While reading a bit about Sorcerer change...

[Asmoth]

I started thinking, that would be fucking PERFECT if elementalists were a subguild.

Think about it, you could actually have a "sorta-sorc" type player who actually could do things when he or she didn't have mana.

Warrior/Water Elementalist = Yeah, that battle wound, I healed it.

Ranger/Electric Elementalist = Yeah who needs a mount, I'm a real ranger for the most part and not a desert elf, suck it.

ETC ETC.

It would add a whole different level to mundanes and make playing a rogue so much harder to sniff out through mundane means.

Of course you would have to change something, maybe not give X number of spells at Chargen, maybe only one, and have them branch differently?

I dunno, I think it would be awesome because realistically, there is nothing that says my Ranger who hasn't manifested and spent X years playing out in the sandbox would instantly lose every skill he's ever learned due to a sudden magick orgasm of power.

[BadSkeelz]

We discussed this somewhere in the Sorcerer change thread. Based on what's been pulled off with Elementalist/Extended Subguilds, it would be stupidly overpowered.

[Asmoth]

We discussed this somewhere in the Sorcerer change thread. Based on what's been pulled off with Elementalist/Extended Subguilds, it would be stupidly overpowered.

Possibly, but unless I'm misunderstanding how ext subguilds work, they are their own Karma requirement.

So say I wanna play Water Elementalist/WHATEVER THING (I honestly never even looked at the ext subguilds because of my understanding/misunderstanding of them).

I gotta have 5 karma, 2 for original guild, 3 for extra shit.

So if you have 1 Karma, you can't even do it in the normal spec app structure.

[valeria]

I agree that it would be extremely OP.  No thank you.  If you want something like that, you should put in a spec app so that staff can individually balance it.

[Jihelu]

So you have to ask staff if you can be a decent hunter while having the birth right of magic? "I'd like to have been born magickal but still have the common sense to be a hunter".
Sound meh. I kind of like the idea.

[BadSkeelz]

We discussed this somewhere in the Sorcerer change thread. Based on what's been pulled off with Elementalist/Extended Subguilds, it would be stupidly overpowered.

Possibly, but unless I'm misunderstanding how ext subguilds work, they are their own Karma requirement.

So say I wanna play Water Elementalist/WHATEVER THING (I honestly never even looked at the ext subguilds because of my understanding/misunderstanding of them).

I gotta have 5 karma, 2 for original guild, 3 for extra shit.

So if you have 1 Karma, you can't even do it in the normal spec app structure.

Extended Subguilds are kind of like main guilds, just pared down a bit. You're proposing combining the full power of an Elementalist guild with the full skills of a normal guild. This would be even more overpowered than current magicker+Extended subguild examples.

[Asmoth]

I'm just saying, I know that everytime I tried to play a rogue gicker (not many times actually) I was always sniffed out by lack of ability in the area I was going for.  Guard, couldn't fight worth a shit.  Ranger, couldn't skin worth a shit. etc.

Would make it easier for people to be secret abominations.

[BadSkeelz]

App an extended subguild. It'll help a little bit. Be OP, but it'll help with what you're trying to do.

Fuck magick otherwise.

[Asmoth]

App an extended subguild. It'll help a little bit. Be OP, but it'll help with what you're trying to do.

Fuck magick otherwise.

Keep in mind, I'm not one of those guys who just plays to chop mutha fuckas with bone swords.

My only complaint about magickers is the glass cannon way they are once the mana is gone.

So maybe one of those extended subguilds would make you more survivable.  I'll have to see what some good ones would be with water and ruks.

[Clearsighted]

You don't need any subguild to be more survivable than any warrior or ranger, with a viv or ruk. Even taking into account mana issues. (And I don't consider mana an 'issue', so much as a valiant stopgap against complete round the clock gicker domination).

Extended Subguilds and gickers are fine, so long as no special karma app is ever allowed to exceed 8 total karma. Sorcs are exactly 8 karma, and can't take an extended subguild (their subguild is one of the mundane classes). A Whiran/Outdoorsman would be 9.

[Nyr]

Not quite the case.  See http://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,48618.0.html for details on how that works.

