While reading a bit about Sorcerer change...

[Asmoth]

I started thinking, that would be fucking PERFECT if elementalists were a subguild.

Think about it, you could actually have a "sorta-sorc" type player who actually could do things when he or she didn't have mana.

Warrior/Water Elementalist = Yeah, that battle wound, I healed it.

Ranger/Electric Elementalist = Yeah who needs a mount, I'm a real ranger for the most part and not a desert elf, suck it.

ETC ETC.

It would add a whole different level to mundanes and make playing a rogue so much harder to sniff out through mundane means.

Of course you would have to change something, maybe not give X number of spells at Chargen, maybe only one, and have them branch differently?

I dunno, I think it would be awesome because realistically, there is nothing that says my Ranger who hasn't manifested and spent X years playing out in the sandbox would instantly lose every skill he's ever learned due to a sudden magick orgasm of power.

[BadSkeelz]

We discussed this somewhere in the Sorcerer change thread. Based on what's been pulled off with Elementalist/Extended Subguilds, it would be stupidly overpowered.

[Asmoth]

We discussed this somewhere in the Sorcerer change thread. Based on what's been pulled off with Elementalist/Extended Subguilds, it would be stupidly overpowered.

Possibly, but unless I'm misunderstanding how ext subguilds work, they are their own Karma requirement.

So say I wanna play Water Elementalist/WHATEVER THING (I honestly never even looked at the ext subguilds because of my understanding/misunderstanding of them).

I gotta have 5 karma, 2 for original guild, 3 for extra shit.

So if you have 1 Karma, you can't even do it in the normal spec app structure.

[valeria]

I agree that it would be extremely OP.  No thank you.  If you want something like that, you should put in a spec app so that staff can individually balance it.

[Jihelu]

So you have to ask staff if you can be a decent hunter while having the birth right of magic? "I'd like to have been born magickal but still have the common sense to be a hunter".
Sound meh. I kind of like the idea.

[BadSkeelz]

We discussed this somewhere in the Sorcerer change thread. Based on what's been pulled off with Elementalist/Extended Subguilds, it would be stupidly overpowered.

Possibly, but unless I'm misunderstanding how ext subguilds work, they are their own Karma requirement.

So say I wanna play Water Elementalist/WHATEVER THING (I honestly never even looked at the ext subguilds because of my understanding/misunderstanding of them).

I gotta have 5 karma, 2 for original guild, 3 for extra shit.

So if you have 1 Karma, you can't even do it in the normal spec app structure.

Extended Subguilds are kind of like main guilds, just pared down a bit. You're proposing combining the full power of an Elementalist guild with the full skills of a normal guild. This would be even more overpowered than current magicker+Extended subguild examples.

[Asmoth]

I'm just saying, I know that everytime I tried to play a rogue gicker (not many times actually) I was always sniffed out by lack of ability in the area I was going for.  Guard, couldn't fight worth a shit.  Ranger, couldn't skin worth a shit. etc.

Would make it easier for people to be secret abominations.

[BadSkeelz]

App an extended subguild. It'll help a little bit. Be OP, but it'll help with what you're trying to do.

Fuck magick otherwise.

[Asmoth]

App an extended subguild. It'll help a little bit. Be OP, but it'll help with what you're trying to do.

Fuck magick otherwise.

Keep in mind, I'm not one of those guys who just plays to chop mutha fuckas with bone swords.

My only complaint about magickers is the glass cannon way they are once the mana is gone.

So maybe one of those extended subguilds would make you more survivable.  I'll have to see what some good ones would be with water and ruks.

[Clearsighted]

You don't need any subguild to be more survivable than any warrior or ranger, with a viv or ruk. Even taking into account mana issues. (And I don't consider mana an 'issue', so much as a valiant stopgap against complete round the clock gicker domination).

Extended Subguilds and gickers are fine, so long as no special karma app is ever allowed to exceed 8 total karma. Sorcs are exactly 8 karma, and can't take an extended subguild (their subguild is one of the mundane classes). A Whiran/Outdoorsman would be 9.

