Hiring NPC Guards

[Dresan]

My idea is not to have a guard that makes you immune to shit, just to give you a chance to run away. Right now, if you are 100 day old merchant, go goes into his apartment, and is followed by a 5 day assassin who has been hired by their mate to kill them. You have no chance. The kill command and some poisons will take care of you easily, despite all your days played. Sure the other aides might cry, and templar might fume after, but you are still dead.

With my idea, if the PC has invested in a guard, then his enemies have to invest in someone to overcome that guard. Maybe with a partner or by having more skill. The guard only gives a merchant a chance, with enough skill and effort he is dead. But if you send someone unskilled enough, then the guard might be able to rescue if it fails to guard. Allowing the PC to run away.

To  be honest this might also a boon to actual assassins, instead of just people with sneak/hide.

[BadSkeelz]

If you're a 100-day merchant who hasn't devoted at least 5 of those days to boxing/sparring you kind of deserve to get whacked.

[Saellyn]

If you're a 100-day merchant who hasn't devoted at least 5 of those days to boxing/sparring you kind of deserve to get whacked.

Not every single person in the entire world knows how to fight or wants to learn.

[BadSkeelz]

Then those PCs should die or find others willing to die for them. Zalanthas has no place for those who want to live in safety without being able to safeguard it for themselves.

I don't disagree with the bodyguard concept in principle. This suggestion, however, seems both redundant and damaging to player interaction.

There are already coded security benefits a rich PC can obtain. Some are NPC or environment driven, others are PC.


What I would like to see is the privilege of living in the really nice (and much more secure) Nenyuk apartment buildings be up for sale, and not just restricted to those of particular clans. A rich enough (and I mean very rich) indie should be able to buy their way in.

[Miradus]

Then those PCs should die or find others willing to die for them. Zalanthas has no place for those who want to live in safety without being able to safeguard it for themselves.

I don't disagree with the bodyguard concept in principle. This suggestion, however, seems both redundant and damaging to player interaction.

There are already coded security benefits a rich PC can obtain. Some are NPC or environment driven, others are PC.


What I would like to see is the privilege of living in the really nice (and much more secure) Nenyuk apartment buildings be up for sale, and not just restricted to those of particular clans. A rich enough (and I mean very rich) indie should be able to buy their way in.

I would also like to be able to travel with a trained gortok as a highly skilled wilderness ranger.

So the NPC concept goes beyond just a guard to stand over you while you whack out widgets. Let's face it ... all we're really doing here is playing with digital dolls. I'd like a few more dolls under my control as a player.

I'm aware this is a code/balance issue ... but just throwing some thoughts out there in case it catches fire in the head of someone who actually has some pull.

[WanderingOoze]

If I had the playtimes I used to, I would totally roll up a
City guard type pc. It would only get borimg if my employer
Was a bore, and for guarding an idling player? Sure, just
Gives me time to solo rp, or way my buddies and compliain
About what a tool my boss is. 

[Synthesis]

> follow soldier

PROBLEM SOLVED

[Chettaman]

The byn hires out NPC guards - an example of what's in my head since I woke up too early, I'm cranky and I'm going back to bed soon:
question: I've never considered guards people before... who the hell feeds them?

Note: elves won't ride mounts and they may steal from you
• The bad elf mercenary - 100 a day he might not finish the job and he'll even leave the city with you. Reaction time slow if he reacts at all since you dying means he gets to loot you.)
• the good elf mercenary - 200 a day but he'll stick with you until you dismiss him and protect you with his life.
• the best elf mercenary - 500 a day  Not only will he stick with you, the only thing that might beat him is a miracle. also his steal is maxed.

• the half giant mercenary - 1000 a day they're your typical half giant.

