Transsexuals on Zalanthas

[Beethoven]

There is also magickal healing to be considered, and while that is generally frowned upon, perhaps in your tribe it isn't, or maybe in certain circumstances it's at least tolerated. I could see that being used in a rtualistic gender reassignment surgery sort of thing.

[Desertman]

There is also magickal healing to be considered, and while that is generally frowned upon, perhaps in your tribe it isn't, or maybe in certain circumstances it's at least tolerated. I could see that being used in a rtualistic gender reassignment surgery sort of thing.

Why not just a spell that changes your gender? Why are we trying to make our magick match real life surgery expectations/procedures?

I've seen those in many games, especially Dungeons and Dragons. I've cursed people with items as a DM with those exact spells on them actually for plots.

For all I know, that spell actually already exists in Armageddon. *shrug*

[whitt]

Neh, nevermind.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

As Laura says, there is no sexism. Sexism is the inequality of the sexes. There is none of that whatsoever.

That's chauvanism. 

Sexism is believing that men should carry all the heavy things and fight all the wars while women should be barefoot, pregnant, and in the kitchen.

Uh, alright. Also none of that. I'm pretty sure chauvinism derives from sexism, but whatever. Point remains. A female can do whatever a male can do and visa versa, but males are still males and females are still females, and trying to be the other wouldn't be something that would make you weaker or stronger, but certainly it's different, and different is different.

[Desertman]

As Laura says, there is no sexism. Sexism is the inequality of the sexes. There is none of that whatsoever.

That's chauvanism. 

Sexism is believing that men should carry all the heavy things and fight all the wars while women should be barefoot, pregnant, and in the kitchen.

Uh, alright. Also none of that. I'm pretty sure chauvinism derives from sexism, but whatever. Point remains. A female can do whatever a male can do and visa versa, but males are still males and females are still females, and trying to be the other wouldn't be something that would make you weaker or stronger, but certainly it's different, and different is different.

Different is generally not considered a good thing which I think is the issue that would come up with this.

I think we are safer to say it's not any more different than anything else, so that people interpreting how to "treat different" isn't even on the board.

[Delirium]

I think everyone's made their points on both sides of this particular debate. Reiterating them isn't going to help.

[Beethoven]

Um, I'm just saying that it could help heal the wound and make it look more natural. It would still obviously be much worse and much more of a hack-job than real-life gender reassignment surgery. I'm just using the phrase so that we can compare it to something we understand, but I'd hope people playing something like that out wouldn't just try to copy something that exists in modernity as best they can. I've seen far too much of that IG.

[Desertman]

Um, I'm just saying that it could help heal the wound and make it look more natural. It would still obviously be much worse and much more of a hack-job than real-life gender reassignment surgery. I'm just using the phrase so that we can compare it to something we understand, but I'd hope people playing something like that out wouldn't just try to copy something that exists in modernity as best they can. I've seen far too much of that IG.

I can see a lot of fun being had with a "gender change" spell that wore off after a few IC days.  Just saying. Would be pretty funny.


This also reminds me of the time I had a certain <redacted> from the north make Gage Gritshaw sit and think about wanting a vagina. They basically tried to make him turn into a transsexual. It was very funny. (Thanks Ourla.)

[valeria]

Fun fact: you don't need to change your genitals to be trans.

[Desertman]

Fun fact: you don't need to change your genitals to be trans.

Truth. In doing a little research for this thread, I learned what the terms "Post-Op" and "Pre-Op" meant. You guys teach me everything in life worth knowing. 

[Beethoven]

No, you certainly don't need to, valeria but I was just addressing the OP, because the OP did ask about some potential methods of physical sex reassignment.

[Nyr]

There is also magickal healing to be considered, and while that is generally frowned upon, perhaps in your tribe it isn't, or maybe in certain circumstances it's at least tolerated. I could see that being used in a rtualistic gender reassignment surgery sort of thing.

I doubt the capability (magickal or otherwise) exists to do this.

Magickal lore: 

Can Magick on Zalanthas restore missing limbs and other crippling wounds?

While magick on Zalanthas is powerful and can perform miraculous feats of healing, it only works on fresh wounds and injuries. Once a wound has healed, whether it is a cut on the arm or the stump of a severed leg, healing magic is ineffective.

As far as surgery, you're talking something that wasn't done in the real world until the 1930s, and that had complications early on that led to death in some cases.

While there may be other things that magick and game-level technology might provide for in the case of the exceptionally well-connected, wealthy, or those with connections/wealth AND a sense of expedience over disgust regarding magick being used on them...this is probably beyond both magickal and mundane "capabilities".

[valeria]

No, you certainly don't need to, valeria but I was just addressing the OP, because the OP did ask about some potential methods of physical sex reassignment.

I realize that, I just wanted to nip a common misconception in the bud. 