[Nyr]

Not quite the case.  See http://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,48618.0.html for details on how that works.

If you have 6 karma you could (if you wanted to) apply for a 6 karma guild and an extended subguild.

Playable sorcerers are now 8 karma roles in which the main guild is a mundane guild and the subguild is the specific type of sorcerer they are.  An 8 karma player could apply for a sorcerer and 3 skill bumps.

[Clearsighted]

Not quite the case.  See http://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,48618.0.html for details on how that works.

If you have 6 karma you could (if you wanted to) apply for a 6 karma guild and an extended subguild.

Playable sorcerers are now 8 karma roles in which the main guild is a mundane guild and the subguild is the specific type of sorcerer they are.  An 8 karma player could apply for a sorcerer and 3 skill bumps.

Interesting. Thanks!

[Asmoth]

Not quite the case.  See http://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,48618.0.html for details on how that works.

If you have 6 karma you could (if you wanted to) apply for a 6 karma guild and an extended subguild.

Playable sorcerers are now 8 karma roles in which the main guild is a mundane guild and the subguild is the specific type of sorcerer they are.  An 8 karma player could apply for a sorcerer and 3 skill bumps.

I honestly wouldn't know what to BUMP as I don't know all that much about survivability outside of rangers.

Unless you can simply bump the hidden defense stat/skill.

[HavokBlue]

You can't bump offense or defense.

You can accomplish something similar to what you want with the new extended subguilds like Aggressor etc. Its less frightening to give a mage some combat capability than it is to give a 30 day warrior a short but useful spell list.

[Patuk]

This would break the game so hard it's not even funny.

[RogueGunslinger]

 It would be more powerful than extended subguilds, yes. It's even more powerful than the sorcerer subguilds. Probably more powerful than full sorcerers used to be.

I say do it, but only if you make it high karma. Also just get rid of subguilds and add something like 5+karma to dual-class.

Everyone gets to be a god.

[Delirium]

Probably more powerful than full sorcerers used to be.

Bless your honeysuckle heart.

[Asmoth]

It would be more powerful than extended subguilds, yes. It's even more powerful than the sorcerer subguilds. Probably more powerful than full sorcerers used to be.

I say do it, but only if you make it high karma. Also just get rid of subguilds and add something like 5+karma to dual-class.

Everyone gets to be a god.

Help gather seems like it would be better than run of the mill Elementalists.

[Ender]

Probably more powerful than full sorcerers used to be.

LOL, no.

[RogueGunslinger]

Maybe powerful is the wrong word. In a sense of raw ability, variety, and how the IC gameworld represents it, Sorcerers will always be more powerful. But when it comes to the OOC metagame of armageddon you don't need 100 different flashy ways to basically accomplish the same 10 tasks. Offense, defense, and a few different utility skills are pretty much the only things you need to cover, everything else is just thematic icing on the roleplay cake. Add in the ability to now realistically blend in anywhere and you've got yourself an incredibly potent class that has a lot more avenues and opportunities to be effectual.

[Riev]

Old Sorcerers, like Miley Cyrus, had the Best Of Both Worlds.

[wizturbo]

Make no mistake, any of the Elementalists can be wickedly powerful without any extended subguild, and with relatively less time investment than a combat mundane class.  Nothing needs to be done to make elementalists more playable, it just takes some practice and perhaps some teaching to learn how to develop.  The thought of giving an elementalist a full spell list, plus a full mundane guild, sounds over the top powerful to me.  An elementalist subguild would be totally awesome though, as it would be fun to play a mundane with a touch of elementalism, instead of a elementalist with a touch of mundane.

[Marauder Moe]

Miley Cyrus is a sorcerer??

[Jihelu]

I was going to say something about how mundanes secretly had all the power but then I thought about some of the spells in game and went "Lol I'm a liar"

If anything you could just 'become' a sorcerer from the things I've read on the site, though it doesn't sound easy. Considering you know. Social stigma. Finding appropriate X, etc.
The lust for power!


