The Future of Quit

[Ender]

The biggest thing I don't understand is why a ranger, a ZERO karma class gets unlimited access to wilderness quit, but a non-ranger mul, or a nilazi, or a psionicist has to find a quit room.

[Delirium]

Quit rooms are actually relatively rare and a pain in the ass to get to, especially after several were removed from the game in the last few years.

Knowing where quit rooms are and having ranger quit are not the same thing at all. Especially if your playtimes are limited or sporadic.

[Ender]

The biggest thing I don't understand is why a ranger, a ZERO karma class gets unlimited access to wilderness quit, but a non-ranger mul, or a nilazi, or a psionicist has to find a quit room.

If you have that kind of karma and you can't find a quit room, then you have bigger problems.

That's absolutely not the point.  The ability to wilderness quit is a really nice benefit to have as a ranger as it allows for a lot of exploration without having to worry about OOC time constraints.  A ranger can enter an area they aren't that familiar with, and feel confident if their child starts crying, or their house catches on fire, they can log off without worry, and without having to worry about if they had used quit ooc before.

It literally changes my personal play style and how willing I am to dedicate time to the game.

[Ender]

I think wilderness quit should be changed to:

"We're all adults here, so let us just log out of the game when and where we want to without restraint, and if I'm a dickhead about it, an administrator will remove this ability for me specifically."

but that's kinda a long name for an ability.

[roughneck]

I think wilderness quit should be changed to:

"We're all adults here, so let us just log out of the game when and where we want to without restraint, and if I'm a dickhead about it, an administrator will remove this ability for me specifically."

but that's kinda a long name for an ability.

So, it makes it slightly more difficult for non-ranger classes to roam around the most remote regions of the world? Kind of makes sense.

[Delirium]

I think wilderness quit should be changed to:

"We're all adults here, so let us just log out of the game when and where we want to without restraint, and if I'm a dickhead about it, an administrator will remove this ability for me specifically."

but that's kinda a long name for an ability.

So, it makes it slightly more difficult for non-ranger classes to roam around the most remote regions of the world? Kind of makes sense.

Whether or not you can quit out has no bearing on the difficulty of surviving in a remote area. Food, water, and angry beasties are much more immediate concerns. If you can handle those concerns, you should be able to survive out there. Quitting should be an entirely OOC mechanism and have no bearing on the IC situation. Because it IS an entirely OOC thing.

Our characters never quit, they go on living in the world. WE, as players, need to quit, for reasons varied and numerous.

[LauraMars]

I'm also in favor of quitting anywhere, anytime.

It would make living in the wilderness as a non-ranger feel more fun besides. That "the whole world is your campground" feeling.

[hopeandsorrow]

I support Quit for all.

[whitt]

I'm also in favor of quitting anywhere, anytime.

I think this is a nightmare waiting to happen.  From Player Complaint and Staff workload standpoint.  Maybe I'm a cynic, but...

Player A is stalking Player B waiting for the right moment to strike, when:

• Player B finally enters that dark alley.  Player A wishes up about to kill Player A and.... quit.  Poof.  Gone.  Better than magick.  Player B didn't even know Player A was there.
• Player B catches sight of Player A and looks at Player A, realizes that Player A is that vicious murderer and... quit.  Poof.  Gone.  Player B panics because they don't want to lose their long lived character.
• Player A cuts down Player B and runs to hide (skill) in a dead-end alley in a dead-end quarter waiting for the wanted flag to run it's course.  Player A watches along the alley and as soon as they see another player?     Quit. Poof. Gone.  Come back on when it's less likely there's someone there and wait out the flag.  If someone does show?  Quit.

Raider fires an arrow signaling you're about to be raided?  Quit.

It's too open for abuse.

I think wilderness quit should be changed to:

"We're all adults here, so let us just log out of the game when and where we want to without restraint, and if I'm a dickhead about it, an administrator will remove this ability for me specifically."

Quit OOC -

If you're in such a rough spot with your playtimes and choice of play location that you need to quit ooc so regularly that you can't tag a safe quit room in between?  Is that really so frequent a thing?

Better to modify Quit OOC so you can use it more than 1x in a row then to give every class Ranger quit.  It's my understanding staff gets notified of the use of Quit OOC (hence the reason required).  This is much easier to monitor for abuse than having to wait for the inevitable Player Complaints, dig through logs, burn time and energy contacting the "offending player", etc...

[Molten Heart]

If there were something like a 60 second delay on the ability to quit in the wilderness (or outside of a safe room), this would prevent a lot of abuse and complaints. A delay kind of like crafting.


Nevermind, this would make rangers less awesome and we can't have that.

[LauraMars]

I'm also in favor of quitting anywhere, anytime.

I think this is a nightmare waiting to happen.  From Player Complaint and Staff workload standpoint.  Maybe I'm a cynic, but...

