The Future of Quit

[Fujikoma]

There have been times where people wanted me dead, and players passed on it because I was AFK, the best grief requires rubbing their nose in it, otherwise, it's just wasted. NPCs don't have the same ideas, however.

[hopeandsorrow]

There have been times where people wanted me dead, and players passed on it because I was AFK, the best grief requires rubbing their nose in it, otherwise, it's just wasted. NPCs don't have the same ideas, however.

Good guy... Griefer?

[Fujikoma]

There have been times where people wanted me dead, and players passed on it because I was AFK, the best grief requires rubbing their nose in it, otherwise, it's just wasted. NPCs don't have the same ideas, however.

Good guy... Griefer?

Uh, I routinely test as "killer" on the Bartle test, but I like being social, so I try to keep my recreational activities low-profile... but I'm familiar with the motive, when you go out of your way to harm another player, you only cheat yourself if you kill them AFK. It would take a huge jackass to consider an AFK kill a success.

[Armaddict]

There's a balance to be met, from me.  This topic was discussed a lot back in the day, because the game was less stable for some.  Staff position at -that- time (I don't know if it changed) was for a grace period to be used to allow time for reboots, updates, things of that nature.  But someone deciding to use disconnection rather than a quit room, or someone's power going out for hours at a time, should not stall the events.

If it's not important to my character, if it's a passing trivial thing...someone being linkdead is a pass on violence/aggression.
If it's important to my character, but I've just stumbled on them by chance and -because- they were linkdead...I'll give them a pass.  Depending on things, I may beep, or initiate contact and see if they react, and if there is no reaction, I take it as a time to pass on things.
If it's important to my character, and I've been shadowing, pursuing, or hunting them, but then they -go- linkdead...I'll give a grace period of 15 to 20 minutes, then continue in the trend of behavior that was set.

[RogueGunslinger]

I have a lowered opinion on anyone who thinks the ability to quite anywhere anytime is a bad thing. It's an incredibly stupid argument to back.

I've had multiple issues with quit-ooc. Usually right after I sparred with someone and need to log out. Oh, combat timer, better quit-ooc... Oh wait, I already did that last time. Better just leave my pc in game and hope they don't dehydrate to death by the time I get back....

You should be able to quit anywhere, anytime.

The problem with "quit anywhere, anytime" is that it's too open to abuse. I know this because the current quit code is abused plenty.

Edit: Got my timers confused...

How is it more open to abuse than quit-ooc? It would just mean it could be abused with a bit higher frequency from the people who are already breaking the rules. It's not going to give them more incentive to do so if they already are. These people should be punished, not the rest of the player-base.

I've honestly never seen someone run to a quit-room or quit-ooc to escape other people. But you were in the AOD for a long time, you likely have more experience with that.

I have gone linkdead for days at a time, unintentionally, and come back to 'reconnected', and been neither hungry or thirsty.

This is not reliable, especially if you have to go afk because you couldn't quit out and don't actually go linkdead.

I'm not missing the point. I know exactly why quit-ooc can't be used more than once. And it's for a stupid reason. The fact that it's already there, and already open to the abuse you all are worrying about makes me think you're jumping at shadows and being incredibly pessimistic based on a couple bad apples you've seen.

As for suggestions to "make sure to use  a quit room after using quit-ooc" Yeah, that easy enough to say, but I'm not going to remember every time I've used quit-ooc and I shouldn't' have to. I shouldn't be saddled with inconveniences just because the people who are breaking the games rules aren't punished harshly enough.

[Fujikoma]

I will agree that going linkdead in an effort to avoid a confrontation is poor form, this is what you worked for, here, in your face, and, you're going to try to use code to avoid it? No, play that shit out.

[Alesan]

If you got killed while AFK, I think I would consider that poor form.

Damn those inconsiderate NPCs and mobs. I'm filing a player complaint!

[Armaddict]

Er, what you linked there, RGS, was to Asanadas saying that linkdead people died to hunger and thirst, not telling you that you should just go linkdead.