*On a side note I still have like 15 days to kill Muk....damnit!*

[Delirium]

You can't become a sorcerer through play, even a sub-guild sorcerer, unless you rolled up your character that way.

That's something that's happened in the past but will not happen again.

Or so I was told.

[Jihelu]

You can't become a sorcerer through play, even a sub-guild sorcerer, unless you rolled up your character that way.

That's something that's happened in the past but will not happen again.

Or so I was told.

Wait really.
I could have SWORN I read someone, maybe an admin probably not, saying something in a thread like "Why don't you just go out and become one!!!!!"
I guess thats not a thing anymore.

A bit dissapointing I suppose.

[wizturbo]

You can't become a sorcerer through play, even a sub-guild sorcerer, unless you rolled up your character that way.

That's something that's happened in the past but will not happen again.

Or so I was told.

Well at least with the sorc subguild you can play a normal mundane, and if you want to slip to the dark side and roleplay learning dark powers you can.  Incentive for Karma 8 people to always choose a sorc subguild whenever they play a mundane?  

[Jihelu]

You can't become a sorcerer through play, even a sub-guild sorcerer, unless you rolled up your character that way.

That's something that's happened in the past but will not happen again.

Or so I was told.

Well at least with the sorc subguild you can play a normal mundane, and if you want to slip to the dark side and roleplay learning dark powers you can.  Incentive for Karma 8 people to always choose a sorc subguild whenever they play a mundane?  

Hard to learn dark powers tho.

[Asmoth]

Don't you still get the email saying these are your starting wicked powers.

[BadSkeelz]

Yes, but you're under no obligation to immediately start gathering in the Gaj and mon un explosionate Vennat. (He would fuck you up anyway.)

[wizturbo]

Don't you still get the email saying these are your starting wicked powers.

Delete the email, pretend your character never received it, uncover dark powers through your own dark, wicked, darkness, evil machinations.  

[Asmoth]

Yes, but you're under no obligation to immediately start gathering in the Gaj and mon un explosionate Vennat. (He would fuck you up anyway.)

I saw Vennat knock someone out in like two punches when a noob attacked him once.  He's a secret mul with a wig.

[Jihelu]

Yes, but you're under no obligation to immediately start gathering in the Gaj and mon un explosionate Vennat. (He would fuck you up anyway.)

I saw Vennat knock someone out in like two punches when a noob attacked him once.  He's a secret mul with a wig.

Secretly Tek

[Beethoven]

You can't become a sorcerer through play, even a sub-guild sorcerer, unless you rolled up your character that way.

That's something that's happened in the past but will not happen again.

Or so I was told.

I know this is almost certainly true, but I prefer to believe and behave as if it's not.

[TheWanderer]

One dusty, forlorn tome to rule them all.

[Delirium]

You can't become a sorcerer through play, even a sub-guild sorcerer, unless you rolled up your character that way.

That's something that's happened in the past but will not happen again.

Or so I was told.

I know this is almost certainly true, but I prefer to believe and behave as if it's not.

You're welcome and even encouraged to act as if there are no OOC limitations on your character.

But the simple fact is that if you OOCly believe your character will ever become X, Y, or Z that they aren't,

or accomplish X, Y, or Z that they OOCly can't,

you're in for a bad time.

[Delirium]

Don't you still get the email saying these are your starting wicked powers.

Delete the email, pretend your character never received it, uncover dark powers through your own dark, wicked, darkness, evil machinations.  

Certain consequences may crop up from simply having those skills even if you've never once "manifested" their use IC.

Not to mention, sometimes character's stories grow organically in ways you never expected, and you can't possibly anticipate that.

I see what you're saying, but that's not exactly a cure-all. You're also sacrificing some subguild flexibility for an unlikely possibility unless it is your concept to eventually become a subguild sorcerer - if it's not your original concept, why would you choose those abilities?

[Beethoven]

You're welcome and even encouraged to act as if there are no OOC limitations on your character.

But the simple fact is that if you OOCly believe your character will ever become X, Y, or Z that they aren't,

or accomplish X, Y, or Z that they OOCly can't,

you're in for a bad time.