Player A is stalking Player B waiting for the right moment to strike, when:

• Player B finally enters that dark alley.  Player A wishes up about to kill Player A and.... quit.  Poof.  Gone.  Better than magick.  Player B didn't even know Player A was there.
• Player B catches sight of Player A and looks at Player A, realizes that Player A is that vicious murderer and... quit.  Poof.  Gone.  Player B panics because they don't want to lose their long lived character.
• Player A cuts down Player B and runs to hide (skill) in a dead-end alley in a dead-end quarter waiting for the wanted flag to run it's course.  Player A watches along the alley and as soon as they see another player?     Quit. Poof. Gone.  Come back on when it's less likely there's someone there and wait out the flag.  If someone does show?  Quit.

Raider fires an arrow signaling you're about to be raided?  Quit.

It's too open for abuse.

Can't you already do all this stuff with Quit OOC though?  How often does it really happen?

[roughneck]

I have total faith in playerbase to (for the most part) avoid abusing a quit-for-all change to the game.

I think ranger-only wilderness quit is better because it keeps everyone else closer to quit rooms, generally speaking. All, but the most experienced and seasoned travelers, should be staying close civilization where they can buy food and water and find shelter.

There are quit rooms at city gates and enough other places that if you're a non-ranger who's worried about emergency log-outs, all you have to do is stay close to these places and manage your PC's or your mount's stamina to be able to make it back quickly.

A lack of wilderness quit isn't your issue, failing to manage your stamina or failing to remain close to quit rooms is your issue.

One of the great parts of Armageddon is that there are real limitations on different classes that bring the world alive, this is one of them.

[Molten Heart]

Excellent point, no need to fix a non-existent problem.

[TheWanderer]

Agreed. Is it convenient? Sure. Is it a huge issue? No.

I'm totally against changes, anyway. Good day.

edit: I'd prefer people not just casually log out near limited resources every time, either. I'll take the rangers doing it, but -every- class? Let's slow our roll.

[hopeandsorrow]

I'm also in favor of quitting anywhere, anytime.

I think this is a nightmare waiting to happen.  From Player Complaint and Staff workload standpoint.  Maybe I'm a cynic, but...

Player A is stalking Player B waiting for the right moment to strike, when:

• Player B finally enters that dark alley.  Player A wishes up about to kill Player A and.... quit.  Poof.  Gone.  Better than magick.  Player B didn't even know Player A was there.
• Player B catches sight of Player A and looks at Player A, realizes that Player A is that vicious murderer and... quit.  Poof.  Gone.  Player B panics because they don't want to lose their long lived character.
• Player A cuts down Player B and runs to hide (skill) in a dead-end alley in a dead-end quarter waiting for the wanted flag to run it's course.  Player A watches along the alley and as soon as they see another player?     Quit. Poof. Gone.  Come back on when it's less likely there's someone there and wait out the flag.  If someone does show?  Quit.

Raider fires an arrow signaling you're about to be raided?  Quit.

It's too open for abuse.

Can't you already do all this stuff with Quit OOC though?  How often does it really happen?

Doesn't Quit OOC get logged with staff though?

I'm sure a mild delay on quit and removing Ranger's ability to Insta-quit would be a super fair solution.

OOC quit would only be used if you have to go THAT SECOND.


I'm often have to quit/gone a lot because of my home life, but even I can toss it up to a 60 second delay most cases.  If it's one of those times I do have to go RIGHT NOW, I'd just Quit OOC.

I think ranger-only wilderness quit is better because it keeps everyone else closer to quit rooms, generally speaking. All, but the most experienced and seasoned travelers, should be staying close civilization where they can buy food and water and find shelter.

There are quit rooms at city gates and enough other places that if you're a non-ranger who's worried about emergency log-outs, all you have to do is stay close to these places and manage your PC's or your mount's stamina to be able to make it back quickly.

A lack of wilderness quit isn't your issue, failing to manage your stamina or failing to remain close to quit rooms is your issue.

One of the great parts of Armageddon is that there are real limitations on different classes that bring the world alive, this is one of them.

The above quote I disagree with greatly, and it shows a lack of empathy towards players who don't have the time and life conveniences to play Arm hours straight with out a break and with out interruption.  

Insisting anyone who is not a Ranger must rely on the one time OOC quit or never go explore or do anything cool because they have to remain tethered to the city is utterly archaic.

[Lizzie]

Actually I'd like to see desert elves and humans in *coded* non-city-based tribes have more access to quit. How much more access? Not sure. Maybe more quitOOC options. Or maybe "if you're more than 20 rooms from an actual quit-safe room AND you are not in a city/outpost, you can quit here without using quitOOC.

Note, I haven't played a desert elf in a couple of years, and it's been even longer since I've played a human *coded* tribal. So I have no real horse in this race. I also find it inconvenient to have to find a quit-safe room with all of my non-ranger characters, but I plan for it, and make sure I'm not doing anything that involves me being that far away from a quit-safe room that I can't just quit there. Once in awhile I have to use quitOOC - I think I've used it maybe 6 times since it was implemented. Not a big deal.