If you have 6 karma you could (if you wanted to) apply for a 6 karma guild and an extended subguild.

Playable sorcerers are now 8 karma roles in which the main guild is a mundane guild and the subguild is the specific type of sorcerer they are.  An 8 karma player could apply for a sorcerer and 3 skill bumps.

[Clearsighted]

Not quite the case.  See http://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,48618.0.html for details on how that works.

If you have 6 karma you could (if you wanted to) apply for a 6 karma guild and an extended subguild.

Playable sorcerers are now 8 karma roles in which the main guild is a mundane guild and the subguild is the specific type of sorcerer they are.  An 8 karma player could apply for a sorcerer and 3 skill bumps.

Interesting. Thanks!

[Asmoth]

Not quite the case.  See http://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,48618.0.html for details on how that works.

If you have 6 karma you could (if you wanted to) apply for a 6 karma guild and an extended subguild.

Playable sorcerers are now 8 karma roles in which the main guild is a mundane guild and the subguild is the specific type of sorcerer they are.  An 8 karma player could apply for a sorcerer and 3 skill bumps.

I honestly wouldn't know what to BUMP as I don't know all that much about survivability outside of rangers.

Unless you can simply bump the hidden defense stat/skill.

[HavokBlue]

You can't bump offense or defense.

You can accomplish something similar to what you want with the new extended subguilds like Aggressor etc. Its less frightening to give a mage some combat capability than it is to give a 30 day warrior a short but useful spell list.

[Patuk]

This would break the game so hard it's not even funny.

[RogueGunslinger]

 It would be more powerful than extended subguilds, yes. It's even more powerful than the sorcerer subguilds. Probably more powerful than full sorcerers used to be.

I say do it, but only if you make it high karma. Also just get rid of subguilds and add something like 5+karma to dual-class.

Everyone gets to be a god.

[Delirium]

Probably more powerful than full sorcerers used to be.

Bless your honeysuckle heart.

[Asmoth]

It would be more powerful than extended subguilds, yes. It's even more powerful than the sorcerer subguilds. Probably more powerful than full sorcerers used to be.

I say do it, but only if you make it high karma. Also just get rid of subguilds and add something like 5+karma to dual-class.

Everyone gets to be a god.

Help gather seems like it would be better than run of the mill Elementalists.

[Ender]

Probably more powerful than full sorcerers used to be.

LOL, no.

[RogueGunslinger]

Maybe powerful is the wrong word. In a sense of raw ability, variety, and how the IC gameworld represents it, Sorcerers will always be more powerful. But when it comes to the OOC metagame of armageddon you don't need 100 different flashy ways to basically accomplish the same 10 tasks. Offense, defense, and a few different utility skills are pretty much the only things you need to cover, everything else is just thematic icing on the roleplay cake. Add in the ability to now realistically blend in anywhere and you've got yourself an incredibly potent class that has a lot more avenues and opportunities to be effectual.

[Riev]

Old Sorcerers, like Miley Cyrus, had the Best Of Both Worlds.

[wizturbo]

Make no mistake, any of the Elementalists can be wickedly powerful without any extended subguild, and with relatively less time investment than a combat mundane class.  Nothing needs to be done to make elementalists more playable, it just takes some practice and perhaps some teaching to learn how to develop.  The thought of giving an elementalist a full spell list, plus a full mundane guild, sounds over the top powerful to me.  An elementalist subguild would be totally awesome though, as it would be fun to play a mundane with a touch of elementalism, instead of a elementalist with a touch of mundane.

[Marauder Moe]

Miley Cyrus is a sorcerer??

[Jihelu]

I was going to say something about how mundanes secretly had all the power but then I thought about some of the spells in game and went "Lol I'm a liar"

If anything you could just 'become' a sorcerer from the things I've read on the site, though it doesn't sound easy. Considering you know. Social stigma. Finding appropriate X, etc.
The lust for power!


*On a side note I still have like 15 days to kill Muk....damnit!*

[Delirium]

You can't become a sorcerer through play, even a sub-guild sorcerer, unless you rolled up your character that way.

That's something that's happened in the past but will not happen again.

Or so I was told.