No, I seriously want to OOCly believe it's possible. I'll probably never pursue that plotline, so it'll probably never be a problem, but if I do, I like to think there's some distant chance, so remote it's almost not there, that I might be allowed to attain my goal. When I fail, I won't be disappointed because I didn't have any expectations to succeed, but I really do want to think there's a nonzero chance.

[Delirium]

[AdamBlue]

Maybe very simple magick subguilds. So instead of being a master of an element, one could be elementally inclined.

Which means that an admin would have to activate your abilities instead of you naturally getting them. This means you wouldn't activate until an admin determined enough time had passed or your character came into a spot of incredible danger. And when they are activated, you start from the absolute bottom and have the absolute weakest ability that you could possibly garnish, with a defined limit on how high you can get. You will never be a master of the elements like an elementalist can become and your mana pool would be extremely small, but maybe you'd be able to do a few simple things in an emergency. A viv inclined person may be able to heal someone's wound in a sudden emergency, and may not even understand how they did it. Or they'd be in the desert, incredibly thirsty, when suddenly their flask is full of ice cold water. Or a rukkian could be in battle with dozens of enemies, and he finds this incredible strength out of nowhere, perhaps, or that his enemies strikes suddenly bounce off. A whiran-inclined may be a professional acrobat, who can nearly fly through the air with how limber their limbs allow them to clamber, and a Krathi may find himself unbothered by the heat of the sun.

Even if it doesn't give direct abilities, some passive bonuses would be pretty cool.

[Synthesis]

Magick subguilds would be about impossible to balance, which is why the sorc subguilds are 8 karma.

[AdamBlue]

Magick subguilds would be about impossible to balance, which is why the sorc subguilds are 8 karma.

Then just have it be the passive bonuses. Nothing to do spells, perhaps only slightly magical at all with no control over it.

[Jihelu]

Make it so all spells you cast have random targets.
Ez nerf.

[wizturbo]

No, I seriously want to OOCly believe it's possible. I'll probably never pursue that plotline, so it'll probably never be a problem, but if I do, I like to think there's some distant chance, so remote it's almost not there, that I might be allowed to attain my goal. When I fail, I won't be disappointed because I didn't have any expectations to succeed, but I really do want to think there's a nonzero chance.

I share this opinion.   Look how many things have changed in the last year that we never thought would change?  What's to say this isn't something that couldn't be reconsidered?

[Delirium]

Look at the direction the game has been going over the last few years.

Every single change has been to reduce the potential power of a playable character, not increase.

Feel free to be pointlessly optimistic and get your hopes dashed - I'll continue to set realistic goals that are well below the glass ceiling.

I've spent the last few years bashing against that glass ceiling for the sake of telling my stories, and all it gets you is frustration and heartache.

I'm much more content now that I've simply accepted things the way they are.

[wizturbo]

Certain consequences may crop up from simply having those skills even if you've never once "manifested" their use IC.

Not to mention, sometimes character's stories grow organically in ways you never expected, and you can't possibly anticipate that.

I see what you're saying, but that's not exactly a cure-all. You're also sacrificing some subguild flexibility for an unlikely possibility unless it is your concept to eventually become a subguild sorcerer - if it's not your original concept, why would you choose those abilities?

It's the same thing as playing an unmanifested elementalist.  I bet you could even put in a staff request to have 'gather' removed from you skill list until a time where you ICly discover your ability to use it.  

Losing your subguild would kinda suck, I agree, but there are plenty of guilds that are pretty well rounded that might not feel too punitive to play without one?

Obviously I prefer the "let people become sorcerers in super rare, but ICly realistic scenarios"...but if the current answer to that is NO then at least there's some workaround for the karma-gifted among us?

[Delirium]

You kinda missed my point about it rarely being a pre-mediated concept.

For pre-mediated concepts, I totally agree that it sounds interesting and like something worth considering.

[Jihelu]

Certain consequences may crop up from simply having those skills even if you've never once "manifested" their use IC.

Not to mention, sometimes character's stories grow organically in ways you never expected, and you can't possibly anticipate that.