[LauraMars]

I'm sure a mild delay on quit and removing Ranger's ability to Insta-quit would be a super fair solution.

OOC quit would only be used if you have to go THAT SECOND.


I'm often have to quit/gone a lot because of my home life, but even I can toss it up to a 60 second delay most cases.  If it's one of those times I do have to go RIGHT NOW, I'd just Quit OOC.

I agree, that seems pretty fair.  Would cut down on situations of abuse as well.

[Desertman]

I feel Quit OOC makes this a non-issue in the extremely vast majority of situations.

[Delirium]

Quit OOC just proves that we should be able to quit anywhere without having to use quit OOC.

I really shouldn't have to explain myself like I'm some wayward kid every time I need to log out. We're all (mostly) adults here.

[wizturbo]

Just add more quit rooms.  Shouldn't be so rare, they're an OOC construct.

[Desertman]

I think it is a good system that balances responsibility to the roleplay-first environment of the game with considerations for the OOC lives of the players.

If someone is concerned they feel they are being oppressed and disrespected by a lack of wilderness quit on a OOC level.....I don't know what to say that to that.

I've never personally felt disrespected myself by this feature of the game (or lack thereof) so I don't guess I can offer any insight there.

[hopeandsorrow]

Since I got a dog in this hunt.

The only issue with Quit OOC is having to find a quit room after the fact once you log in.

Which yea, usually isn't an issue but I've had times, really unlucky times that I thought the world was settled and that life and fortune would smile upon me once I logged back in only to hear a piercing cry, or the cat puking on the couch, or something equally as terrible.

I had either spam rush in the most hilarious unrealistic of fashions to the closet possible quit room (Hoping the entire time a storm doesn't decide to fuck me in that moment) or just type in gone afk, so anyone who finds my Krath struck PC standing next to his mount staring blankly at the Crimson Sun.

It kind of sucks, I already shove most my Arming in three hours of me staying up way later then I should as a grown adult with an important Job.  I believe I stated in the ranger thread, Ranger Quit is 50% of the reason I play rangers, the literal convenience and safety of having that on demand, no matter what happens makes playing a lot easier and lot less riskier.

Granted I've never as been so unlucky to be killed while a None Ranger while gone, but often time I usually keep those PC's tethered to the city much to the detriment of their lives and RP opportunities.

To Echo Delirium, we're all adults here.


I'm not terribly upset if things stay the same or whatever, I've adapted and worked around it before and I always seem to manage.  But it's unfortunate that I don't honestly consider most other classes as equally playable for that one little OOC construct, that I'm more likely to pass on this clan or this RPT or this Contract because the nature of quit and if something happens beyond my control OOCly.

Ultimately RL will always come first.  I don't care what's going on in game.  I'd like it if it didn't feel like a risk of a PC because I might have go afk for an unknown amount of time and I don't still have that quit OOC loaded in the chamber.  Those are my personal limitations and issues, I Don't honestly expect the game change specifically for me but I like that there's a conversation going.


Also quit rooms sometimes lead to some cheesiness because of their stagnant nature.  Most people know where most of them are.  Considering the known virtually should have thousands of nooks, crannies, and holes.  Yet really there's enough that some one determined enough could check only them in a relatively short amount of time.

It should be a bit harder to hunt rogues of all times down in a world of hundreds of thousands with vast and unrelenting pock marked landscape of ruins and natural caves.

I think it is a good system that balances responsibility to the roleplay-first environment of the game with considerations for the OOC lives of the players.

If someone is concerned they feel they are being oppressed and disrespected by a lack of wilderness quit on a OOC level.....I don't know what to say that to that.

I've never personally felt disrespected myself by this feature of the game (or lack thereof) so I don't guess I can offer any insight there.

Your Opinion is Oppressive Man! Check your Quit Privilege!

Nah, I just have a often interrupted life, there's a lot of online games I can't play in earnest because I have young children.  I Wouldn't say oppressive, but I wish sometimes I had more sympathy cause all I Wanna do is play games while the little ones sleep, sometimes they don't sleep.  OR my cat's an asshole, or my wife suddenly might need help or I'm on call that weekend for work.

Merely trying to make the case that quit for all would be nice, for someone like me. 

[Desertman]

Eh, I guess if everyone got quit everywhere it wouldn't hurt me any.

I just don't find it to be an issue on any level personally and never have.

If it is a issue for enough people I'm not opposed I guess.

[Malken]

Quit rooms are so 1998.

[CodeMaster]

It's true that quitting is an OOC act, but lots of OOC acts have IC analogs to help smooth over the bumps rather than just retcon that these OOC things happened.

OOCly we say linkdead, ICly we say "krath struck".  OOCly we quit, ICly we go to the dormitory or whatever.  Unless you're a ranger.

Maybe it would be a nice compromise for everyone if there were a non-extended subguild that got wilderness quit as its big selling point.