Hiring NPC Guards

[Malken]

I think the main problem with that idea is that you can't really set a price on an idea like this because for some indies, 5000 'sids is 2 RL worth of "work" tops and if you hand them NPC guards on top of that then it becomes even easier afterward to pay for these NPCs. The economy is busted (mainly because we have people who can play this game 20 hours a day and mainly because of the aging code itself) so the only "equalizer" is that indies can make a lot of money quickly but they are left rather unprotected doing so in the end but those who join a House makes relatively less amount of money (in theory) but they have the protection (including NPCs) that often come with it.

[Desertman]

Right now you are REQUIRED to wait a minimum of 6 RL months before you can even attempt to get an NPC guard that won't even follow around as a commoner. That is if you hit the ground running from day one of your character being accepted and actually succeed at every level of the system with zero failures.

You are talking about putting in a system that lets commoners hire NPC guards that will actually follow them around (infinitely more useful/powerful) and all they have to do is grind coins into their bank account as fast as possible to get access to them.

This is laughable.

For argument's sake, let's take the cost of 2,000 coins that was proposed. I agree, 2,000 coins a year is a pretty good IC salary for an NPC guard. IC'ly, this makes sense.

If you price them at 2,000 coins a year, I will have an NPC guard following around my merchant PC within five RL days of me being in game and I won't even have to try very hard.

That is of course silly.

If you price them at 5,000 coins a year, I will have my own NPC guard in around two RL weeks of my PC existing. I won't even have to try very hard, especially if I am Merchant Guild.

5,000 coins a year is pretty IC'ly ridiculous though in terms of "employee pay".

In order to keep an NPC guard that follows me out of my hands for 6 RL months (the current mandatory wait at minimum on an even less useful guard) you would have to price them in the tens of thousands of coins an IC year.

This is stupid.

I would rather just see the way NPC guards for the current system are handled changed to make them less useless.

[Dresan]

I would rather just see the way NPC guards for the current system are handled changed to make them less useless.

I can agree to this, perhaps someone who can hire a shopkeeper and hawker should be able to hire a guard for themselves. Maybe templar willing to cut deals with a certain slaver house to provide useful servant/guard(?) for the right amount of 'taxes'

[Armaddict]

I do, in reality, feel like this should be left for PC's.

But only because I've tried at least ten times to have a lone mercenary or small group of mercenaries who offered just this sort of service.  This feels like a job for city-based mercenaries, who don't even leave the city.  I think there should be little rag-tag bands like this scraping by all over the place.

We have, however, a quality-assured mercenary band.  But the idea of monopolizing mercenary work (which they do) is incredibly o.O to me.

In any case.  Keep asking PC's, because I very much doubt this will be implemented until the player-created clan process is actually evaluated to make it more practical.  You might just run into a few that are willing to set up a deal, and then your concern will be whether they can succeed or not.

[Desertman]

I do, in reality, feel like this should be left for PC's.

But only because I've tried at least ten times to have a lone mercenary or small group of mercenaries who offered just this sort of service.  This feels like a job for city-based mercenaries, who don't even leave the city.  I think there should be little rag-tag bands like this scraping by all over the place.

We have, however, a quality-assured mercenary band.  But the idea of monopolizing mercenary work (which they do) is incredibly o.O to me.

In any case.  Keep asking PC's, because I very much doubt this will be implemented until the player-created clan process is actually evaluated to make it more practical.  You might just run into a few that are willing to set up a deal, and then your concern will be whether they can succeed or not.

Pretty much every single PC to PC marketable service or good that would be profitable in any way on a meaningful level is already monopolized by a "Too Big To Fail" entity on some level.

This doesn't mean you can't make your own small little bands that also do those things. What it does mean is you will only be allowed to continue to do them so long as staff decides to allow you to since staff controls the virtual world that already has your trade/service/good monopolized.

[Case]

I like socially powerfully people having the option - GMH, MMH, upperclass Aides. That's about it. It's not about the cost per year. If they're MMH or GMH, assume they're living on the House premises, and the Family demands you justify the use of space to them at 10k per year or whatever. For Templarate Aides or Noble Aides, if there is a significant reason to protect them (so they're not some fighter dude in armor as an Aide), then why not allow it at some cost?

While I like PCs doing a lot of things, playing a bodyguard fucking sucks. Straight up.

[Dresan]

Pretty much every single PC to PC marketable service or good that would be profitable in any way on a meaningful level is already monopolized by a "Too Big To Fail" entity on some level.

This doesn't mean you can't make your own small little bands that also do those things. What it does mean is you will only be allowed to continue to do them so long as staff decides to allow you to since staff controls the virtual world that already has your trade/service/good monopolized.

This is such a damn good point that it deserves its own fucking thread, not really only staff though, Players in clans also have a hand in that,  not sure how staff ever expects anyone to start their own business and become a small house when you can't sell an breastplate or shirt, or anything without pissing someone off.

