Pottery in the southlands

[RogueGunslinger]

Given the amount of dung within the City itself, I wonder if people would really want to bother going after mekillot dung on the salt flats.

There are Mek's in the city too, so even less reason for them leaving the gates for it.

[Kalai]

Human dung and bird droppings are tolerably usable; pure carnivore droppings are generally not.

Dung isn't an optimal fuel source - less efficient vs wood, more and worse smoke - and reaches the necessary temperatures better in bonfire-fired pottery vs kiln-fired. You'll need more of it to match the performance of charcoal, thus providing a bit of a boost on the demand side, even if we say kilns can use dung fine.  

Mixing crop leavings with dung is pretty handy, and indeed in some places is how dung cakes for fuel and so on are crafted. Could especially supplement such as human dung that has less fibrous plant matter vs large herbivores.

The demand for dung is less likely to be 'do we have enough dung?' and more the labor put into collecting, mixing (sometimes), drying, shaping, and moving the stuff. This can still be significant without implying dung itself is particularly low in supply.

[solera]

Fat and tallow. Rather than feed it to the great unwashed, unenlightened poor.

[Norcal]

OK, since this has changed from a thread about pottery to a thread about poo;

Here  are the numbers.

Supply side in the real world:
On average, people (humans) put out about 450 g of poo per 24h.
75% of that is water. So dried weight is 113.25 g.
If you have a household of 7 people then you produce 792.75 g of dry poo per day.

Demand side:
In an -efficient- dung burning stove, it takes 1,800 g of dried dung to boil 5 liters of water. That is just to boil it, not to cook anything in it beyond boiling. I reckon about 20 mins, although the article does not say how long. So figure cooking whatever for 20 mins will take 1,800 g.

That is over twice as much as your household is putting out and only for one meal. And that assumes everyone is using an efficient stove.  Dung is only 50% to 75% as efficient as wood. But without a lot of wood, you will need to use dung. That is just for cooking, not to mention any industrial uses.

The human supply is not enough, and not very palatable. That means that animal dung will be in demand.  

People assume that there are lots of beetles and other domestic animals in Allanak.  I think only folks who are better off can afford them.  So there are not really oodles of poo lying about everywhere.  Allanak is not Amsterdam or Paris. That stuff is valuable.

[Reiloth]

Allanak is not Amsterdam or Paris because it doesn't have beetles the size of several humans, dinosaurs the size of half-giants, and a plethora of other goodies that produce (probably) plenty of poop.

I fail to see what the issue is? It's a game, there's plenty of things that don't make sense IC (Meat never rots, for instance), but we roll with it for the sake of playability.

I feel like this thread has devolved to arguing about poop, just to argue.

[Kalai]

Wait, the last time I tried to gather dung in Allanak (many years ago) the easy sources for it had in fact been exhausted. What is this strange new world where dung isn't a common but valuable resource in-game?

[Norcal]

Points of this thread were:

1. To suggest that POTTERY would be more valuable in Allanak than in the north, because it would be more expensive to make. Might there be other alternatives to it?

2. To suggest that the resources around Alanak could be used to make some very cool and unique pottery designs.

[Taijan]

Now that I'm done talking about dung...

Clay can also be left to bake in the sun or cooked in an oven/pit, but won't reach the same high temperatures and won't be heated as evenly. Sun-baked clay would likely be too porous to store liquids in, and oven-baked might not be much better. Even for some of the available kilns it could be iffy. So at the low end, I'd argue that pottery should remain cheap. But for higher end wares achieved at a greater cost of materials and with more specialized equipment?  Yeah, these things should be more expensive I think.

Salt fired clay looks pretty cool - but also difficult to make without a quality kiln. It also uses a technique that most likely doesn't exist or has been lost to time.  It might still be possible though - pursuing the development of the technique and the ensuing product line could be a fun goal for some to pursue.  The same goes for any craft really.

I'm not so sure about letting a Master Potter craft with soapstone since it's a kind of stone (albeit one that's very easy to carve), but those with the right skills and appropriate materials could make alternatives.

[BadSkeelz]

To Wikipedia!

Salt glaze pottery is stoneware with a glaze of glossy, translucent and slightly orange-peel-like texture which was formed by throwing common salt into the kiln during the higher temperature part of the firing process.

Hmmm. Maybe a high-quality kiln fired on salt-crusted mekillot dung would produce results suggestive of salt glazed pottery. A potter takes interest, starts experimenting trying to replicate it, eventually figures out it's dung from the salt fields, figures out it's the salt, not the dung...

[Norcal]

So you don't think Master potter should get stoneworking then? I don't know what they get currently.

[Beethoven]

Master Potter, our new celebrity, doesn't appear to get master stoneworking or any kind of stoneworking skill, according to the helpfile.

[valeria]

New character concept:

the exceptionally hirsute man
? / Master Potter

[Talia]

New character concept:

the exceptionally hirsute man
? / Master Potter

elkrosian

[bcw81]

New character concept:

the exceptionally hirsute man
? / Master Potter

elkrosian

em rubs ~clay.vase all over his furry chest, sparking up.

[WithSprinkles]

I couldn't help but think of this:

[valeria]

I think Talia gets me.  amirite

[Talia]

I think Talia gets me.  amirite

It's like no one but you, me, and Beethoven ever read the whole Harry Potter series three times.

So you don't think Master potter should get stoneworking then? I don't know what they get currently.

Master Potters can expertly create works from clay, as well as skillfully tint and color the clay with which they work. Living on the fruits of their labors, they are skilled at driving shrewd bargains. They are also much in demand with merchant houses or individual customers, as their prowess with clay allows them to create unique designs.

They're master clayworkers. They make pottery.

[Desertman]

I have been under the impression that the clay pits in Allanak would be inside the city walls, much the same way as they were/are in Tuluk.

The idea that they would be clay deposits out in the wilds never even occurred to me until now. I just sort of assumed they would be inside, because, "Always been that way.".

I really like the idea of clay being something not readily available inside of the city walls with no risk.

[seidhr]

I think we have to suspend disbelief for a lot of things in the game, and choose our battles for which things to implement realistically or not.  Clay prices based on the rarity of poop and/or other fuel to run kilns is pretty far down the list for me, personally.   

[Revenant]

Put dung in a crust, bake a pie, sell to the wealthy... Or just smash it in someone's face.

[Synthesis]

Put dung in a crust, bake a pie, sell to the wealthy... Or just smash it in someone's face.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zb1qsVqjwg