I see what you're saying, but that's not exactly a cure-all. You're also sacrificing some subguild flexibility for an unlikely possibility unless it is your concept to eventually become a subguild sorcerer - if it's not your original concept, why would you choose those abilities?

It's the same thing as playing an unmanifested elementalist.  I bet you could even put in a staff request to have 'gather' removed from you skill list until a time where you ICly discover your ability to use it.  

Losing your subguild would kinda suck, I agree, but there are plenty of guilds that are pretty well rounded that might not feel too punitive to play without one?

Obviously I prefer the "let people become sorcerers in super rare, but ICly realistic scenarios"...but if the current answer to that is NO then at least there's some workaround for the karma-gifted among us?

Wouldn't that be impossible?
Then again that might be a bit too ic.

[wizturbo]

Look at the direction the game has been going over the last few years.

Every single change has been to reduce the potential power of a playable character, not increase.

I agree that player character coded potential power has been reduced with most of these changes, but average player power has been increased through extended subguilds, skill bumps, and sponsored roles starting with some 'oomph' to them.  While I definitely mourn the loss of potential power at the top (as I've wanted to play such a character someday), having the average power increase seems like a good thing.  They taketh with one hand, and give with another...  better than just take I guess?

However, if you want to interpret what you said from a different semantics perspective, I've seen a dramatic increase in potential plot power in the hands of players.  I noticed this even before Tuluk closed.  I've seen multiple situations where player characters have made choices with regional consequences over the last few months.   I don't know if that's been the case all along, or if it's just a product of the perspective my last couple of PCs, but I think it's pretty awesome.  

With all that said, I still think it's dumb for PCs to be unable to learn sorcery if highly IC circumstances (and the appropriate karma) creates the opportunity.  I hope this is reconsidered if it's actually the case.

[HavokBlue]

Guys.

If your mundane, non-sorc subguilded PC over the course of many years ends up trying to learn about sorcery or gets possessed by the spirit of a defiler from that ring you really shouldn't have put on or whatever, odd are you will not suddenly develop coded sorcery.

That is not to say 100% that it will never, ever, happen because things change and things occur on a case by case basis. But if you push staff hard for an ultimatum on this, I'm pretty sure they're more likely to say "No, this does not happen." as opposed to "Yeah, sometimes, maybe possibly."

[wizturbo]

I tend to believe Delirium that the current policy is just "No", but I hope that can be revisited.

[Beethoven]

I tend to believe Delirium that the current policy is just "No", but I hope that can be revisited.

Likewise. It removes some wonder from the game to know this isn't possible under any circumstances, which is why I prefer to believe in that spark of hope: that if you do just well enough, the staff just might consider it. Denial? Probably. But it's just depressing for me to think that it can never happen again, period. It's such a crucial point of flavor in the game that sorcery, the most powerful magick in Zalanthas, is learned, and that certain power hungry individuals will seek out that power despite the consequences. I like the idea that you can kind of imitate this with the sorcerer subguilds, but I really do want to think that this thing can happen at a crossroads in a character's life rather than it having to be planned from the very start.

[Riev]

Basically, what I'm getting from the current discussion now is "I sure wish the game world worked the way I assume it would work."

Much as I hate to believe what Delerium says on point alone, she's right. This isn't the 40person game that lets a few people work on cool stories or be awesome at PvP. Gone are the days of bribing virtual camps of humans, taking them as slaves, or carrying around trunks full to the brim with obsidian coins. We're kind of at the point now where everyone either fights in the arena, dies to NPC mobs, or gets butthurt because someone tried to/succeeded in killing them. Want an RPT? Better not have anyone die. Should just have singing and drinking, because anything beyond that is going to rile up the (now) much larger playerbase into chasing "that one plot".

Sorcerors were this exact plot. The WHISPER of a full sorceror anywhere caused half the game to start into hunting mode, because anyone playing as a guild_sorceror was either a staffer, or an ex-staffer, with the occasional special application. Now, these staffer/ex-staffer avatars are a little less powerful as a whole, but you might never know who they are. Cue sudden mon un disintegrate life when you're mudsexing.

