While reading a bit about Sorcerer change...

[Jihelu]

You can't become a sorcerer through play, even a sub-guild sorcerer, unless you rolled up your character that way.

That's something that's happened in the past but will not happen again.

Or so I was told.

Wait really.
I could have SWORN I read someone, maybe an admin probably not, saying something in a thread like "Why don't you just go out and become one!!!!!"
I guess thats not a thing anymore.

A bit dissapointing I suppose.

[wizturbo]

You can't become a sorcerer through play, even a sub-guild sorcerer, unless you rolled up your character that way.

That's something that's happened in the past but will not happen again.

Or so I was told.

Well at least with the sorc subguild you can play a normal mundane, and if you want to slip to the dark side and roleplay learning dark powers you can.  Incentive for Karma 8 people to always choose a sorc subguild whenever they play a mundane?  

[Jihelu]

You can't become a sorcerer through play, even a sub-guild sorcerer, unless you rolled up your character that way.

That's something that's happened in the past but will not happen again.

Or so I was told.

Well at least with the sorc subguild you can play a normal mundane, and if you want to slip to the dark side and roleplay learning dark powers you can.  Incentive for Karma 8 people to always choose a sorc subguild whenever they play a mundane?  

Hard to learn dark powers tho.

[Asmoth]

Don't you still get the email saying these are your starting wicked powers.

[BadSkeelz]

Yes, but you're under no obligation to immediately start gathering in the Gaj and mon un explosionate Vennat. (He would fuck you up anyway.)

[wizturbo]

Don't you still get the email saying these are your starting wicked powers.

Delete the email, pretend your character never received it, uncover dark powers through your own dark, wicked, darkness, evil machinations.  

[Asmoth]

Yes, but you're under no obligation to immediately start gathering in the Gaj and mon un explosionate Vennat. (He would fuck you up anyway.)

I saw Vennat knock someone out in like two punches when a noob attacked him once.  He's a secret mul with a wig.

[Jihelu]

Yes, but you're under no obligation to immediately start gathering in the Gaj and mon un explosionate Vennat. (He would fuck you up anyway.)

I saw Vennat knock someone out in like two punches when a noob attacked him once.  He's a secret mul with a wig.

Secretly Tek

[Beethoven]

You can't become a sorcerer through play, even a sub-guild sorcerer, unless you rolled up your character that way.

That's something that's happened in the past but will not happen again.

Or so I was told.

I know this is almost certainly true, but I prefer to believe and behave as if it's not.

[TheWanderer]

One dusty, forlorn tome to rule them all.

[Delirium]

You can't become a sorcerer through play, even a sub-guild sorcerer, unless you rolled up your character that way.

That's something that's happened in the past but will not happen again.

Or so I was told.

I know this is almost certainly true, but I prefer to believe and behave as if it's not.

You're welcome and even encouraged to act as if there are no OOC limitations on your character.

But the simple fact is that if you OOCly believe your character will ever become X, Y, or Z that they aren't,

or accomplish X, Y, or Z that they OOCly can't,

you're in for a bad time.

[Delirium]

Don't you still get the email saying these are your starting wicked powers.

Delete the email, pretend your character never received it, uncover dark powers through your own dark, wicked, darkness, evil machinations.  

Certain consequences may crop up from simply having those skills even if you've never once "manifested" their use IC.

Not to mention, sometimes character's stories grow organically in ways you never expected, and you can't possibly anticipate that.

I see what you're saying, but that's not exactly a cure-all. You're also sacrificing some subguild flexibility for an unlikely possibility unless it is your concept to eventually become a subguild sorcerer - if it's not your original concept, why would you choose those abilities?

[Beethoven]

You're welcome and even encouraged to act as if there are no OOC limitations on your character.

But the simple fact is that if you OOCly believe your character will ever become X, Y, or Z that they aren't,

or accomplish X, Y, or Z that they OOCly can't,

you're in for a bad time.

No, I seriously want to OOCly believe it's possible. I'll probably never pursue that plotline, so it'll probably never be a problem, but if I do, I like to think there's some distant chance, so remote it's almost not there, that I might be allowed to attain my goal. When I fail, I won't be disappointed because I didn't have any expectations to succeed, but I really do want to think there's a nonzero chance.

[Delirium]

[AdamBlue]

Maybe very simple magick subguilds. So instead of being a master of an element, one could be elementally inclined.

Which means that an admin would have to activate your abilities instead of you naturally getting them. This means you wouldn't activate until an admin determined enough time had passed or your character came into a spot of incredible danger. And when they are activated, you start from the absolute bottom and have the absolute weakest ability that you could possibly garnish, with a defined limit on how high you can get. You will never be a master of the elements like an elementalist can become and your mana pool would be extremely small, but maybe you'd be able to do a few simple things in an emergency. A viv inclined person may be able to heal someone's wound in a sudden emergency, and may not even understand how they did it. Or they'd be in the desert, incredibly thirsty, when suddenly their flask is full of ice cold water. Or a rukkian could be in battle with dozens of enemies, and he finds this incredible strength out of nowhere, perhaps, or that his enemies strikes suddenly bounce off. A whiran-inclined may be a professional acrobat, who can nearly fly through the air with how limber their limbs allow them to clamber, and a Krathi may find himself unbothered by the heat of the sun.