• the dwarven mercenary - 775 a day typical human mercenary

• the human mercenary - 650 a day  your typical human mercenary.
and of course you can send in a request for some sort of special contract or whatever, but I don't think two thousand a year is enough either. The byn won't ''escort'' you for less than five small. xD
-----------------------
other than byn mercenary:
I dunno... have them walking throughout the city or sitting in the gaj or something.


the numbers are pretty big. You can shave them down or increase them. That's just my idea. Blah.

[Malifaxis]

God no.

Dear God no.

Just no.

10 large a year?  MAYBE.  But 2k?  Fuck that.

[Dresan]

The very best apartments in this game used to be 1000 a month. The VERY BEST salaries in the game from the GHM is 600 a month. My runner went on an escort mission which took almost two IC games, he almost got killed by gith, lost his 450 sid beetle, watched others like him die.

His pay: 50 sid. 50 FUCKING SID.

Lets not forget he had to pay 300 sid for the luxury of that particular job too and the job eventually killed him before he could earn any profit.  

I originally said this could be a service offered by the byn so they shouldn't be making independant levels of money, no one in this game does after joining a clan. The guard would have all the luxuries the byn provides. BUT YES. Fuck YES, 2000 large a year, in allanak, to stay in the safety of the city for what is essentially minumun wage security guard work is a damn good pay in a fucking city where people can't afford water.  My PC in clan haven't ever made that much. I expect that at that pay the guard will not be that amazing, but again, that would be STARTING, I definately see 3,4,5k or more offers for more experienced guards.

I don't know where you people are getting 10k a year from, for this line of work or even 1000 a day. 1000 sid gets you the enitre unit of byn (troopers,giants and all) to risk their lives getting you from one side of the known to the other for as long as it takes to get you to the other side. On a day the staff is feeling fisty with gith mobs, some of them might not come back alive.

I must seriously be playing in the damn wrong clans and playing my indies wrong if the average pay is 1000 a day though. Lets not forget at the 10-20k obsidian coin range you can already buy BadSkeelz in RL, I think an npc guard should  a little cheaper.

[Synthesis]

An NPC guard really isn't going to save you from anything except some newbie scrublord, anyway.

An assassin will get the backstab for free, then the first round of attacks for free.  If you're not a) dead already or b) poisoned with the good stuff, then your attempted murderer was a dingus and you probably could've just fled out.

[Dresan]

That is basically it. I want to be able to pay for protection against the newbie scrub lords.

Someone needed to have paid good sid for that assassin that can land backstab. And the assassin would also need to kill the guard, else the guard should be able to tell the templars, byn, friends  a description of who kill his client. Again depending on the level of that guard, killing the actual guard and/or a escaping would make the job less easy. Not impossible or even that hard, but less easy depending on how much the social PC invested in their protection.

With guilds, sub-guilds getting touched up, maybe main guilds being brought on par with rangers. Lets not forget skill bumps.  Social PC who get things done through RP instead of skills really need some more high end services. Protection from low level scrubs is a fine investment if you ask me even if that basically increases those chances of running out from probably to possibly.

[Chettaman]

ugh. Debating prices isn't my thing. I really have trouble giving value to anything.
But you're a salarri for the prestige. You almost somebody now! Not only that, safe-ish place to sleep, Semi-comfortable beddings, like-minded people you can kind of depend on, food, water whenever you want, and now you want more money!? Hh... We'll kick you out and find some other person willing to get payed next to nothing.
Could you survive independently off of 50 sid a month without a place to sleep, without the knowledge or ability to get your own food or water? Hahaha. ... hahahaha. No. No you couldn't. So you can either go back to surviving however you were surviving or get out of my family's face.

xD
My favorite part about this game, I think are the ironic rewards people get sometimes while others are getting armor that shines or swords that cleave through time and space. People like Dresan and me get 50 coins for outstanding service. rofl


----
anyway. How about:
Bad elf mercenary: 25 coins a day - descent at fighting - will probably steal
good elf mercenary: 50 coins a day - really good fighter - will probably steal
human: 95 coins a day - really good fighter
dwarf: 65 coins a day - may sometimes wander because of some focus you don't know about - really good fighter
half-giant: 150 coins a day. - really good fighter

There are eleven days in a week so... if you get a half giant guard it'll be a max of 1300 a week and that's maxed.