With you, I think it's more about time management than anything else.  I've only used quit ooc once or twice in the past...well.  Since it was made.  I never imagined that it was supposed to be used as often as you seem to be using it, which makes it almost a casual thing to me which is weird.

[Fujikoma]

If you got killed while AFK, I think I would consider that poor form.

Damn those inconsiderate NPCs and mobs. I'm filing a player complaint!

I'm filing a character complaint against your mom, I totally didn't consent OOC!

Also, hunger and thirst code have been adjusted when you're linkdead.

[hopeandsorrow]

Er, what you linked there, RGS, was to Asanadas saying that linkdead people died to hunger and thirst, not telling you that you should just go linkdead.

With you, I think it's more about time management than anything else.  I've only used quit ooc once or twice in the past...well.  Since it was made.  I never imagined that it was supposed to be used as often as you seem to be using it, which makes it almost a casual thing to me which is weird.

In your experience did you go Link dead outside the gates?  I'm familiar with Asandas's situation because we share the mutual friend it happen too.  It was crappy situation, it was over a year ago so maybe something changed.

[Fujikoma]

I only know it's been adjusted since I frequently pass out drunk on my keyboard... if it functioned like it usually did and I went linkdead, that would be one dead-ass PC. Also, don't go linkdead outside the gates. it's especially embarrassing when a HG has to carry you in, and you're a city elf, and it's, one of those things that, never happened.

[RogueGunslinger]

With you, I think it's more about time management than anything else.  I've only used quit ooc once or twice in the past...well.  Since it was made.  I never imagined that it was supposed to be used as often as you seem to be using it, which makes it almost a casual thing to me which is weird.

Yeah I use it often(1-2 times a week?), and very much so OOCly. I figured that's what it's there for.

Er, what you linked there, RGS, was to Asanadas saying that linkdead people died to hunger and thirst, not telling you that you should just go linkdead.

With you, I think it's more about time management than anything else.  I've only used quit ooc once or twice in the past...well.  Since it was made.  I never imagined that it was supposed to be used as often as you seem to be using it, which makes it almost a casual thing to me which is weird.

In your experience did you go Link dead outside the gates?  I'm familiar with Asandas's situation because we share the mutual friend it happen too.  It was crappy situation, it was over a year ago so maybe something changed.

Er, what you linked there, RGS, was to Asanadas saying that linkdead people died to hunger and thirst, not telling you that you should just go linkdead.

Yeah I didn't think anyone was saying I should go linkdead.  I'm just saying it's inconsistent. If the server doesn't know you're disconnected(because of technical reasons) then you can still go LD and die of hunger/thirst code. I literally watched this happen a month ago or so. It's one of the many situations I think deserves a resurrection.

[Fujikoma]

Either they fixed that, RGS, or I am connecting to the wrong server.

[Armaddict]

[hunger/thirst while linkdead derail]

I have gone linkdead outside the gates.  Usually not for such long periods of time, those usually happen because I forget I'm logged into the game, and I'm hyperaware and into the game outside the gates with exceptions of potty breaks.  It would have been back during my lone d-elf era, which happened often enough, but again, not for spans of longer than a few hours.

In the case of outside the gates, I cannot give a definitive answer due to periods of linkdeath outside the gates being much more urgent to me, to the point I will go to someone else's house for their internet to log off.  This is because with creature movement, there is a definitive risk of baddies getting you outside the gates before hunger and thirst.

However.  While the rate is increased outside the gates, I see no reason why linkdeath inside the gates would suspend it (as in the case where I'm linkdead for 24 hours straight), and linkdeath outside the gates would not.  I think your mutual friend was killed by an npc or possibly pc while linkdead out there.

[Fujikoma]

Ok, I think I see the problem, play more city elves.

[RogueGunslinger]

Sometimes (due to technical reasons) The game does not know you're link-dead, even though you are. It has nothing to do with being inside or outside the gates.

[Asanadas]

Sometimes (due to technical reasons) The game does not know you're link-dead, even though you are. It has nothing to do with being inside or outside the gates.