[Beethoven]

I don't really want to get into the nitty-gritty of what I was talking about but I am going to agree to disagree that some kind of rudimentary hackjob MTF thing could be done. Would be done in that kind of ancient setting, realistically, well, I don't know, but if because of OOC reasons staff wants "transwoman" to be a workable role, then I was just proposing a way I think it could be done.  FTM, no. MTF, I think so. Now, I'm not saying it would be pretty, but I think someone could do it. I don't know if they would have to be particularly wealthy, either. They would just have to have access to magick, and they would have to be desperate enough to want to use that magick (and tolerate a lot of pain in the meantime!) And some transpeople really, really want to get rid of their gender dysphoria, at all costs.

Now, I'm not sure about how very functional the parts would be, but they might see whatever can be accomplished as preferable to the alternative.

Maybe it's silly to disagree with you of all people, Nyr, but here I am.

[Beethoven]

Basically, what I am saying is that they would just be wounding themselves and then sort of half-healing it, but I don't want to be too graphic here. It would not be functional at all, and would only serve to make them feel more female. A lot of people would definitely not want that, but some might.

EDIT: But you know what is a lot MORE viable? Eunuchs. Join me, gelded brothers!

[ABoredLion]

I'm expecting now to see some tribal person who always wanted to be the other gender holding a blade to a vivaduan, cutting off someone's bits (or their own), and telling that Vivaduan they'd better attach it to them quick like or they're getting the spear. Thanks for that. Arm, you change me in so many ways.

[Beethoven]

I'm being really grotesque, aren't I.

[Desertman]

I'm expecting now to see some tribal person who always wanted to be the other gender holding a blade to a vivaduan, cutting off someone's bits (or their own), and telling that Vivaduan they'd better attach it to them quick like or they're getting the spear. Thanks for that. Arm, you change me in so many ways.

10/10, would kudos if happened.

[valeria]

New character concept.

[Clearsighted]

In ancient India there were whole religious sects and castes that more or less revolved around transgenderism as a practice. So anything I suppose, is possible in Zalanthas, which has none of the Western Judeo-Christianity baggage on the subject.

[EvilRoeSlade]

Fun fact: you don't need to change your genitals to be trans.

Heh, yep. But if I was going to clear up every misconception in this thread, I wouldn't have time to play.

[musashi]

So... to the OP, Transsexuals on Zalanthas.  I can completely buy that there would be men that wish they could bear children and women that wish they could impregnate other women.  These are the only differences between the genders that matter.  Not sure how that could play out, beyond trying to find a way to fill that role with the equipment they have.  

Yeah, this is about the only avenue in which I can envision transgender expression manifesting.

Anything else like a man wanting to wear make up and put a dress on to "be more like a female" would feel like RL stuff being shoe horned into the game.

[bardlyone]

I feel like with the lack of socialized and societal division between male and female, you'd have a mostly agender society. Which would fit well with polyamory and nonnuclear families and having crowded hovels of starving people. Girls can kick as much ass as boys, and boys can be pretty kept toys just as easily as the other way around. Since there's no gender roles, one can then infer that you can like any number of things, and that doesn't make you wanting to be a man, or a woman, for that matter, outside the genitals/impregnating, maybe wishing to look more like a guy/girl physically (ie breasts or lack thereof/what-have-you). But with a lack of gender-roles, it'd be really difficult to be transgender. After all, sex and gender are not the same, and while there are definitely different -sexes- in Zalanthas, the lack of gender roles makes it hard for me to picture -genders- that are distinct outside maybe odd tribal cultures, and the former lirathan/jihaen templarate orders.

[Jingo]

I think you're less likely to see transgender PC's in Zalanthas because a transgender player would probably just go ahead and play their preferred gender. That said, I cringe at the thought of anyone trying to emulate the struggles of a transgender PC for the same reason I cringe at the thought of someone trying emulate a psychiatric disorder or mental disability. (I AM NOT SAYING TRANSGENDERISM IS EITHER OF THESE THINGS, THEY ARE NOT) I can't trust players to play it without it becoming some sort of caricature.

[Kismetic]

I feel like with the lack of socialized and societal division between male and female, you'd have a mostly agender society. Which would fit well with polyamory and nonnuclear families and having crowded hovels of starving people. Girls can kick as much ass as boys, and boys can be pretty kept toys just as easily as the other way around. Since there's no gender roles, one can then infer that you can like any number of things, and that doesn't make you wanting to be a man, or a woman, for that matter, outside the genitals/impregnating, maybe wishing to look more like a guy/girl physically (ie breasts or lack thereof/what-have-you). But with a lack of gender-roles, it'd be really difficult to be transgender. After all, sex and gender are not the same, and while there are definitely different -sexes- in Zalanthas, the lack of gender roles makes it hard for me to picture -genders- that are distinct outside maybe odd tribal cultures, and the former lirathan/jihaen templarate orders.

Smart post.  I think at face value, I agree with all of it.