If you really want to know what the game is like: Play the game, interact with staff, see how it works out for you.

I have little time for people who are looking for a conflict that doesn't involve virtual characters chopping each other up with virtual bone swords.

Judging by your post count, more time than me.

I know what the game is like. I don't have magical knowledge that gives me knowledge of this incident though. Also, I would argue that, if you want to know the true nature of or surrounding anything, learn from as many sources as possible.