Pottery in the southlands

[Norcal]

I have been thinking about this. Maybe it should go in another thread, but staff can split it if they think it needs to be moved.

In order to make pottery you need a fuel source.  In the southlands, wood is rare, so there would be other fuel sources, most likely dung.

Today, animal dung is the most commonly used fuel source for pottery in the highlands of Peru and Bolivia. However it has fallen out of favor elsewhere. Any type of communal kiln in the south, would require a lot of dung, especially if high temperature firing was used.  Considering that much of the cooking in the south would also probably be done over dung, that would make it a valuable commodity. A lot more so that it is now. In fact the demand in Allanak alone, would make animal dung very rare, and expensive. Human waste would be used as well, making that Byn latrine...a real sid mine.  That is another topic however.

So for me a big question about pottery in the south, is the fuel source for making it. If dung is expensive, and wood as well, then pottery would be quite valuable. Don't forget that wood is even more rare in the south now, due to the war.

What about alternatives?  Soapstone for example? Perhaps the a source of large blocks of soapstone needs to appear in the south? Perhaps master potter should also be able to work this material? Perhaps Rukkians should have a spell to make clay? Perhaps a Krathi is required to fire a kiln?

And there is regional design and appearance of pottery. The south has the salt flats.  Salt firing and soda firing can both give pottery a very distinctive finish, and make it look cool. Perhaps a source of porcelain clay as well?

Given the possible value of the wares,  a  group could get very rich from pottery, and certain types of clay would be a nice resource to control.

That is just my two sids worth however. Cheers.

[The Silence of the Erdlus]

I need someone to teach me to use the game's kilns because honestly I could not get that shit started for the life of me and there's no kiln helpfile.

[bcw81]

I need someone to teach me to use the game's kilns because honestly I could not get that shit started for the life of me and there's no kiln helpfile.

RENT <Your name here>
You are now admitted to the kilns.

Craft clay into ____

[solera]

As far as I know, bone can be used for high temperature fires if you can pump air in.

[The Silence of the Erdlus]

This was an unlit clan kiln that I couldn't figure out.

[Eurynomos]

I don't think dung is a rare commodity. Everyone makes it, from the highest Noble, to the lowest Rinther, and all the mounts in-between. For the sake of discussion, I think we can assume dung is 'everywhere' in Allanak.

[Barzalene]

Whoops! Wrong thread!

[Norcal]

I don't think dung is a rare commodity. Everyone makes it, from the highest Noble, to the lowest Rinther, and all the mounts in-between. For the sake of discussion, I think we can assume dung is 'everywhere' in Allanak.

I said animal dung would be rare, as it would be preferred to human dung I imagine.  And if everyone needs it for cooking fires, it would get used pretty quick. The point being that it is the primary fuel source of Allanak. That makes it valuable.

[Eurynomos]

Value comes from supply vs demand. There is likely an equal supply of dung as there is to the demand for it. If you don't have it -- Make it! (Or scavenge it). Things like metal are incredibly valuable, because the supply of it is incredibly low, and the demand for it, incredibly high.

[Norcal]

Naaahhhh, I think demand may out pace the poo. At least for the animal dung.  But you are the boss, so you win. Anyway, what about the other questions in my post?

[jcortrig]

From Wikipedia:

The law of conservation of mass, or principle of mass conservation, states that for any system closed to all transfers of matter and energy (both of which have mass), the mass of the system must remain constant over time, as system mass cannot change quantity if it is not added or removed. Hence, the quantity of mass is "conserved" over time. The law implies that mass can neither be created nor destroyed, although it may be rearranged in space, or the entities associated with it may be changed in form, as for example when light or physical work is transformed into particles that contribute the same mass to the system as the light or work had contributed. The law implies (requires) that during any chemical reaction, nuclear reaction, or radioactive decay in an isolated system, the total mass of the reactants or starting materials must be equal to the mass of the products.

The concept of mass conservation is widely used in many fields such as chemistry, mechanics, and fluid dynamics. Historically, mass conservation was discovered in chemical reactions by Antoine Lavoisier in the late 18th century, and was of crucial importance in the progress from alchemy to the modern natural science of chemistry.

The closely related concept of matter conservation was found to hold good in chemistry to such high approximation that it failed only for the high energies treated by the later refinements of relativity theory, but otherwise remains useful and sufficiently accurate for most chemical calculations, even in modern practice.

In special relativity, needed for accuracy when large energy transfers between systems is involved, the difference between thermodynamically closed and isolated systems becomes important, since conservation of mass is strictly and perfectly upheld only for so-called isolated systems, i.e. those completely isolated from all exchanges with the environment. In this circumstance, the mass-energy equivalence theorem states that mass conservation is equivalent to total energy conservation, which is the first law of thermodynamics. By contrast, for a thermodynamically closed system (i.e., one which is closed to exchanges of matter, but open to exchanges of non-material energy, such as heat and work, with the surroundings) mass is (usually) only approximately conserved. The input or output of non-material energy must change the mass of the system in relativity theory, although the change is usually small, since relatively large amounts of such energy (by comparison with ordinary experience) carry only a small amount of mass (again by ordinary standards of measurement).