This is exactly the issue. This is a terminal sensing problem. Yes, I know that food and water values "freeze" when you disconnect from the terminal. However, there are bad severs and other potential issues that can possibly leave Ginka without "knowing" someone has disconnected. There's no actionable ping test automated to resolve this, or else [situation] wouldn't have happened.

Yes, I know that anecdotally you've gone linkdead out in the desert and come back fine -- food and water, at least. However, this is not the situation for at least one person who lost their character. This was a real travesty, in my opinion -- that character was great, and he put a lot of love into it only to be ruined by a failure in the way our medium is played: fancy telnet connections.

So! All that said, I think it's a shame, and there should be A: quit everywhere, and B: a 10-15 minute activity ping from the terminal, which would disconnect someone inactive if there's no response. I think this would build towards a better RPI experience, and abusers could have quit anywhere removed of course.

[ABoredLion]

I have a log, as well as requests backing up death to a very strong character due to household loss of internet for 2 hours. I died at the 1 hour 47 minute mark or so, if I remember what staff said. I could get the exact request and such, and give it, but I'm not sure if staff would view kindly on it. As long as I remove the name, and give the basic interaction as well as information, it should be fine though, if anyone wants it. The request says specifically, 'You lost link at X, and approximately X amount of time passed, and you died of dehydration.'

[RogueGunslinger]

It's incredibly stupid if staff don't give out a rez for shit like that.

[Case]

Honestly, it should keep a timer since last command, and if none is entered in say 15 mins, it should linkdead you. That's the failsafe. If this is implemented currently, it's not working perfectly for some reason.

Otherwise it should be detectable iff it fails a send to a connection that has been torn down or otherwise lost that is able to return an error. Lag will muck it up, a firewall being overzealous might return nothing, or I dunno, DNS breaks or something weird. This should be covered by the failsafe.

In the case of the game lagging and halting its timers, we have a problem. The connections will time out but not correctly be torn down, the lag is of N length and players may have to go, and upon resumption it'll still take the failsafe time to linkdie people. So maybe a check to system time each series of game loops that can detect this problem.

[ABoredLion]

I died two steps from a water source, with a backpack full of fresh skins. I'd filled them all up, was coming out to put them all away, forgot to take a drink from the source. I finished putting them all away, saw the reminder 'you're thirsty' again, and went to get the skin out of my pack, and then went linkdead. End of the story. His, anyhow.

[Asanadas]

It's incredibly stupid if staff don't give out a rez for shit like that.

They definitely don't.   for how harsh Zalanthas is supposed to be, this sort of OOC helplessness is unnecessary and detrimental to the game.

I understand where the reasoning is coming from: "If we do this now, we're going back on our word when we've denied this to everyone in the past." In my opinion, it's never too late to start doing the right thing. Those who have suffered from the wrong decisions in the past will see it as more of a good-will gesture towards improvement, instead of a paranoid staff-pet-fest some would fear them to react with. After all, everyone's here to play and get some enjoyment.

Yes, the setting is supposed to be harsh; but I believe this harshness should be kept entirely within IC means, and that no bitterness or otherwise hostility should be put forward OOCly. However, there are some few outspoken individuals that would have this harshness pervade not only the OOC game mechanics but also the entire community... this I disagree with vehemently.

The nature of the quit room bottleneck, and its archaic limitations on players in this thread preventing them from playing potential concepts, is a mild example of that OOC harshness. I think it'd be best if it was done away with, and some sort of check was made to prevent players from losing their valued characters through (OOC!) situations entirely beyond their control.

[Fujikoma]

Ok, this has absolutely never happened to ME, but that doesn't mean it never happens. If it did I would be pissed as shit... two hours, reallly?

[wizturbo]

A tale of sorrow....

How long ago was this?  It seems like something that would've happened a long time ago, but not in recent years.

[ABoredLion]

This was within the last year, I'll say. Which is why I'm not so sure about throwing out the full requests and such. But I could doctor out names/etc.