[Desertman]

I like socially powerfully people having the option - GMH, MMH, upperclass Aides. That's about it. It's not about the cost per year. If they're MMH or GMH, assume they're living on the House premises, and the Family demands you justify the use of space to them at 10k per year or whatever. For Templarate Aides or Noble Aides, if there is a significant reason to protect them (so they're not some fighter dude in armor as an Aide), then why not allow it at some cost?

While I like PCs doing a lot of things, playing a bodyguard fucking sucks. Straight up.

I agree with this with the exception of Templar's and Noble's aides.

Getting that job is really not an accomplishment in any way. You can land that job pretty easily in less than a day played if you put forth just a *tiny amount of effort. (Seen it done dozens of times.)

*It helps if you are leggy, buxom, sultry, or chiseled.

[Lizzie]

In certain situations, Senior Aides, Noble House Advisors, etc. - can be granted temporary use of Clan NPC guards. It's not common though. What it amounts to is a combination of "value of the House's property" and the prestige that goes along with having the guard at all.

Having your own personal guard is a matter of prestige AND value. You could be worth half the Nenuk's estate, but if you're Amos the Rich Nobody, you're not going to get your own personal guard - NPC or PC, without drawing attention from the templars, the nobles, and the GMH employees who have guards. And of the high ranking aides who do not have guards. That isn't the kind of attention that will help your character. It's the kind of attention that will get your NPC guard executed, and you not long after.

[Dresan]

I'm okay with people in clans getting things for free, without work or effort but there shouldn't be anything given to clans members that indies can't earn, work for or acquire.

Again, solo hunters in the wastes isn't the only indie role. Its those indies that play the bandits, villans, the behind the scene manipulators.  They can generate a lot of interesting content for the game by the sheer fact they need to earn everything they have and everything that is given to clanned members for free.


Also if you have sid, you can hire a guard. Its just hiring a PC guard to watch you way someone quietly for 20 minutes is boring. Its shouldn't be made into an city elitist thing.  

[fourTwenty]

Let's look at this from an RP perspective though. We know getting ganked while sitting in your apartment is a possibility. But is this OOC knowledge or IC knowledge? I would think most PCs would feel at least relatively safe in their own apartment. Also, its Zalanthas, rich Indy merchants should probably be constantly in fear of their lives. You got lots of coin and don't have the backing of a GMH. I feel like those dudes should be getting ganked on the reg. I mean, you wouldn't want to drive your brand new caddy through the wrong hood with no connections. Money makes you a target.

In my opinion on this matter, I say hire a PC. You probably shouldn't be idling for long periods of time or spamcrafting anyway. So if you are employing good RP while you go about your business it shouldn't be too boring for whoever is guarding you. Also, this should be fairly easy to work out with the Byn. They can make sure somebody's almost always guarding you, even if its not the same PC all the time.

[Dresan]

Having someone break into your house to rob and kill you is a fear that is quite common in RL and should probably be even more common in the game. You know if people fear merchants locked in their rooms spam-crafting why not make the firepit in the gaj a tiny bit more crafter friendly? Like adding a couple benches around the pit, where crafters can work? That way the only real use for apartments will be mud-sex and quick storage.(even more so than it iis now i guess)

Again its not like someone can't find ways to make it extremely difficult for people to kill them. If anything a NPC guard will only give people a false sense of safety.

[Lizzie]

Dresan - when you choose to play an independent character, or choose to play a character in such a way that no clan would want to hire him - you are rejecting clan life and all the perks that go with it.

You're saying, "I don't want free food, free water, free shelter, a place that's more or less impervious to outsiders getting in so I can craft or spar or whatever I do, and I don't want a clan guard at my beck and call. I want to be....independent of all that."

You can earn your way into a player clan situation, where you'd have a stationary door guard to keep watch over you while you're inside, for hours on end, idling away doing nothing.

If your independent wants what the clans have, he'll have to join a clan. That's one of the benefits that makes joining a clan desireable. If anyone with sids could buy themselves a guard for a year, it'd render that particular clan benefit - no longer a benefit. How about after we give you a guard, we let you have your own personal cook, so that you never have to eat charred food or stock up on travel cakes or worry about rotting steaks in your backpack? Because, y'know, you should be able to earn anything clans get.

No Dresan, you can't earn anything that clans get, as an independent. Clanned people are the haves. You want to be one of the have-nots. You can become a have or you can "want" to be one, and not be one. You could even play an independent that resents the clans for having what they have, and you're not invited to join their party and share in the abundance. That might be a great focus for a dwarf: to become a noble with his own guard, wearing silks, having minions, an estate, and a vote in the Senate.

[Dresan]

Lizzie just remember those clan jobs are supposed to be rare, only for the best of the best. Not everyone is supposed to get one of those jobs, there aren't supposed to be people running around trying to hire.  The majority of people are independants. Some more successful than others. Just remember right now the choice you are talking about is an OOC one. ICly its supposed to be the other way around, but OOC if you are playing an indie, you are have to put some effort to get anywhere.