In special relativity, mass is not converted to energy, since mass and energy cannot be destroyed, and energy in all of its forms always retains its equivalent amount of mass throughout any transformation to a different type of energy within a system (or translocation into or out of a system). Certain types of matter (a different concept) may be created or destroyed, but in all of these processes, the energy and mass associated with such matter remains unchanged in quantity (although type of energy associated with the matter may change form).

In general relativity, mass (and energy) conservation in expanding volumes of space is a complex concept, subject to different definitions, and neither mass nor energy is as strictly and simply conserved as is the case in special relativity and in Minkowski space. For a discussion, see mass in general relativity.

So we're all clear now, right?  I mean seriously - it all boils down to:  *handwaving*  There's plenty of poop to make stuff, worry about other things. 

[Norcal]

Did you bother to read the post just above yours?  I asked what about the other questions in my post. And *handwaving* you went back to the poo. Please make a positive contribution to the discussion about pottery and it's alternatives if you have one.

[In Dreams]

I don't think dung is a rare commodity. Everyone makes it, from the highest Noble, to the lowest Rinther, and all the mounts in-between. For the sake of discussion, I think we can assume dung is 'everywhere' in Allanak.

This makes me feel like PCs and NPCs should create dung like animals do.

You notice: the cute, tressy-haired noble's aid squeezes out a fist-sized ball of dung.

[Talia]

This makes me feel like PCs and NPCs should create dung like animals do.

Please wish up to have this bit of code attached to your PC by an Admin+. Warning: It's random and will probably lead to extremely awkward results while tavern-sitting or during mudsex.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Hahaha. Hahahahaha.

Oh, God, help me. Belly hurts. Hunnph.

[Taven]

This makes me feel like PCs and NPCs should create dung like animals do.

Please wish up to have this bit of code attached to your PC by an Admin+. Warning: It's random and will probably lead to extremely awkward results while tavern-sitting or during mudsex.

I'd be so tempted to make a PC just for this. BEST SPEC APP EVER.

Amosa the very serious, etiquette-oriented, dainty Atrium student. She just has one little problem...


Best. Thing. Ever!!

[Talia]

I'd be so tempted to make a PC just for this. BEST SPEC APP EVER.

I'd have to test the code to make sure it didn't bork anything, but since it's on all the mounts and works fine...I don't see why it wouldn't work on a PC. I'd probably approve this.

[Jihelu]

Would we get a shit command or would it give us prompts every now and then to let us know we gotta go.

[TheWanderer]

I'M GLAD I'M NOT THE ONLY ONE THAT TAKES HIS CHARACTER'S BOWEL MOVEMENTS SERIOUSLY

[Talia]

Would we get a shit command or would it give us prompts every now and then to let us know we gotta go.

It would just happen without warning. You'd suddenly shit on yourself. No command necessary, no control either!

[Norcal]

Em  Mutters about a really crappy derail. 
I'm out of this thread.  Cheers.

[Taijan]

[remove ST cap]
I'm not sure that dung would be that rare of a commodity. Between chalton, inix, beetles, and other herbivorous mounts, there should be plenty to go around. Humanoid feces might not be as well-suited to the task due to the relatively low amount of vegetable matter in their dung, at least with most PCs.  Perhaps they've got enough fiber in their diet to let it burn nicely - dwarves, muls, and especially half-giants would have a reasonable output to keep supply high. And then you've got your tamed mekillots - being mostly carnivorous, it might not burn so well, but maybe enough to do the job. You just wouldn't want to cook with it.

Given how massive inix and oxen in the north are, they must crap tons - more than enough for dung to be a viable export without reducing their own supply. They've still got wood to use, though some might prefer the flavor that dung imparts.  But that too is its own topic.

There are also scraggly plants and leftover material from crops that could perhaps be wrapped together and dried as a fuel source, but that's just speculation on my part. Another source would be wild mekillots. The piles that'd be found in the Salt Flats would be suitably massive, and the heat and salt would make short work of drying them out.  This is just pottery we're talking about, so the awful smell wouldn't be that huge of a deal.

So there we've got supply covered. Demand might not be as high as you'd think, since there are only a handful of places in the city with access to kilns. That'd limit the number of people who could be trying to make pottery at any given time, and the people running the kiln could conceivably keep them lit at all times as long as there was a steady supply of fuel.

[Desertman]

I want to cook everything I cook now over a mek shit fire.

"Get your smoked meat!" Smoked for flavor! Tastes like authentic shit!".

[BadSkeelz]

Given the amount of dung within the City itself, I wonder if people would really want to bother going after mekillot dung on the salt flats.

[Taijan]

Well there's prestige, the fact that it's dried for you, and the knowledge that you're not rolling your neighbor's poo between your fingers.

First things first, we're gonna need dung deposits and dunghackers.