[Beethoven]

Basically, what I'm getting from the current discussion now is "I sure wish the game world worked the way I assume it would work."

Yeah, kind of, and I admit as much.

[HavokBlue]

I tend to believe Delirium that the current policy is just "No", but I hope that can be revisited.

Likewise. It removes some wonder from the game to know this isn't possible under any circumstances, which is why I prefer to believe in that spark of hope: that if you do just well enough, the staff just might consider it. Denial? Probably. But it's just depressing for me to think that it can never happen again, period. It's such a crucial point of flavor in the game that sorcery, the most powerful magick in Zalanthas, is learned, and that certain power hungry individuals will seek out that power despite the consequences. I like the idea that you can kind of imitate this with the sorcerer subguilds, but I really do want to think that this thing can happen at a crossroads in a character's life rather than it having to be planned from the very start.

This is why I am saying if you choose to have a PC pursue this goal, you should do so with the OOC assumption that it will probably not result in your PC getting magick. And if it does? You can be pleasantly surprised and happy. And if it doesn't, you aren't let down.

[Beethoven]

Oh yeah, I'd definitely have that OOC assumption, as I've said before, but I'm not willing to give up my faint, childish spark of hope.

[Riev]

Basically, what I'm getting from the current discussion now is "I sure wish the game world worked the way I assume it would work."

Yeah, kind of, and I admit as much.

And I don't blame you a bit. Telling people that "sorcery isn't something you're born with, its something you acquire" in a roleplaying game... you can't fault a player for assuming it CAN be acquired.

[HavokBlue]

You can also acquire the ability to shoot a bow or climb a pile of rubble 

[Jihelu]

Wait a minute.

You can't even get certain non magick skills in game if you ask nicely/try to do it ic.

Oh god muh glass ceiling or something.

[valeria]

Sorcerors were this exact plot. The WHISPER of a full sorceror anywhere caused half the game to start into hunting mode, because anyone playing as a guild_sorceror was either a staffer, or an ex-staffer, with the occasional special application the game lore says that everyone hates and hunts sorcerers.

Fixed to add more benefit of the doubt! 

[Riev]

Sorcerors were this exact plot. The WHISPER of a full sorceror anywhere caused half the game to start into hunting mode, because anyone playing as a guild_sorceror was either a staffer, or an ex-staffer, with the occasional special application the game lore says that everyone hates and hunts sorcerers.

Fixed to add more benefit of the doubt! 

Nyaaahhhh!


Also, I have no specific qualms about the glass ceiling, its just hard to blame players (veteran or newbie) for believing that "it can be done". Though it reminds me of an old Malifaxis quote that is around somewhere... something about wanting to be the Mario of Plumbing, but really you're just Joe the Plumber. (Might have been about subguilds though)

[Talia]

Kind of a side note, but it IS related to the discussion of sorcerers: We do have a number of 8-karma players who are not on staff and have never been on staff. High-karma characters are not exclusively or even mostly played by staff or ex-staff in this era.

[Eurynomos]

And, playing on Staff isn't a guarantee of 8K, especially after leaving Staff. When I went to Legend most recently, my player account had not been magically bumped to 8K for me. It remained at its former level (25 karma, duh).

[Clearsighted]

Kind of a side note, but it IS related to the discussion of sorcerers: We do have a number of 8-karma players who are not on staff and have never been on staff. High-karma characters are not exclusively or even mostly played by staff or ex-staff in this era.

Armageddon is in a good place, lately. Although, I don't think enough people appreciate the fact that the sorcerer changes actually made them more powerful, and more playable, and more likely for a greater number of people to stick with it. It's no longer a 'Plainsman or Bust' model.

You have a legitimate chance of playing out a whole other life, that is invulnerable to guild sniffing, more or less.

[Delirium]

Subguild sniffing, the new guild sniffing.