[Dresan]

Those are the wages people are making an entire IC week in my opinion. Its what my indie PCs sometimes make on average especially when starting out AND they need to leave the city to make that. The guards are basically working inside the safety of the city.  In this case since they are part of a clan, they get food and water covered.  Those that want to make more, often have to head outside, where all manner of beast, witch or worse can get to them. Therefore pretty good pay for a weeks work. That can pay an apartment for them and all sorts of things.

I think giants should be rare and limited to templars and nobles.

Going by that however, lets say that human costs 100 sid exactly, 1400 every two weeks or an IC month for a good human fighter is reasonable. 4.2 K a year is worth that. However if he isn't good and just decent then I can see the pay being lower, and such. I think people are focusing way too much on the cost. I said 2k could be starting, but I'd be okay with it being double that too. Its supposed to be a money sink that should be valuable to have and gives social PC a slightly better chance to survive attacks from anyone who isn't skilled with backstab. With more people having access to hide/sneak, I'm okay with that.  

[Kankfly]

There's this type of service available already, just not with NPC. Check your local bars for rumors, and ask around IG.

As for why 2k a year is way too cheap, you're basically asking someone to stand around and do nothing for IC days, weeks, missing training, as well as a bunch of other contract works that will bring in extra income to a company that basically does a lot of stuff for money - Yes, I'm talking about NPC Bynners too. If you can cover all that potentially lost income/training, go ahead, but 2k a year doesn't.

Since Byn contract prices are settled with the current sergeants in charge, that means there are no set prices when it comes to jobs. Some sergeants might price you higher, some might price you lower. NPC guards don't really allow that kind of flexibility, which is why I think it's better if there's no NPC Byn guards for hire.

[Akariel]

How would a system like this increase player on player interaction and RP?

[Chettaman]

Yeah. Good question, Akariel!
No one actually hires PC body guards. So why all of a sudden do you want NPC body guards?

I withdraw all of my suggestions!

[WithSprinkles]

I've seen PCs hire other PCs as body guards PLENTY of times. No, they don't stand over you and watch you creepily while you sleep/Way/eat breakfast, but they were there when that other PC was out and about and it worked very well for the squishy PC in question. It's about going out and hiring someone, being in an organization with someone with a vested interest in keeping you alive or making friends with someone who wants you not dead.

NPC bodyguards, in my opinion, are just fine where they are. With nobles, templars, high ranking GMH family members having to work to earn one and maybe even people who get to the upper tier of a PC made MMH. I mean, it's a status symbol more than anything and you still kinda need a living, breathing PERSON to save your butt if something really goes screwy.

TOTAL Noob perspective here, never having dealt with an NPC bodyguard before, but even if you managed to flee into the sunset after an attack... what about the NPC bodyguard you left behind? They just die in the street? Or the attacker leaves them alone? I may have it wrong, but nobles and templars seem to usually be pretty aware of where they leave those guys. Wouldn't having one of those need a little responsibility player-wise to make sure they came back too somehow? And if this system were implemented, if you (potentially) lost a lot of guards, they shouldn't want to work with you anymore. Or jack the prices way, way up on you. Or maybe step aside rather than take that hit.

It's not like you can take these NPCs on a ride with you, can you? So I think this is for city bound characters. So.. I get that people may want the bodyguard option, but if you're out there promoting RP and moving and shaking it all over town, finding a breathing PC to watch your back shouldn't be difficult if you really want to. This shouldn't be available for random unaffiliated people who manage to gather huge amounts of sid.

[Asanadas]

How would a system like this increase player on player interaction and RP?

Force projection. Giving guild merchants teeth so that they can be more flamboyant. Status symbol. False senses of protection.

All off the top of my head.