Even if it doesn't give direct abilities, some passive bonuses would be pretty cool.

[Synthesis]

Magick subguilds would be about impossible to balance, which is why the sorc subguilds are 8 karma.

[AdamBlue]

Magick subguilds would be about impossible to balance, which is why the sorc subguilds are 8 karma.

Then just have it be the passive bonuses. Nothing to do spells, perhaps only slightly magical at all with no control over it.

[Jihelu]

Make it so all spells you cast have random targets.
Ez nerf.

[wizturbo]

No, I seriously want to OOCly believe it's possible. I'll probably never pursue that plotline, so it'll probably never be a problem, but if I do, I like to think there's some distant chance, so remote it's almost not there, that I might be allowed to attain my goal. When I fail, I won't be disappointed because I didn't have any expectations to succeed, but I really do want to think there's a nonzero chance.

I share this opinion.   Look how many things have changed in the last year that we never thought would change?  What's to say this isn't something that couldn't be reconsidered?

[Delirium]

Look at the direction the game has been going over the last few years.

Every single change has been to reduce the potential power of a playable character, not increase.

Feel free to be pointlessly optimistic and get your hopes dashed - I'll continue to set realistic goals that are well below the glass ceiling.

I've spent the last few years bashing against that glass ceiling for the sake of telling my stories, and all it gets you is frustration and heartache.

I'm much more content now that I've simply accepted things the way they are.

[wizturbo]

Certain consequences may crop up from simply having those skills even if you've never once "manifested" their use IC.

Not to mention, sometimes character's stories grow organically in ways you never expected, and you can't possibly anticipate that.

I see what you're saying, but that's not exactly a cure-all. You're also sacrificing some subguild flexibility for an unlikely possibility unless it is your concept to eventually become a subguild sorcerer - if it's not your original concept, why would you choose those abilities?

It's the same thing as playing an unmanifested elementalist.  I bet you could even put in a staff request to have 'gather' removed from you skill list until a time where you ICly discover your ability to use it.  

Losing your subguild would kinda suck, I agree, but there are plenty of guilds that are pretty well rounded that might not feel too punitive to play without one?

Obviously I prefer the "let people become sorcerers in super rare, but ICly realistic scenarios"...but if the current answer to that is NO then at least there's some workaround for the karma-gifted among us?

[Delirium]

You kinda missed my point about it rarely being a pre-mediated concept.

For pre-mediated concepts, I totally agree that it sounds interesting and like something worth considering.

[Jihelu]

Certain consequences may crop up from simply having those skills even if you've never once "manifested" their use IC.

Not to mention, sometimes character's stories grow organically in ways you never expected, and you can't possibly anticipate that.

I see what you're saying, but that's not exactly a cure-all. You're also sacrificing some subguild flexibility for an unlikely possibility unless it is your concept to eventually become a subguild sorcerer - if it's not your original concept, why would you choose those abilities?

It's the same thing as playing an unmanifested elementalist.  I bet you could even put in a staff request to have 'gather' removed from you skill list until a time where you ICly discover your ability to use it.  

Losing your subguild would kinda suck, I agree, but there are plenty of guilds that are pretty well rounded that might not feel too punitive to play without one?

Obviously I prefer the "let people become sorcerers in super rare, but ICly realistic scenarios"...but if the current answer to that is NO then at least there's some workaround for the karma-gifted among us?

Wouldn't that be impossible?
Then again that might be a bit too ic.

[wizturbo]

Look at the direction the game has been going over the last few years.

Every single change has been to reduce the potential power of a playable character, not increase.

I agree that player character coded potential power has been reduced with most of these changes, but average player power has been increased through extended subguilds, skill bumps, and sponsored roles starting with some 'oomph' to them.  While I definitely mourn the loss of potential power at the top (as I've wanted to play such a character someday), having the average power increase seems like a good thing.  They taketh with one hand, and give with another...  better than just take I guess?

However, if you want to interpret what you said from a different semantics perspective, I've seen a dramatic increase in potential plot power in the hands of players.  I noticed this even before Tuluk closed.  I've seen multiple situations where player characters have made choices with regional consequences over the last few months.   I don't know if that's been the case all along, or if it's just a product of the perspective my last couple of PCs, but I think it's pretty awesome.  

With all that said, I still think it's dumb for PCs to be unable to learn sorcery if highly IC circumstances (and the appropriate karma) creates the opportunity.  I hope this is reconsidered if it's actually the case.

[HavokBlue]

Guys.

If your mundane, non-sorc subguilded PC over the course of many years ends up trying to learn about sorcery or gets possessed by the spirit of a defiler from that ring you really shouldn't have put on or whatever, odd are you will not suddenly develop coded sorcery.

That is not to say 100% that it will never, ever, happen because things change and things occur on a case by case basis. But if you push staff hard for an ultimatum on this, I'm pretty sure they're more likely to say "No, this does not happen." as opposed to "Yeah, sometimes, maybe possibly."