Right now though, you join effortless and stay in the clan effortless. These clans have already won the game, they can't fail in a way that impacts anyone, you can't fuck up in a way that will impact the organization as a whole. It is because of the OOC effort someone has to doto get to the top as an independant, that I think there should be systems in place to get to the top. Unliked clanned members there is often no second chance, and again the mere fact they need to put in all this effort generates so much content for the game.  This is already outlined in the player clanned system, I just think it could use a few tweaks, like adding a personal guard. Again if you can hire shopkeeper, you should be able to hire your own personal guard.

So until joining a clan actually requires some effort to be part of, yes lizzie I think idependants who actually need to work and RP for ever little thing that they get, should have a way to get pretty high up the food chain.  The world might hate indies because they are potential competition and not one of the people who won armageddon yet like the clans, but OOCly we shouldn't. They are roles where if you don't put any actually time, work and effort, no one will care if you disapear.

[Refugee]

I believe that being an independent in this game is much more rewarding in many ways than being in a clan.  Pretty much in all ways besides plot.

Clans are important to the game and provide the texture and structure that make it what it is.  You give up a lot to be in a clan, really.  Particularly in the areas of finance and freedom to play. 

I think that there doesn't need to be anything else that makes playing an independent preferable to joining a clan.  I think there need to be more things that make playing in a clan a desirable choice.

There's been one time recently where being able to check out an NPC would've been great for me, but it's never really been an issue otherwise.  Still, it would've been cool!

[Desertman]

I think idependants who actually need to work and RP for ever little thing that they get, should have a way to get pretty high up the food chain.  

You can already do this. Not only can you do it, there is an exact list of exactly what you have to do in order to put yourself on par with coded clans if you are an independent.

You are asking for something that is spelled out step by step for you already in every way. There isn't even any guess work.

It is just really fucking hard.

[wizturbo]

I agree with this with the exception of Templar's and Noble's aides.

Getting that job is really not an accomplishment in any way. You can land that job pretty easily in less than a day played if you put forth just a *tiny amount of effort. (Seen it done dozens of times.)

While they may have the same title "aide" there are significantly different levels of seniority.  Some aides are trusted with 50,000 worth of assets without a second thought, have served their House for 10+ years, and are generally considered valued assets.  Aides such as these are worth protecting, and there should be a way to do so if the highborn wants to pay for it.

[Desertman]

I agree with this with the exception of Templar's and Noble's aides.

Getting that job is really not an accomplishment in any way. You can land that job pretty easily in less than a day played if you put forth just a *tiny amount of effort. (Seen it done dozens of times.)

While they may have the same title "aide" there are significantly different levels of seniority.  Some aides are trusted with 50,000 worth of assets without a second thought, have served their House for 10+ years, and are generally considered valued assets.  Aides such as these are worth protecting, and there should be a way to do so if the highborn wants to pay for it.

On the rare occasion one of these types of aides comes around the Templar/Noble can submit a request up the chain in their House to see if the House agrees with them. If they do, they will get a guard, if they don't, then the House (staff) has determined this aide hasn't earned it.

[Dresan]

Some thoughts.

First of all let me just say I see value in the clans OOCly, even in their current form. They are boring to me, because they already won, they exist without much visible consequence making them static. However this sentiment is not limited to clans, sorcerer kings, allanak, most of these places seem a bit static and stagnant because they have become so utterly powerful, Again, this isn't the thigns themselves in how they work in game but its concept, over the years people have built them up to a silly level virtually. With clans though to make matter worse, despite supposedly having insane contracts with every major city...they still find time to shit on the lone indie merchant. I wish they had something better to focus on but slim pickings I guess.

I like to join clans mostly when my time is limited but I'm still looking for some scheduled fun, they provide structure and stability when play times aren't the best. And some people love them. Thats fine.

Lastly my point from before was that anything that a clanned member can earn, a indie should have access too in one way or another, basically I don't agree for guards for elite clan members only. I barely agree to guards for certain people following that system. You shouldn't need to start your own business, just pay your taxes do your thing, and get your guard if you want. It shouldn't be some magickal special thing, it should be common if you want to pay for it. Again, you can find players to do it, just often a boring job to do and I sure as hell wouldn't waste my time with that, but I guess other people have more time to burn than me.

[Riev]

I think in the end, the argument is that this situation just wouldn't work out. Not logistically, not economically, and wouldn't make enough sense in the game world to be worth it.

I LOVE the idea of more intra-city conflict, and have for years advocated for less-stringent crimcode (or at least less NPCs), but until that happens there honestly isn't much reason to hire a guard, NPC or otherwise, except as a status symbol.

If you REALLY need something to spend your coins on, start the games first Minor Merchant House that deals ONLY in high-value gems as a trading commodity. Not for design, most sales end up at Kadius, but trading diamonds for goods and services. Rubies for writs from Templars. etc etc. But being able to "purchase" instant status doesn't fit, even if I'd love to do it on every PC ever.