Like Badskeelz said, players can theoretically do this already for other players; they're just not flexible in time constraints, and it's soul-crushingly boring.

[Dresan]

How would a system like this increase player on player interaction and RP?

Nobles and Templars get those guards for a reason. How does them having guards help player interaction and RP? For staff to argue that this system isn't needed because players can do the job, they would need to remove these things from PC noble and templars and allow open slavery again, instead of the very limited fashion we see today. Which I think  is the way it is for VERY good reason. There is a reason no one works as a stable boy. The guarding I've seen is for very short period of times. I have had PC has hired PC guards for events or other things, that will not change but this is not always possible for the daily boring shit my PC, like sit around and way people for 20 or 30 minutes.

As I stated before, players who need this system are social PCs who are probably getting mixed up in plots. You have to be DOING something to be willing to spend this amount of sid in a system like this after all.  And you have to be doing more then just buying from shops to generate this amount of coins.  If all you are doing is spam-crafting then you probably aren't going to be on anyone's hit list. Furthermore, you probably have twinked your skills to the point you can defend yourself against most people anyways.

This system would be specifically to allow non-combat social indie roles to have a bit more survivability in a world where everyone and their mothers can get sneak/hide.

That way there is more incentive to go out and socialize, step on toes, get involved with plots, and NOT be the easiest target in the room regardless of how rich you are just because you rent an apartment and the hired PC 'guard'  doesn't feel like logging in for the day just to watch you waying other people. With clans being what they are, a portion of the fun generated in this game comes from indies. They are the bandits, the villians, the people that try to accomplish something, the people that create something new and fresh, these people are the ones that give clans something to do that doesn't feel like a randomly generated fed-ex quest. The best way to survive in this game will ALWAYS be to just join an untouchable clan and just sit your ass somewhere in the compound, I don't think staff ever need to worry about making it any safer than that. This doesn't help interaction, so give those who do go out and interact a few more tools so that it isn't a suicide venture. In turn we might be able to remove half-giant PC solders from streets allowing for more crime as well for those that don't afford such great protection.  

Sorry, but I know where you were going with this,but  again people don't often get hired to do guard work for any long period of time. Its a boring role, you aren't losing much interaction there by adding NPC guards. The only you'll see is people having one guard for quiet times in the apartment and two or more guards(one NPC/ others PC) when they are meeting someone in potentially dangerous...or just to show off which for me personally is the real reason to hire PC guards in public settings anyways.  The game needs more incentives to go out and do things, to go out to get those 40k bounties, incentives for interaction and socializing. This generates plots, stories, schemes, betrays and everything in between.  Unfortunately, it still feels like earning coins is a waste of time after a certain point.  

[Armaddict]

How would a system like this increase player on player interaction and RP?

I'm not actually for this idea, but I would like to note that staff seems to use this as a selective means of shutting down ideas.  I can spew this right back at you for every idea from closing down clans to making a massive push for tablelands diversification, or showing the skills list, or anything.

This idea is about being able to purchase realistic and reliable services from the game, where depending on it from PC's is not reliable.  That's it.  So I find this kind of questioning...questionable.

Edit:  And do not derail with this, if you want to argue it out with me about what increases roleplay and what doesn't, go ahead and PM me or move this elsewhere.  I was pointing out that this question only comes out to shoot things down, but does not seem to dictate what we put in.

[Desertman]

A system is already in place that will allow you to hire multiple NPC guards if you put in the work and prove you actually need them/deserve them.

[roobee]

Would this take IC or OOC efforts to do. If OOC, could you elaborate on how to do this?

[Lizzie]

Would this take IC or OOC efforts to do. If OOC, could you elaborate on how to do this?

http://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Player-Created%20Clans

[Asanadas]

Player created clans aren't offering the same idea as this suggestion, guys. Come on.

I mean, perhaps one of the benefits of having a player clan could marginally substitute for what's being suggested, but it's in no way equal.