[HavokBlue]

I like to pretend I have skills I don't have

"yeah you bet your fuckin ass I put an arrow in that motherfucker. oh, you uh, want me to take out that cilops? sorry man all out of arrows"

[Clearsighted]

I like to pretend I have skills I don't have

"yeah you bet your fuckin ass I put an arrow in that motherfucker. oh, you uh, want me to take out that cilops? sorry man all out of arrows"

It's funny because there really are PCs who have made entire careers out of this without ever having to back it up. Much like IRL, I suppose.

[Shoka Windrunner]

I always wished, for people who already had the karma, that they would have the option to opt in that their character MIGHT develop Elementalist powers. Probably some smaller subset of whatever element. (Like 2-4 spells down one branch or something)

Then have it random every character bday or activated by a watching staff during an appropriate piece of RP.

Just thought, it would be interesting to suddenly discover Sergeant Hardbutt is a Vivaduan and didnt know it until most of their unit is lying bleeding and dying on the floor.

Way more than becoming a sorcerer really. 

Edit: I kind of always saw this as how it manifested anywho.

[Barzalene]

Like a lottery of bad things!

[wizturbo]

Like a lottery of bad things!

Seriously. If you develop them, it's probably because something horrible happened.

[Barzalene]

I love the idea that you could opt in and maybe someday you'll find yourself with these abilities and liabilities you didn't ask for or expect. It might never happen. It might happen on a pc you really didn't want it to happen to. Or it might happen with a pc who bored you and suddenly there's a new aspect of play.
Like a bad things lottery.

[Rokal]

I always wished, for people who already had the karma, that they would have the option to opt in that their character MIGHT develop Elementalist powers. Probably some smaller subset of whatever element. (Like 2-4 spells down one branch or something)

Then have it random every character bday or activated by a watching staff during an appropriate piece of RP.

Just thought, it would be interesting to suddenly discover Sergeant Hardbutt is a Vivaduan and didnt know it until most of their unit is lying bleeding and dying on the floor.

Way more than becoming a sorcerer really. 

Edit: I kind of always saw this as how it manifested anywho.

This would be cool. THough i think its been mentioned before and people werent to keen on the idea.

[Beethoven]

I'm keen on it.

[Case]

Without trying to get myself moderated, there is at least one means of learning how to become a sorcerer I am aware of. It would require extreme luck. I know because I got that lucky once. It wasn't staff supported either.

The odds aren't great and you'd probably need a break. I think for people interested, it'd be something to premediate but they may need the karma to meet the current sorc subguilds anyway.

The rest of what is suggested regarding elementalists and partial manifestation is difficult for code reasons. It'd be a project to implement. There's a lot of entrenched cruft in the way guilds and skills work. Maybe if the partial elementalists had to gather mana too? That'd be one step to making it easier to code, if they were sorcs with an elemental bent.

[Clearsighted]

Without trying to get myself moderated, there is at least one means of learning how to become a sorcerer I am aware of. It would require extreme luck. I know because I got that lucky once. It wasn't staff supported either.

The odds aren't great and you'd probably need a break. I think for people interested, it'd be something to premediate but they may need the karma to meet the current sorc subguilds anyway.

The rest of what is suggested regarding elementalists and partial manifestation is difficult for code reasons. It'd be a project to implement. There's a lot of entrenched cruft in the way guilds and skills work. Maybe if the partial elementalists had to gather mana too? That'd be one step to making it easier to code, if they were sorcs with an elemental bent.

I'm 99.99% certain this isn't in the game anymore, if it's what I think it is. I'm pretty sure all current methods require staff support.

[jstorrie]

It's funny because there really are PCs who have made entire careers out of this without ever having to back it up. Much like IRL, I suppose.

my most favoritest PC was a maxed assassin who never killed a single person. because he was pretty chill. killin's for jerks. all he wanted was a good sandwich.

[Jihelu]

It's funny because there really are PCs who have made entire careers out of this without ever having to back it up. Much like IRL, I suppose.

my most favoritest PC was a maxed assassin who never killed a single person. because he was pretty chill. killin's for jerks. all he wanted was a good sandwich.

Master sap is op.